SE Wants You To Bring Along "gimp" Players...

Even if you're not abrasive or are even friendly about it, some folks are hostile to ANY criticism, and in my experience, they outnumber the ones I've talked to who actually take advice.

My experience is drastically different, I can't think of a single situation where someone was hostile to me after receiving polite criticism. There are plenty where I was less than polite and received the same treatment in return.

Same here comeatmebro i agree with you.

Ok maybe "dismissive" is better than "hostile". Inaccurate word choice. (I'm usually going to bed about now)

It depends what you're asking/expecting and the situation.

You can't just go up to someone and tell them to get better gear, because odds are they aren't sitting on the gil and resources to do so or they would have already.

It's your right to be cynical, but it's not a realistic worldview. The vast majority of players are perfectly reasonable people and will be glad to listen to advice and act on advice that makes sense to them. If you can't explain something in a way that makes sufficient sense, that's on you.

When I help coordinate these runs, stuff is explained quite clearly. Problem is that people fail to reliably execute strategy and don't know how to compensate for things going wrong.
I feel like all I do is *** and nag people to make sure things happen ._. I don't wanna be that mean person but after sayin the same stuff 100x I got no patience some days >.>

Failure to cross party heal when its needed, some random person doesnt stay with their party when groups split up in fracture, someone isnt out of AoE range, someone turns the raptor so it firebreathes mages or someone weakened that wasnt far enough away. Theres always 1 random fail here and there that makes me wanna flip tables.

When things go well, each delve NM can die in 5mins, random screwups/failure to execute strategy means a 10minute kill instead. People just can't seem to reliably bring their 'A game' all the time it seems. I really hate delve lately.

hey no ones perfect all the time, everyone has there moments when they make a mistake even folks who do things a thousand times.

i once forgot to get soap for limbus once,lol hell even forgot the pops, mistakes happen to anyone when your pumped and ready to rock and roll with folks. Sometimes things are over thought out to where you can forget like i did with the soap for limbus,lol

If the margin for error weren't so damn slim, most of these wouldn't be issues though :\ Granted stuff like VW and Abyssea it was TOO wide, but we don't need "Perfect or GTFO" content either /:

Gimp is such a subjective term in regards to gaming, I'm not sure it even has a real definition. I don't think SE is asking us to bring people who are incapable of completing content. They just want us to bring people who haven't had the chance to do it yet. I don't necessarily consider such a person gimp. They may be highly competent and well geared from previous content in which case they're fine for outside KI runs and plasm farms.

Cor was doing wrong rolls on dds at niggalima
/t Excuse me, but it would be better if you did chaos/fighter for dds because it increases their dps more
>r OMG STFU DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY JOB
/t ..why are you so mad, I was just trying to help you
>r I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE JUST CAUSE YOU ARE IN A ENDGAME LS YOU THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL??
/t Cor is my main job and I just like helping others improve at it, that's why I sent a tell
>r <insults>

Last time I helped someone <.<

Yeah it feels like the margin of error is too slim for this event still.

Its tedious to farm beads and having a random fail/disconnect issue with key people on an attempted boss run using beads just makes me ill thinkin about it.

I'd just ask "May I have chaos/fighter roll plz". If they don't listen I spam this repeatedly. If they still don't listen I don't pt with them next time.

I think for some ppl, telling them "It's better to do X" hurts their ego because they feel they're doing wrong or being inferior. In that case ask right roll right away may work better.

Usually if I'm needing specific buff or haste, I just say "X buff plz" and it usually worked.

I have to agree that I find it much more common that verge players appreciate getting pointed in the right direction. I normally ask something like "Would you be interested in a little advice?" and if they say no I just toss them on the ignore list.

I haven't seen anyone post a perspective similar to mine yet so here goes. I have stopped shouting to make delve parties almost entirely. The main reason is that I co-lead one of the few linkshells on carbuncle that are beating delve bosses, but even when there are open spots, I will /t people I know directly before shouting now. I put way too much effort into maintaining the integrity of groups to have someone completely ruin MULTIPLE runs because of the SAME issue. It is emotionally draining to let down 16 people because I invited someone who desperately wants to get something. I've given hundreds of people chances to show me they are competent, gave them every opportunity to ask questions, and they still don't get it right to the point where I ask myself why they are ok being a dead weight.

