Given the design of many pieces of gear in the past, if they don't know we swap gear a lot it would mean the dev team is made up of a bunch of goldfishes. Which...
...well, I guess that would explain a lot.
[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
06-20-2013 10:32 AM
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| Mocchi: Item Level Follow-Ups I tried checking a Chapuli in Ceizak on the test server with a level 113 dagger equipped and it still gave the "Tough" message - is the new system for checking not implemented yet? Also, is it only the EXP that changes, or does it change the level correction value as well? Thanks for your feedback from the test server. Here are responses to your two points: Test Server Checking I can confirm that on the test server right now we've only added the item levels. Increasing or decreasing the EXP values and changes to the messages received are still in development and were not implemented on the test server yet. Level Difference Correction Level difference correction will not be applied due to item levels of equipped items. Furthermore, there is no level correction applied in Adoulin areas. Can you comment on enemy abilities which strip equipment? As the item level of equipment rises, these strip abilities will effectively level down players and they will be overly powerful. Additionally, will pets be affected by item level in the same way as players? Thanks for your contributions. I'll respond to your two points: Enemy Techniques We will continue to avoid implementing techniques which strip equipment and prevent re-equipping as much as possible. There may be a select few cases where abilities like this can still be used, but we will devise a way to make them avoidable. Pet Strengthening Matsui has previously responded to this, but we are planning to strengthen pets in ways which correspond to each job. If you haven't previously seen the post, please check it out. Are all items obtained from one content level implemented with the same item level regardless of the equipment slot, etc.? For Rare/Ex equipment that cannot be passed on to other players, the item level will always match the content level. For equipment that can be passed on, such as synthesized equipment, the item level will be slightly lower. If you change armor during combat, will the experience value be corrected for the maximum item level during battle? For example, if you have item level 119 at some point during battle, but item level 110 at the time the enemy is defeated, will you get the experience for level 119? Yes, that's right, it would be similar to a level 1 and level 20 player partied together with the experience based on the level 20 player. Also, when the EXP goes up and down by item level, it will not be based on just one equipment slot. It will be a combination of weapon (main, sub, ranged) and armor (head, body, hands, legs, and feet), calculated my a mechanism which references all of the item levels and determines a final level. Ears, fingers, back, waist, neck, grip, and non-throwable ammo (treated as accessories) will not have the item level displayed and will be excluded from this reference. Equipment with Item Levels For equipment tailored to higher item levels, uniform stat increases based on that item level will be granted (for example, item level 10 may grant STR+10, etc.). The stats will also differ by equipment slot (for example, it might be STR+10 for head but STR+5 on hands). The parameters associated with item level will always be displayed on the equipment as normal statistics. This will increase the amount of statistics being displayed, so we will look into adjusting the display. Regarding EXP Obtained from Lower Level Enemies We are concerned with Trial of the Magians being affected by this, so we will make an adjustment to prevent this from happening. The EXP obtained from monsters at level 99 or below will remain intact; the item level adjustments will only affect EXP obtained from monsters at level 100 or higher. Translated by: Slycer | ||||
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...so, this is only going to matter for Adoulin, and XP is a pretty small concern once you hit 99, since merit parties in Adoulin are probably never going to happen.
Why are they even putting this XP-adjustment thing in?
Why are they even putting this XP-adjustment thing in?
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Ears, fingers, back, waist, neck, grip, and non-throwable ammo (treated as accessories) will not have the item level displayed and will be excluded from this reference.
Lol'd because everyone's gear would be level 100+ and a level 30 rajas ring
Or would they have the balls to give rajas a "level 110" item level lol
Lol'd because everyone's gear would be level 100+ and a level 30 rajas ring
Or would they have the balls to give rajas a "level 110" item level lol
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Say you have gear that makes you "level" 119, and you're fighting a mob that is level 110. That would put you 9 levels "above" what you're fighting whereas if they use your job level, that would put you 11 levels below what you're fighting. The exp would not be proportionate to what you actually are.
Tsol said: »
Say you have gear that makes you "level" 119, and you're fighting a mob that is level 110. That would put you 9 levels "above" what you're fighting whereas if they use your job level, that would put you 11 levels below what you're fighting. The exp would not be proportionate to what you actually are.
I understand *what* this does. I don't understand *why* they're doing it. No one kills Adoulin monsters for XP, and they aren't likely to start doing so. Given that there's still the cap on normal XP from monster kills as far as I'm aware, there's already some method to control increased XP gain.
