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Washington state gets rid of "sexist" language
 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2013-07-10 09:19:50
Phoenix.Melpomenae said: »I'm still waiting for you to point out my super emotional arguments here. Quote: Feminism helps men. The patriarchy hurts men, too... so it does hurt men? please tell me more because this is not even going to be an argument.
Quote: It's not like this cost a shitton of money to do or anything, it's an olive branch of respect towards women in general. It's more a symbol of equality than anything else. If you have a problem with this, I'd wager a bet you have underlying problems against women in general. non-sensical bragging about olive branches? what kind of point do you not get when you make comparisons like that'? this is how women argue. And that is why you are not putting out an argument that makes sense in this whole quote
Quote: For real, can't you see that -hurtful stereotypes against women- are the cause of all that crap you posted above (from silly sketchy sources, but whatever)
Women don't often get charged with sex crimes because of the stereotype that women aren't sexual creatures and therefore aren't likely rapists- and that if they did rape a boy, that men "can't be raped cause real men enjoy sex with women no matter how they get it." do you even read your posts before you post them? i was almost close to cry and laugh at the same time. you sound like a 12 year old "try-too-hard".
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2013-07-10 09:20:11
Well, I guess me and my penis will have to push for gender equality elsewhere then. :<
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-10 09:20:23
Mostly from female friends (inb4whiteknight) I've learned about feminism from. No one you'll see a youtube video about. True feminism, by the way, not the extreme manhating victim playing you're all talking about and assuming (and thus generalizing) most feminist do.
So, I can't provide a source.
And thus why I've been saying "THEORETICALLY feminism is a wonderful movement." I'm well aware there are some very outspoken manhating victim playing women acting under the banner of feminism.
Those people are not under the banner, their the ones HOLDING THE DAMN BANNER. They are the leaders, the high priestess's, the Presidents and the ones setting policy and agenda for the entire movement.
Their the ones pushing anti-male legislation, their the ones shaming and emasculating men. Their the ones going on international television and encouraging women to blame men for all their problems and failed aspirations. Their the ones telling women everywhere that "men are no good" and that "you don't need men".
And your female friends support them. Listen and see if even a single one of your "friends" ever speaks out against the extreme high priestess. If they ever stand up in front of a feminist rally and speak against the anti-male leader who just got finished spreading more hate.
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By fonewear 2013-07-10 09:21:46
Feminists have friends that is news to me. I thought women secretly hated each other.
Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2013-07-10 09:23:39
And I'll bet the MHRM will eventually have "members" doing the same ***as the "feminist" you're talking about. If with a different twist.
People will always take things to extremes. those guys are worse than white knights.
i am not against men standing up for their rights. But i am against the two-faced leaders like Paul Elam who have poisoned the movement by encouraging the emasculation of men. These leaders don't realize that men and women have different gender functions dictated by their biology. Like feminists, they too want to artificially force men and women to play the exact same roles.
It's telling enough that these MRA and MGTOW cowards fear public scrutiny of their views and will only speak behind people's backs.
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-10 09:24:32
They spread hate so we shall too! lol...
Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2013-07-10 09:26:44
***. If you expect me to believe every single leader of the movement acts like that, you're off your damn rocker. The extreme ones are the loudest and the most noticed. So naturally it's going to seem like they're the only ones pushing for anything.
By the way "acting under the banner" meant the leaders, genius. They're the ones that get the most media coverage, set up rallies, etc...
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-10 09:29:00
Hamster all you want, I have yet to see a feminist call out one of their own high priestess's.
And Corres sounds like he's been unplugged.
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-10 09:31:02
Phoenix.Melpomenae said: »I'm still waiting for you to point out my super emotional arguments here. Quote: Feminism helps men. The patriarchy hurts men, too... so it does hurt men? please tell me more because this is not even going to be an argument.
Quote: It's not like this cost a shitton of money to do or anything, it's an olive branch of respect towards women in general. It's more a symbol of equality than anything else. If you have a problem with this, I'd wager a bet you have underlying problems against women in general. non-sensical bragging about olive branches? what kind of point do you not get when you make comparisons like that'? this is how women argue. And that is why you are not putting out an argument that makes sense in this whole quote
Quote: For real, can't you see that -hurtful stereotypes against women- are the cause of all that crap you posted above (from silly sketchy sources, but whatever)
Women don't often get charged with sex crimes because of the stereotype that women aren't sexual creatures and therefore aren't likely rapists- and that if they did rape a boy, that men "can't be raped cause real men enjoy sex with women no matter how they get it." do you even read your posts before you post them? i was almost close to cry and laugh at the same time. you sound like a 12 year old "try-too-hard".
