Delve Axe Vs Guttler; Think Someone Is BSing Me...

got someone in my ls who's only DD is bst and LS leader lets him come that when we have mages filled... Anyway, 99 Guttler and Delve axe. I asked him why not use delve axe over Guttler if he's just going to spam Ruinator. His reasoning was a parse someone else ran for him... I'm going to run my own parse but he said he got..

132239 with Delve Axe and
176778 with Guttler Lv99.

I'm just curious how that's mathematically possible... :x

Parsing doesn't work like that... He needs to understand that just because you parse once with one weapon and once with another weapon doesn't mean the one with the higher result will always win in any situation.

Clearly he's not mathing, he's just misunderstanding what parsing is for.

Edit: Also... It's quite likely there was either an extremely large difference between the situations here or someone screwed up the parse. There's no way this was done with any form of control.

Tried explaining that to him and he rage dropped party so guess I won't be parsing him now lol.

Well... Now this parse is definitely going to loose... And that's precisely why you can't trust parses with just the "final results". The details matter. Though as I said before, parsing isn't really for figuring out what's better, that's what spreadsheets and math is for. Parsing is for epeen and figuring out how you can optimize further, knowing your stats against certain mobs so you can gear properly and for data collection.

Well I just got a Rigor, and It increased my melee damage as mnk by 50-60 damage per melee atk over Spharai, thats really an increase in damage just in TP phase, So My guess is unless you 1H or DW another Axe w/ same or comparable damage as the Delve Axe you wont get "good" results.

1H situation Delve Axe should win, DW situation My guess is, wont be that much difference, but should be "better" than Guttler

First of all I left cause I had to go to work, 2nd I didn't parse it someone else did and when comparing the numbers guttler won.

It was done in as close as a situation as I could both in delve. I also don't appreciate bringing this here like I don't know who ur talking about.

I'm in the ls and bst is my dd job, u don't like I no one forcing u to stay.

That large of a spread favoring the weaker weapon indicates there IS something inaccurate and/or unseen about those numbers/scenarios though.


Getting defensive when someone questions the numbers makes them look even fishier too.

No ones getting defensive, its just really underhanded to hide behind an old char and call a ls member out like I don't know who u are.

Honestly it's not a big deal. It's a simple question and just because your ego is spewing out doesn't mean it was his original intentions when he first asked the question. The fact the parse was done in Delve depends on the situation. Numbers could definitely be unaccounted for and you can't rely on one parse as your source of reasoning.

Simply put, check the Math or use the Spreadsheets, and you'll get a definitive answer on which is better (which should be the Delve weapon, for now).

Still... I'd recommend taking the advice. You may have spent a ton of money time and tears on your guttler and trust me... I understand but you already have the delve weapon and guttler it isn't going to compare in any situation. Period. Hopefully soon, you'll have an updated weapon which will win but for now, I'd use the weapon that will help your ls do better.

wat

How am I "hiding" under an "old character" when I have my current character linked to this account? >.> And I didn't see a "going to work" anywhere in the logs (just check'em.) I did however see someone crack at you with "oh god bst why" and then you dropped party.


I "brought this here" because I find it very had to believe a DMG88 axe is out doing a DMG132 by 44,539 damage. You said Luthour parsed, yeah? Maybe he forgot to reset the parse or someshit, but it shouldn't be mathematically possible assuming you have the same buffs and did the same area. However, if it is somehow possible and if there is someone on here could explain it to me, then yeah. I'm gonna post it here. Also, no one else knew I was even talking about you til now. So /slowclap.

I don't want this to turn into a player bashing thread. That wasn't my intent. That being said, I've heard complaints from other linkshell members about him.

Also Zag if I really had a problem with you, I have a pearlsack for our shell... But I'm not immature enough to /breakpearl without some legit reason(s).

Uh oh, tanz has a pearlsack now. Had a feeling it was about our shell/zang before even seeing it was you as OP.