And even *without* this, Abyssea parties are still going to be faster XP than any imaginary Adoulin merit parties.
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
No one kills Adoulin monsters for XP, and they aren't likely to start doing so. And even *without* this, Abyssea parties are still going to be faster XP than any imaginary Adoulin merit parties.
Yeah I don't understand where the game is going for the future - are we now just killing things for gears? Pretty much just "leveling up" our gears instead of doing everything else pre-SoA ? It's nice to see that Abyssea is still not dead yet, if ever... lol.
Just because people are exping there there now, doesn't mean that they wouldn't stop and they have to plan for that. I mean, they could take iLvl up a LOT higher. You can't assume that people would stay in Abyssea forever to exp if the adoulin mobs are providing 600 p/k right off the bat.
Not to mention you can use exp ring outside of Abyssea, so that 600 could become 1200 really quick.
Tsol said: »
Just because people are exping there there now, doesn't mean that they wouldn't stop and they have to plan for that. I mean, they could take iLvl up a LOT higher. You can't assume that people would stay in Abyssea forever to exp if the adoulin mobs are providing 600 p/k right off the bat.
Except you can't level from 30-99 in Adoulin, which is the only span of character progression where XP truly matters. You're also forgetting that Abyssea parties also grant XP from boxes and cruor (which will likely become relevant after the REM update again).
Adoulin would only matter for merit parties, perhaps, and given how quickly we can cap merits already, I don't know why they're suddenly viewing the rate of XP gain as a problem. Gaining it a little faster isn't going to change the game at all at this point.
When Matsui was already complaining about not having the manpower to get stuff done, it's baffling that he'd waste the manpower he *does* have on something so utterly pointless.
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Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
When Matsui was already complaining about not having the manpower to get stuff done, it's baffling that he'd waste the manpower he *does* have on something so utterly pointless.
It says something that this isn't even the most confusing move he's made so far.
Lakshmi.Rooks said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
When Matsui was already complaining about not having the manpower to get stuff done, it's baffling that he'd waste the manpower he *does* have on something so utterly pointless.
It says something that this isn't even the most confusing move he's made so far.
I've probably missed others since I was gone for a few years. I'm not sure if I'm happy about that or not. I mean, on some level, all this stuff really does make me laugh while I'm facepalming.
LOL he should have implemented the gear check system like WoW, if your gears are not meeting the overall number, you cannot do the events. That would force people to actually go back and farm the previous content gears to be eligible for newer contents. Though to be honest his method is more democratic that every one can attend and just come, which is great but at the same time, negating all the previous contents.
It would have been so much better if you can combine your current AF3+2 (or any previous contents gears) and mix it with the SoA plasm to add more stats. This will give reasons for all players to keep the gears they like (wether nostalgia or cosmetic reasons) and keep upgrading that said gears appropriately. Gives better reasons to do every contents before SoA and get the gears you like the best and focus on upgrading it via SoA path.
If he lets you do the same to Magian Trials weapon, it would revitalize that activities as well. It makes it relevant to do older content or to do the newer content to make your previous weapons better. I think that is what R/M/E also asked him for - but then he should have make upgrading to lvl 99 much easier and not 1500 BS crap.
It would have been so much better if you can combine your current AF3+2 (or any previous contents gears) and mix it with the SoA plasm to add more stats. This will give reasons for all players to keep the gears they like (wether nostalgia or cosmetic reasons) and keep upgrading that said gears appropriately. Gives better reasons to do every contents before SoA and get the gears you like the best and focus on upgrading it via SoA path.
If he lets you do the same to Magian Trials weapon, it would revitalize that activities as well. It makes it relevant to do older content or to do the newer content to make your previous weapons better. I think that is what R/M/E also asked him for - but then he should have make upgrading to lvl 99 much easier and not 1500 BS crap.
Luvbunny1 said: »
LOL he should have implemented the gear check system like WoW, if your gears are not meeting the overall number, you cannot do the events. That would force people to actually go back and farm the previous content gears to be eligible for newer contents. Though to be honest his method is more democratic that every one can attend and just come, which is great but at the same time, negating all the previous contents.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Luvbunny1 said: »
LOL he should have implemented the gear check system like WoW, if your gears are not meeting the overall number, you cannot do the events. That would force people to actually go back and farm the previous content gears to be eligible for newer contents. Though to be honest his method is more democratic that every one can attend and just come, which is great but at the same time, negating all the previous contents.
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So let me get this straight... They won't let us see acc, haste R att or anything like that because it requires displaying extra data and that would cause more network lag... but then they go add a 100% completely pointless iLevel system that displays extra data.