So wait.
Out of EVERYTHING I posted, you're picking apart the stuff that's defending men? Every single bit that you bolded was in a context of "Things that are hurting men and how these same things hurt women, too".
You're picking out random sentences that have words sometimes relating to emotions to try and skew them to look emotional, lol.
I guess it's easier to come ahead in a debate if anything a woman says is immediately "emotional". (never mind the fallacy that emotional arguements are somehow inferior)
("Olive branch" is a saying referring to a gesture of peace, btw, since you didn't seem to understand that.)
See, if you'd actually read anything I've typed, I've noted several examples of unequality on the male side and how it relates to unequality for women, but you're conveniently ignoring that.
Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2013-07-10 09:31:16
Hamster all you want, I have yet to see a feminist call out one of their own high priestess's.
And Corres sounds like he's been unplugged. don't quite get that. meaning i was in that movement and then turned against them? couldn't be further from the truth.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-10 09:39:03
Hamster all you want, I have yet to see a feminist call out one of their own high priestess's.
And Corres sounds like he's been unplugged. don't quite get that. meaning i was in that movement and then turned against them? couldn't be further from the truth.
Check your PM, it'll explain everything. See how far down the rabbit hole goes.
By Vudoku 2013-07-10 09:40:09
There is no misogyny in anything he said. I've read over it and see no hateful language towards females. Defaulting to "IT's MISOGYNY!!101010" to any statement you disagree with isn't very conducive to rational debate.
The article is mostly inane, just changing commonly neutral words to be more "politically correct". Personally don't care the idea is always more important then the words it's couched in. But hey let us know how that white knighting works for ya.
He used feminism like it was an insult, called government officials *** for trying to be gender-inclusive, and felt personally maligned by groups pushing back against rape culture. You may find the language perfectly acceptable, but I think many would feel uncomfortable with OP's wording and his implications.
I, and most other humans, couldn't care less about your "comfort" level. Terms like misogyny / misoandry have nothing to do with how the receiver feels and instead are about someone expressing hateful feelings. It's only misogyny if he (or she) feels / express's hatred (not anger) towards women (not government / policies / institutions). The term misogyny has converted into a male shaming tactic by white knights everywhere.
Now in case you haven't looked outside your liberal echo chambers, there is a movement amongst successful men to avoid the entire feminist trap. Look up MGTOW and MRM. Equality swings both directions.
Why do you refer to a liberal echo chamber? IF you are as enlightened as you say, prove me wrong with this challenge. Listen to right wing radio for 12 hours then listen to left wing radio for 12 hours, and tell me where the echo chamber resides!
By Drjones 2013-07-10 09:40:53
There's a whole lot of No True Scotsman going on in this thread.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-10 09:50:08
There is no misogyny in anything he said. I've read over it and see no hateful language towards females. Defaulting to "IT's MISOGYNY!!101010" to any statement you disagree with isn't very conducive to rational debate.
The article is mostly inane, just changing commonly neutral words to be more "politically correct". Personally don't care the idea is always more important then the words it's couched in. But hey let us know how that white knighting works for ya.
He used feminism like it was an insult, called government officials *** for trying to be gender-inclusive, and felt personally maligned by groups pushing back against rape culture. You may find the language perfectly acceptable, but I think many would feel uncomfortable with OP's wording and his implications.
I, and most other humans, couldn't care less about your "comfort" level. Terms like misogyny / misoandry have nothing to do with how the receiver feels and instead are about someone expressing hateful feelings. It's only misogyny if he (or she) feels / express's hatred (not anger) towards women (not government / policies / institutions). The term misogyny has converted into a male shaming tactic by white knights everywhere.
Now in case you haven't looked outside your liberal echo chambers, there is a movement amongst successful men to avoid the entire feminist trap. Look up MGTOW and MRM. Equality swings both directions.
Why do you refer to a liberal echo chamber? IF you are as enlightened as you say, prove me wrong with this challenge. Listen to right wing radio for 12 hours then listen to left wing radio for 12 hours, and tell me where the echo chamber resides!
Both are equally guilty of being echo chambers. Liberals just tend to congregate on internet forums more often then conservatives do.
I'm neither liberal nor conservative, I'm a moderate independent. The ultimate hated foe of both groups.
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-10 09:52:07
no coherent argument given about whyx it hurts men. Anything more than stereotypical counting of "I'MA MAN" is not in your post.