Even without the numbers I could tell it was weaker, my ws numbers dropped a lot. My only explanation is the +40 attk and the hidden effect. I don't plan on leaving it at 1 test and its final but until its proven otherwise I'm not going to use what I see as a weaker weapon.

The answer is both the way ppl play and buffs.
Using apoc I could outdo some Delve DDs by a lot, I could even outdo my own rank 7 Bereaver by a lot too. But if I'm fully buffed I use bereaver then I outdo everything else I could use.

lol Voe your avatar creeps me out. >_> When are you coming back?

+40ATK from a DMG88 Axe would NOT make up the difference. And I thought the relic "Occ does 2.5 damage" didn't proc on weapon skills?

lol I'll probably be back soon, miss you guys already.

And there's definitely no way the dps from the occ 2.5 dmg would make up for it, especially since it doesn't proc on weapon skills as you said.

Yeah I said earlier that Apoc was basically the only weapon not affected by delve weapons because of the WS effect/aftermath granted. And it's not like I'm ragging on Zang's BST because it is well geared. I just can't wrap my head around the numbers was the only reason I started this topic.

Flamm: put a comma after 'I'. substitute 'I' for 'me'. it works. yoda speak. filling thread with oneliners over grammer is lame. the dude is being outsourced in a public thread. forgive him for not putting a comma in there for it too make sense for someone who cant inference.

Mirvana: seriously the guy said 3 sentances in a thread that is attacking his DD style. lame comment on ur side imo. Thank god the guy the op is talking about showed up too comment.

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You cannot compare the parses's totals on a mob an entire alliance is fighting.

A alliance fight will never play out exactly the same. You're parse totals are going too be all over the place depending if a DD or two doesn't play as optimally as they did the last fight. therefor the fight goes on longer, therfore ur totals go up. 1 person dies everyone else's parse total will go up 20k etc. the variables are endless. all you guys are sad

Occx2.5 will not proc on WS. guttler would be smoked just comparing ruinator. 40 att is nothing compared too.., a what, 40% base dmg increase.. c'mon.

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OP be the bigger person and realize when someone doesnt know what their doing and just move on instead of posting a thread too dramatize their way of thinking. both of you have no common sense on parse data comparisons. end thread lock. dead. die.

Parses in delve during fodder farming are extremely inaccurate also.

Anyone else with the weapons(99 guttler and da axe) have any other numbers to add cause so far I see a whole lot of no proof.

Not saying I'm right but I haven't seen it proven wrong.

You're asking us to prove that this isn't better than this

Nobody is proving it because it's patently ridiculous

You're overreacting, being lazy, and truth be told, should not be allowed to play melee jobs at any serious event with your linkshell because you don't have the faintest idea how melee damage works

So I take that as a no.

i am no bst and i have no clue what they wear/can wear, so you, who DD's on bst can simply download the spreadsheet (if you dont know it by now) and feed it with your equip, and compare your 99 relic to delve weapon. So you have your proof for yourself.

Mote's BST dps spreadsheet

45 base damage is alot........ If you don't understand that and you think that the 40 attack and what 20% on the hidden effect? Think about how much of an increase that is compared to 45 base damage... Just thinking about it puts guttler to shame, noob.

How do i calculate a lot, I can try to put noob in it but I don't think itll work.

Plugged your gear into the spreadsheet - just left everything else at the default because I am not you and don't know your setup, but the numbers would scale in the same fashion, so I would imagine it works regardless.

Guttler 99 comes out at ~100 DPS.
Brethren hits ~200. Even if you put on all sorts of random, subpar gear, it still beats the Guttler. (In full Ferine +1, with a Chiv Chain, Light Sachet, Novio, Steelflash, 2x Ruby rings, Moepapa Stone and Amemet Mantle, it was at ~150.)

Until SE do the 99 increases, I would stick with the Delve axe.

Thank you, I do appreciate the real number comparison.

Just a thought, with haste/songs/rolls and max da/ta meaning u swing more would the ODD make a bigger difference?

with all the DA TA w/e it get less and less important because it can only trigger on 1st hit of your guttler attack round