I'm slightly annoyed.
I'm slightly annoyed.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You have no idea how this game works, do you?
I know exactly how this game works, do you? Obviously Matsui throw options out of the window with SoA, now it's all about getting your delve weapons or bust. Or that's not very clear for you either?
No you don't, otherwise you wouldn't suggest that system you mentioned above. You're completely clueless.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
No you don't, otherwise you wouldn't suggest that system you mentioned above. You're completely clueless.
It's all good though, I think this is their intention all along, to move the majority out of FFXI and get them to try FF14 (and hopefully stay there since it is more tailored to the casual and semi hardcore groups). This way they can focus to make FFXI for the die hard hardcore and become even more niche. They should just release FFXI: Dark Soul prepare to die edition lol. Apparently FF13: Lightning Returns is going down this route.
Luvbunny1 said: »
I am completely aware that my suggestion will not work for FFXI - lack of manpower is one thing, PS2 spaghetti code is another.
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Luvbunny1 said: »
I think this is their intention all along, to move the majority out of FFXI
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Luvbunny1 said: »
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Tsol said: »
Not to mention you can use exp ring outside of Abyssea, so that 600 could become 1200 really quick.
Yeah... but for like, 4 minutes.
06-21-2013 11:58 AM
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| Mocchi: Item Level, Weapon Skills, and More For item display, how will it show up? For example, will the item level represent the strength of the stat enhancements (say, +20), without individually being listed on the item?
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Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
Tsol said: »
Say you have gear that makes you "level" 119, and you're fighting a mob that is level 110. That would put you 9 levels "above" what you're fighting whereas if they use your job level, that would put you 11 levels below what you're fighting. The exp would not be proportionate to what you actually are.
I understand *what* this does. I don't understand *why* they're doing it. No one kills Adoulin monsters for XP, and they aren't likely to start doing so. Given that there's still the cap on normal XP from monster kills as far as I'm aware, there's already some method to control increased XP gain.
And even *without* this, Abyssea parties are still going to be faster XP than any imaginary Adoulin merit parties.
It's so as you get stronger you can do a /check on mobs and know how your strength compares based on gear levels. EXP really just seems like a side effect.
Alkaseltzer said: »
Ragnarok.Alahra said: »
Tsol said: »
Say you have gear that makes you "level" 119, and you're fighting a mob that is level 110. That would put you 9 levels "above" what you're fighting whereas if they use your job level, that would put you 11 levels below what you're fighting. The exp would not be proportionate to what you actually are.
I understand *what* this does. I don't understand *why* they're doing it. No one kills Adoulin monsters for XP, and they aren't likely to start doing so. Given that there's still the cap on normal XP from monster kills as far as I'm aware, there's already some method to control increased XP gain.
And even *without* this, Abyssea parties are still going to be faster XP than any imaginary Adoulin merit parties.
It's so as you get stronger you can do a /check on mobs and know how your strength compares based on gear levels. EXP really just seems like a side effect.
Yeah, that's what they said in the post. But that's almost entirely irrelevant to gameplay and they're short on manpower, so I can't understand why they'd prioritize something so trivial over other things.
06-25-2013 9:02 PM
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| Matsui here. Thanks so much for all the feedback about item levels and content levels. I've been answering questions on this topic and have discussed this in the past, but I'd like to take this opportunity to talk more about it. Content Levels For Adoulin, we've set a basic repeating play cycle which entails procuring stronger equipment to challenge harder content, which will yield even stronger equipment. In order to indicate difficulty for Adoulin content in a way that is displayed in an objective fashion, we have established content levels. The below is a chart representation of this:
Why not increase the level cap? To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option. So then what were our options? Below are the two plans:
I believe that there were quite a few who recall that there was a lot of feedback in the past about content difficulty and item stats not matching up, and a lot of equipment having similar stats. We had come to see the limits of continuing to expand equipment variation laterally, and due to the fact that it wouldn't be possible to change monster strength without character growth as well as the fact that it would be difficult to make a variety of exciting content, the result would turn into only expanding areas, which we did not think was desirable. As a result based on thorough discussions, while considering the current state of the game as well as the future, we decided to boost the variation of equipment vertically. There were also a number of other reasons why increasing the level cap was not added as an option. As I am sure you are all aware, increasing the level cap would cause a number of balance related issues to arise, such as whether the support jobs would remain at 49 or if they could be allowed to go higher, limitations on job abilities and job traits, and also how high the staged increases of job traits would go. Also, the current UI system used in FINAL FANTASY XI was not created for levels to go above 99, so in order to display parameters for levels over 99 it would be necessary to completely reconstruct portions of the UI. Items Levels I With a growth system that takes place via equipment, there is one large aspect that differs from what we have seen in the game up until now. The aspect is moving from two growth patterns: parameters that grow by leveling and parameters that grow from equipment, to just one: parameters that grow from equipment. As a result, equipment stats have come to look much larger; however, the fundamental thought process up until now will not be changed. Just like up until now where you would gain experience points by defeating strong monsters that you were able to challenge, level up, and continue to grow by procuring strong equipment, in Adoulin as well you'll be challenging strong monsters and content, and progressing growth by gathering powerful equipment. Put simply, due to the below reasons we've made it so the strength of equipment does not rely on the level you can equip them, but instead relies on the content level you can obtain them.