I have been driven to the point of almost taking a break because all day I get /t's from people asking to "get me in the next one please", and frankly the begging has lead to me feeling like ***constantly.

How does it make you, "the uninvited" feel, that I have logged off the game several times simply because of guilt from not being able to accomodate for the 5-6 tells begging for a win or a spot PER HOUR.

My only suggestions are to go through the same process I did and make your own shouts(outsideNM's+NQfarming->insideNM's->insideNM's+MB/Beadx3+2NM+MB) or prove yourself in the various other parties that go one throughout the day. Separate yourself from the group of people you consider yourself not to be a part of. Word does get around, and I do hear that word.

When you join a party of any kind, don't you expect everyone in that party to play their job correctly?

Its not a matter of bringing along 'gimp' players. Its a matter of ppl being *** and only letting those with the absolute best gear join them.
Some fail to realize that ppl with slightly less then the best can still be highly effective. And at the same time, someone with top notch equip can still sux horribly.

Justify it how you will, being a *** is being a ***'

People prefer to stick with like-minded players, that is all. Each one of us plays with different objectives and expectations from our gaming experience, it's only normal that we prefer to share it with those who feel the same way.

A lot of the requirement in a pt is actually pretty reasonable. Asking for a delve weapon or more acc in a TP set isn't being ***, it's not even unreasonable requirement.

Asking max rank augment on every weapon/armor plus perfect TP/WS set on every slot is, asking for 1 specific weapon that's not zomg hard to get isn't.

I rarely see pt ask for best gears in every slot ever. Most of the requirement I've seen are pretty reasonable IMO. Barring REM DD only on qilin thing before SoA.

You sir have clearly been snubbed on numerous occasions one thinks by such groups and your just posting rage.

End of the day these boss runs are no laughing matter, everyone has to be on point with what they are doing. Everyone's gear has to be of a high lvl for you to even stand a chance of killing the likes of tojil. Everyone's job is important especially the sch stuns and they need damn good stun sets to land it repeatedly on tojil. This isn't some *** joke where you stroll up with your +1 af3 set from abyssea. This content is designed to be high level and is designed to be difficult. If your not prepared to put work into a job that's required in an effective set up to kill it then your never getting an invite.

Make your own group. There are obviously tons of people with similarly "adequate enough" sets looking to get into delve. It seems like you feel entitled to people allowing for your preferences, but no one has to invite you if you don't meet their standard.

If you truly believe that your current level is sufficient for the content, why not assemble all those like minded people and just do it?

Most important thing and most perfectly stated.

Put it this way: STOP *** LEECHING YOUR JOBS IN ABYSSEA!

The "Five Step Plan to Playing FFXI Like the Veterans Do Since 2002":

1. Learn how to play and gear your job properly.

2. Level up your skills needed for your job.

3. Listen to instructions when it's been clearly and oft repeated.

4. Have different sets of gear for different situations.

5. STOP LEECHING YOUR WAY TO CAP LEVEL! You never learn anything that way when you take the easy route to anything-- real life or not.

But, I will say this again as I said before if we start excluding players from certain things in the game:
"If we no one is willing to help others, then who will?"

I'm more than willing to help others in this game, and I'd like to see other players to do the same. But, helping others can only do so much if the other person is unwilling to learn it themselves.

Think of it as a student-teacher relationship. The teacher can only go halfway and teach the student as much as possible, the rest has to be learned by the student and be done through their own effort and willingness to learn.

What makes you unable to learn at lv 99? Does the game suddenly turn into quantum physics?

You learn nothing of relevance in an "Old school" party that you can't learn in 20 min at 99. If someone doesn't learn how to play their job they wouldn't have learned it over the 1-75 grind in traditional parties anyways. The most complicated things to learn from that is chain pulling and how to use a <bt> or /assist macro, neither of which are rocket science.