Childhood illiteracy seems to be a bigger problem than I thought :(
Quote: can someone please spank you?
You're *** disgusting. This is harassment.
Quote: Emotional argumentation is about the tone or feel it persuades as it is spoken out. This is nonsense though, you're thinking like a chick with this mindset. You're only paying attention to the emotions exchanged between the two sides, not the ideas.
Men make emotional arguments all the time. My argument was never emotional, though, so this is a strawman. You bolded words I said to try and make it look like I was making a emotional plea, when in reality they were referring to something else.
Quote: Girls often abuse this tactic. It's an excuse to avoid the questioning at hand and it allows for an easy way out.
You're a condescending retard.
Quote: state to me an argument that is NOT based off on "well girls are being harassed because their skirt is too short" or any other crap. Point out an argument. Like the pay-gap-myth. Or maybe even domestic violence
I never based any argument on "girls getting harrassed cause their skirts are too short". I used it as an example of the mindset that men are hypersexual and can't be raped. I was arguing that male rape is a serious problem, and part of the reason it's ignored is the stereotype that men are animals. I'm not sure where your standpoint is. I only pointed out common things men seem to have to fight for that are frequently ignored- domestic abuse support, rape support, fairness in custody hearings. Are you arguing that these aren't problems for men?
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Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-07-10 09:56:44
>Make fun of a guy who clearly is english second language
>ignore the fact that your personal actions/beliefs dont represent feminism as a whole
>continue with the 'i support male rights' thing while making 0 attempt to progress male rights
i think we're done here
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Server: Phoenix
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-10 09:57:56
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »>Make fun of a guy who clearly is english second language
>ignore the fact that your personal actions/beliefs dont represent feminism as a whole
>continue with the 'i support male rights' thing while making 0 attempt to progress male rights
i think we're done here
I don't think there's a mistranslation for spank.
I commented on his illiteracy because he can't just read what I typed and comprehend it for what I'm actually saying, not what he wants it to say, not his typos.
By fonewear 2013-07-10 09:58:23
When I run out of good ideas I tend to bold words
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-07-10 10:00:43
Phoenix.Melpomenae said: »I don't think there's a mistranslation for spank. Melpomenae said: Childhood illiteracy seems to be a bigger problem than I thought :(
Hm.
Nah, can't be referring to that, has to be the obvious(and irrelevant) comment he threw in.
Nobody's going to defend Corres as a shining example of an intelligent and composed individual, but you're just going ad hominem on him at this point. Typical feminist tactic, attack the least relevant portion and leave the meat of the argument untouched.
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-10 10:02:40
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Phoenix.Melpomenae said: »I don't think there's a mistranslation for spank. Melpomenae said: Childhood illiteracy seems to be a bigger problem than I thought :(
Hm.
Nah, can't be referring to that, has to be the obvious(and irrelevant) comment he threw in.
Nobody's going to defend Corres as a shining example of an intelligent and composed individual, but you're just going ad hominem on him at this point.
I mentioned this above, but I meant that he needed to read my post and stop implying I'm saying something I was never saying. Not his typos.....and if English is his second language, I couldn't tell.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-07-10 10:05:40
Still ignoring key points:
-Your personal beliefs and actions don't represent feminism as a whole.
-Claiming to be in support of male rights offers nothing when all feminist events are targeted toward advancing female rights.
The German flag is a good indicator that English is not his first language, though even if it was poor education, that wouldn't really be his fault.
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Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-10 10:06:29
Quote: Nobody's going to defend Corres as a shining example of an intelligent and composed individual, but you're just going ad hominem on him at this point. Typical feminist tactic, attack the least relevant portion and leave the meat of the argument untouched.
This is why you don't debate with a feminist. The moment they turn it into an emotional argument you can't win because you can't make them feel they "lost". Best tactic is to just ignore them.
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By Bismarck.Longkissgnight 2013-07-10 10:06:57
Feminism is what sexists call anti-sexism.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-07-10 10:07:04
we have more female teachers who give male students worse grades because they are boys Huh???
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-10 10:09:43
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Still ignoring key points:
-Your personal beliefs and actions don't represent feminism as a whole.
-Claiming to be in support of male rights offers nothing when all feminist events are targeted toward advancing female rights.
The German flag is a good indicator that English is not his first language, though even if it was poor education, that wouldn't really be his fault.
