[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text

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[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
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 Siren.Aerolite
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By Siren.Aerolite 2013-06-14 13:04:25
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Heimdel said: »
Carbuncle.Darktrance said: »
Not that uncommon a thing. For the short time I played DCUO, they had item levels of equipment. There was some content that was restricted to certain gear levels too. Like, you couldn't do this Raid unless your gear level was 60, etc. Not sure that's where this is going. Maybe to keep players from bringing a lv 1 character into Voidwatch to leech exp.
I'm surprised people aren't charging for that already 2-4 well geared people pick a easy to kill vw nm then party up with lower levels and kill nm for xp rewards for a price. It could be like 10-25k xp give or take every few mins. Edit: Plus curor and any random chest rewards they might get.

Pretty sure you have to be lvl90 to participate in VW, so no, that wouldn't work.
You have to be level 75 to do VW. I got my WHM from lvl 75 to lvl 99 doing Celaeno shouts.
 Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-06-14 13:07:20
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Incoming 22% haste PUG players with lvl 120 gear thinking they are doing it right.
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 Ragnarok.Alahra
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By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-14 13:10:29
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Lakshmi.Greggles said: »
Garuda.Finuve said: »
if this ends up turning the game into strictly better gear progression, then I'm out

Hasn't it been that way since even before Abyssea came out? I'm not sure what the difference between then and now is. Can you explain that to me?

I believe what he's referring to is that gear progression is becoming more "vertical" in the game. Previously, it was more "horizontal," with "progression" consisting primarily of sidegrades from a wide variety of events.

Looking forward based on Matsui's comments and their addition of item level, we can likely expect that there will be items beyond level 120 (which is the current maximum, seen on items from Delve fracture bosses). If this is the case, the game will likely focus around acquiring gear, then acquiring the next highest item level of gear, dropping the old gear, and repeat.

While there has always been a subtle system of vertical progression in the game, vertical upgrades were often minor, allowing for a variety of gear sets being roughly viable for various content. As the new vertical progression settles into place and there is more appropriate gear of high item level available, we'll potentially see content become more "gated" than it already is, requiring full gearsets from one group of content to do the next group of content, and so on.

Since it's a pretty big shift in the way the game's item progression has been organized in the past, it remains to be seen how well they can pull that off and if it will really stick, given that gear-swaps are a bit of a wrench in the system (though not a huge one, in the end, I think).
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-06-14 13:10:37
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Is the sky falling yet?
 Asura.Aikchan
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By Asura.Aikchan 2013-06-14 13:39:50
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Kalila said: »
06-14-2013 04:04 AM
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[dev1152] Equipment Help Text

  • Pieces of equipment introduced in the March 27, 2013 version update will have their levels displayed in their help text.


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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 13:50:55
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Is the sky falling yet?

Jesus Pleebo that's *** horrifying.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-06-14 15:28:37
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Lakshmi.Greggles said: »
Garuda.Finuve said: »
if this ends up turning the game into strictly better gear progression, then I'm out

Hasn't it been that way since even before Abyssea came out? I'm not sure what the difference between then and now is. Can you explain that to me?

AF1+1, aug'd AF2+2 + abyssea af3 is still useful for macro/JA pieces and is still worth pursuing/keeping for that reason. Pieces like that in particular represent useful horizontal gear progression. Putting time into those doesn't feel wasted and situationaly improves your job (af2+2 hands for sam, af3 hands for cor, etc).

Those kind of items are what makes ffxi really cool, this new gear that just has more str/atk/whatever with bigger numbers isnt particularly exciting to chase after.

And the new gear is even more boring to plasm/lixir grind for with the nagging feeling it may be rendered obsolete with this new gear progression paradigm they seem to be pushing.
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By Alkaseltzer 2013-06-14 15:31:57
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Heimdel said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Ragnarok.Ravant said: »
I dont understand this can someone explain why the item level and required level are different?
It's what the level would be if we had a cap above 99. It's there to show the gap from previous equipment...it's not needed by any means, not sure why they care to show it, maybe to make us better understand where they're going with releases.

So basically this is a completely meaningless thing they took time to implement with completely arbitrary numbers. Yet they keep saying they don't have time or man power to do updates and changes that are actually needed.

Well it isn't meaningless since this means people can easily eyeball equipment to see if it a better level equipment or not. And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-14 15:35:49
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Alkaseltzer said: »
And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.
Instead of displaying something no one cares about, they could show us much more useful things like accuracy, ranged attack, and so on? Seriously, this is so pointless.
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 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:39:02
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So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters?
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By Heimdel 2013-06-14 15:43:02
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Alkaseltzer said: »
Heimdel said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Ragnarok.Ravant said: »
I dont understand this can someone explain why the item level and required level are different?
It's what the level would be if we had a cap above 99. It's there to show the gap from previous equipment...it's not needed by any means, not sure why they care to show it, maybe to make us better understand where they're going with releases.