Items Levels II I'd like to go into more detail about the strength of equipment does not relying on the level you can equip them, but instead relying on the content level you can obtain them. The strength of monsters that appear in Adoulin content will be decided on the content level. (Since we will be building a solid hierarchy between content, we’re making it so just 1 level difference in content level will be extremely noticeable.) We've also calculated the necessary parameters you will need to combat these monsters and decided the stats for Adoulin equipment, which is why we've established item levels to make them references for equipment strength. The meaning behind content levels and items levels Basically, we would like you to use content levels and items levels as a reference when challenging content. Though it's a reference, we understand there are aspects that can be covered by certain strategies and ways of playing as well as equipment that is used/collected for their special stats and properties, so this is NOT something that is saying "you definitely cannot do this content without this item level." We'd just like this to act as a gauge where you can consider what kind of equipment you should gather and what kind of content you can go do. Amongst the equipment available before Adoulin, there were items that exceeded item level 100, and while there are aspects that make it difficult to determine, it will become easier to understand as more and more items with item levels are introduced. In regards to equipment that have augments added to them, we had originally wanted to have individual item levels depending on the specific value of the augments, but with the current system it was determined that it would be difficult, and we will be making it so the item level displayed is for the highest augment value possible. We apologize for this and appreciate your understanding. Also, similar to how we would like you to use content levels and items levels as reference, it also makes it possible for the person implementing equipment and content to grasp the strength of equipment stats and monster strength more objectively. In the event that the person implementing these things were to change, it’s extremely important for them to prepare the proper content and item stats following the content level difficulty and stat curve. As an example, as a response to feedback that mentioned content difficulty and item stats did not match, it will now become possible to accurately *** this, and it will also be possible to judge more accurately what kind of content is being implemented for a certain level, whether more variations are necessary, and what content's difficulty needs adjusting. Wrap-up Until now I have been talking about the concept and purpose for content levels and item levels. I'm aware that the negative feedback in regards to content levels and item levels is largely split into two categories.
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Dear Matsui,
So just post a chart of "content levels" on the main site that nobody checks, next to the "useful" in-game-terms for translation that nobody checks.
In this way the end-goal of nobody caring or worrying about item level would still be achieved. I don't care if your item level is over 9000 if you are TP'ing in 19% haste insisting that the double attack on your [insert piece here] is making up for your complete fail.
Then resources wouldn't be wasted adding arbitrary (pretty much) numbers next to gear. I would like to inform you, the "developer", this game works on item sets comprised of valuable stats for specific combat stages, rather than one set of gear being progressively better than the last.
"That guy has an item level of over 200! Let's invite him without assessing the value of the stats he has equipped in his sets!" - Says nobody who will want to win at this game ever.
You could re-texture the floor models and it would be more productive.
Sincerely Yours,
Anyone who has been playing this game for more than a week.
So just post a chart of "content levels" on the main site that nobody checks, next to the "useful" in-game-terms for translation that nobody checks.
In this way the end-goal of nobody caring or worrying about item level would still be achieved. I don't care if your item level is over 9000 if you are TP'ing in 19% haste insisting that the double attack on your [insert piece here] is making up for your complete fail.
Then resources wouldn't be wasted adding arbitrary (pretty much) numbers next to gear. I would like to inform you, the "developer", this game works on item sets comprised of valuable stats for specific combat stages, rather than one set of gear being progressively better than the last.
"That guy has an item level of over 200! Let's invite him without assessing the value of the stats he has equipped in his sets!" - Says nobody who will want to win at this game ever.
You could re-texture the floor models and it would be more productive.
Sincerely Yours,
Anyone who has been playing this game for more than a week.
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