I never disputed that my own beliefs are the whole of feminism. Just that it's not as rare a viewpoint as some think it is in the feminist circles. Hence my comment that anecdotal evidence should be taken with a grain of salt.
All feminist events are not targeted towards women's rights. My very first point was that some of these struggles are linked, and by eliminating them helps both genders. You've refused to comment on that.
I didn't even see the German flag. This is seriously the most I've ever posted on these forums after years of lurking. Excuse my mistake.
Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2013-07-10 10:10:16
we have more female teachers who give male students worse grades because they are boys Never encountered this. And most of my teachers were female too.
And again, feminist =/= man hater
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Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-07-10 10:11:36
Bismarck.Longkissgnight said: »Feminism is what sexists call anti-sexism. Compelling argument. Please source it, preferably with a few examples of feminism aiding in the current situation for males.
You don't have to consider the genders unequal to see that feminism is nowhere near a push for equality.
Quote: All feminist events are not targeted towards women's rights. My very first point was that some of these struggles are linked, and by eliminating them helps both genders. You've refused to comment on that. Incidentally aiding men(generally in a manner that men don't even want) does not make feminism a gender-equal organization. Feminists have 0 place to judge what men need or desire, and have no doubt that the motivation is not one of virtue. Increasing support for female rape victims and female violence victims does not inherently do the same for men. I'd really recommend watching the videos that saevel linked earlier by GirlWritesWhat, they're very informative and if you're looking to educate yourself on the issues I think you'll find it a refreshing use of your time.
Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2013-07-10 10:13:39
Phoenix.Melpomenae said: »I was arguing that male rape is a serious problem, and part of the reason it's ignored is the stereotype that men are animals. I'm not sure where your standpoint is. I only pointed out common things men seem to have to fight for that are frequently ignored- domestic abuse support, rape support, fairness in custody hearings. Are you arguing that these aren't problems for men? i never said anything against this in any post i did in this thread.
However, as you seem to be true to same respect for both genders i would like to know what exactlöy brought you upon the realisation that feminism is "equlality" for both genders?
i do not mean this in any disrespectful way, i am merely interested what drives your gears in a personal manner. as you stated those unfair treatments that men get in divorces, or that men get raped too but are seen as funny or not worthy of discussion, are real problems. They do however get pushed back and called unimportant by the very feminist leaders you seem to be holding onto.
This doesn't make sense to me.
It's like saying you are a chritian but you don't believe in the resurrection.
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By Bismarck.Longkissgnight 2013-07-10 10:14:48
we have more female teachers who give male students worse grades because they are boys Huh???
He's living on *** mountain, where everyone reinforces the same *** to eachother so often that it makes it incredibly hard to disbelieve it.
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Washington state gets rid of "sexist language"Quote: In Washington state, the word "freshman" is out. And "first-year student" is in. In total, 40,000 words have been changed as part of an effort to rid state statutes of gender-biased language.
The bill, signed into law earlier in the year by Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee, went into effect this week.
And it was no small task. "This was a much larger effort than I had envisioned. Mankind means man and woman," Democratic state Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles of Seattle told Reuters.
"Fisherman" is now a "fisher." "Penmanship" is called "handwriting." And "manhole cover" is, well, still "manhole cover." Some words don’t have an easy replacement.
Others do: "His" is now “his and hers.” "Clergyman" is now "clergy." "Journeyman plumber" is now “journey-level plumber,” according to the Daily Mail.
According to Reuters, Washington is the fourth state to officially remove gender-biased language from the law. Others are Florida, North Carolina and Illinois. Nine other states are considering similar gender-neutral laws.
"Words matter," Liz Watson, a National Women's Law Center senior adviser, told Reuters. "This is important in changing hearts and minds."
France recently officially banned the term "mademoiselle" from official documents. The Gallic term means "miss," and French officials contended it forced women to acknowledge their marital status.
The French also bid adieu to "maiden name," which they dismissed as "archaic." They should know: Paris only recently got rid of a law that banned women from wearing pants. an awesome read about about a policy that is as idiotic as it is harmful. But what do you expect in a country where the president - the sole personification of elected authority- claims to be a feminist?`
I guess they just forgot to write the VAWA law and all the other domestic violence shelter rules in gender neutral language. Must've slipped through the cracks
Also, words only seem to matter to these c*nts when they are directed toward women, but when men are the targets, they have no problem making posters, billboards and all kinds of ads accusing MALES of being rapist, perverts, wife beaters, abusers, etc
but in the end i wonder:
Will menstruation now be personstruation?
Also will they outlaw ladies night at the local bar?
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