All the jobs I have leveled were 75 before abyssea started, if I were to level something else I would gladly leech it. Just for the simple fact that the time I would have spent brainlessly grinding on innocent wildlife could instead be spent acquiring the proper gear. On top of that it is much easier to cap your skills once you are 99 since the increased exp nowadays will likely cause you to fall behind your level, by extension making you perform poorly at parties of your level. If you enjoy the grind then more power to you, some people would rather spend their time on other stuff.

Long story short, bad players will be bad no matter how they get their exp.

True story: people who insist that non traditional leveling leads to poorer players are typically poor players themselves

PPl blaming abys almost look and sound as dumb as the one unwilling to learn how to play.

Because:

1) I have not the personal patience to shout for hours
2*) I have not the personal knowledge of the details of these runs
3) I will probably never gain intimate knowledge of these runs because I personally learn from having experienced the content which i have experienced very little outside "no hybrid set you no go","your stun set is not adequate you no go","You dont have cure potency 50% or enhancing 500 sets you no go",and the occasional "Okay,run fails because of other idiot A".
4) Even if i were to "make my own group" It would be wasted effort as when i would be able to do these runs there are many shouts at the same time taking from the same recruitment pool which causes condition 1 and 3 more than anything.

addendum 2*) simply because there is a plethora of information on BG does not equate to me personally knowing the flow of this content Nor, does it mean i know the flow of any other venue BG has a plethora of information on.

5) The above are not excuses, dont go there.

Helping other people out is great, it really is. But it can't always co-exist with people working on the very cutting edge of the game. There are plenty of people that are better than "adequate enough" that are also trying to get in on the action. Why would someone choose someone who is (in their opinion) less capable than another available option - especially when success is nothing close to guaranteed?

If someone is looking for whatever job for a hours and hours, and you have that job, but they rejected you, that might be dumb. Or it might not. I don't even think that really matters since it's their choice. But it also might be a clue for what you need to do for your character first.

There's a certain amount of fun and learning that comes from getting your *** destroyed by some new content - but it doesn't take long before the idea of spending however long gathering, gearing, going over strategy, and actually doing whatever it is you're doing only to face certain annihilation gets old. I went through dozens of "learning" legion fights like that - many of them shouts - every time, swearing I'd never go again.

Having fun and having success is great.
Having fun and having little/no success is damn good.
Having no fun, but having success is ok.
Having no fun and no success is really a waste of time.

I don't want to sound like I'm out there killing Delve bosses - I'm not. I don't know the people, don't have the gear/jobs - but working on it, always working on it. I really can't complain if someone tells me, "of the 18 people we have, all will be better than you." And I know that at the very worst case, what's top tier now will be second tier eventually, and I'll be better equipped to face it then. In the meantime, I will finish up NNI, work on Salvage, farm some marrows, get into as many plasm runs as I can, and save as much money as I can for the things that will really make a difference.

Based on your reasoning I do not think you will advance in new content. I'm ignoring 1 because I don't think shouting for hours is necessary... in fact I would advise against shouting altogether. Your answer to reason 3 should be, I do not have these things so I will work on improving them. Perhaps if you worked on 3 then 2 would not be an issue. As far as 4 goes, perhaps while you are working on 3 you could make some friends to circumvent 4. This content is not all easy (some of it most certainly is). You have to make constant marginal improvements to finally be capable of doing the end goal now... not like abyssea where 2 talented friends could hand you the game on a silver platter.

As far as catching people up on delve content, I think this is only going to become more of an issue in the future because a lot of those early shout groups have now cemented into networks of players who ask each other to do stuff instead of shouting for it.

edit: seems I am dyslexic

The people who are experienced gained that by going in and learning with other people who didn't know the content. Every run pulls from the same recruitment pool, but if there are as many people being unnecessarily turned away as you imply, it shouldn't be an issue. If you're unwilling to do it, that's fine, but it's unreasonable to think that people are obligated to do for you what you won't do for yourself.

Everything in point 2 is pre-SOA level gearing, most of it is VW tier or earlier. Players who don't meet it obviously haven't put in the effort in the previous content, why expect they would be a good choice to bring along for current content? It seems like people with this mentality want to be carried through by people who were willing to put in the work to learn the content by trial and error, so they can get the same rewards without the same effort.

Just in case it wasn't clear enough.