So basically this is a completely meaningless thing they took time to implement with completely arbitrary numbers. Yet they keep saying they don't have time or man power to do updates and changes that are actually needed.

Well it isn't meaningless since this means people can easily eyeball equipment to see if it a better level equipment or not. And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.

So how does a random number tell people if a piece of gear is or isn't better than the gear they already got than the actual stats do? So going by this thinking what would something like black belt at level 70 or defending ring count as?
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By Kalila 2013-06-14 15:43:53
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters?
Basically the stats on the item are scaled to that level? That's what I get out of it.

/shrug
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 15:45:25
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Alkaseltzer said: »
And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.
Instead of displaying something no one cares about, they could show us much more useful things like accuracy, ranged attack, and so on? Seriously, this is so pointless.

That info is not already sent to the client, so it's a lot more complex than altering the item help text, which is already sent to the client.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:46:11
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Kalila said: »
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters?
Basically the stats on the item are scaled to that level? That's what I get out of it.

/shrug

They're arbitrarily scaled though aren't they? I mean, the Yolotl Helm would be the Yolotl Helm without the <Item Level: 9001> right?
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By Alpheus 2013-06-14 15:47:22
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters?
Since they're sticking with the lvl cap of 99 there is now a ton of lvl 99 gear so they wanted to further differentiate pieces of gear (w/o the use of the required lvl to equip it which is what has been used up till now). Though frankly I'd prefer they say *** it and uncap the damn game but they can't because reasons.
 Fenrir.Deno
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By Fenrir.Deno 2013-06-14 15:48:38
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At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:51:46
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Fenrir.Deno said: »
At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x

So this is literally just a Scouter effect.
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By Kalila 2013-06-14 15:52:22
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Fenrir.Deno said: »
At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x

So this is literally just a Scouter effect.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:56:13
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So then I guess the only thing left to say is:

Inb4 /SH <Delve> NM <party> <Do You Need It?> Required PWR: 1666
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By Heimdel 2013-06-14 16:04:12
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Odin.Zicdeh said: »
So then I guess the only thing left to say is:

Inb4 /SH <Delve> NM <party> <Do You Need It?> Required PWR: 1666

I still want to know where things like black belt and defending ring would fall under this. Both being very old content gear but still beats most anything in there catagory at 99.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-14 16:07:02
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Fenrir.Hanabira said: »
lol @ people who said we werent going to be on an item level system
We didn't say they wouldn't, we said that it'd be difficult to make an accurate one.

Proof in the OP, the ilvl of either item means jackshit due to the different uses.

The point stands.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 16:09:46
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The item level is supposed to be representative of the difficulty level of the content one has to conquer to obtain it, not necessarily the "level" of the item.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 16:13:19
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
The item level is supposed to be representative of the difficulty level of the content one has to conquer to obtain it, not necessarily the "level" of the item.

Doesn't the example SE provides put the lie to that claim though? To me it just seems like a lazy way of gauging "Equip strength" without actually having to know the game.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 16:14:14
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No?
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 16:18:57
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I just remember reading an SE developer post about how they aren't boosting the level cap anymore, but new gear can be thought of as "For Level xxx", reflecting the perceived power of the equipment.

It's convenient that Difficult-to-obtain-items and strong items tend to go hand-in-hand, so there's no way I can disprove it, especially not having played the game in so long.
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By Enuyasha 2013-06-14 16:20:51
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People flipping their ***cause the developers are just telling us the Level of the content the item comes from as justification to why the stats are like that :<

Its actually kind of great...until you start wondering "then why are the stats so ***?"(-stats,unreasonably useless stats on some,but ungodly amazing stats on others).

Im sure the neo-elitists of our time will use ilevel totals as a way to bar people from events, but the old elitists will know that little <number> in the corner of your equipment has nothing to do with how well you are geared.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-14 16:26:10
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I just don't get it:

- I need the game to tell me that the item is 119 even though I know it drops from the hardest stuff that is lv 119 according to their ladder.
- The current ilvl means nothing due to how FFXI is.

I fail to see the point. I remember seeing a certain point to it a few months ago when we talked about it but the way they are implementing it, it looks useless and like a big waste of time.
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By Arziet 2013-06-14 16:27:03
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Could not agree with you more.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-14 16:29:10
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I can understand that they use this system of item levels to design them...I don't understand though why we should care lol.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-06-14 16:30:23
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Why are people so determined to make this silly little change into a huge issue?
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