NNI - How My Group Wins On Odin

And if your winning congrats the gear is so awesome and I'm glad you guys are getting it

I've never been so impressed with a body piece ever in this game until I got Thaumus coat and Phoryc korazin

just too fricken awesome XD

I'm currently 8/15 on one account and 2/15 on my alt.

so i still got a wayz to go

you can solo a 5 same time lamp in many cases with a sprinters drink, i routinely hit 3-4 with powder boots

order has plenty of time

that's not really the point

and you're silly.. this guide is for people who want to learn how to win, but nobody besides you can add input? maybe some of us elitists might know information that is beneficial

You brought up Cardamom Custard as some kind of insurmountable obstacle without a COR when BRD was mentioned.

only go in with 4 members thats your suggestion?

lol add your Input then but dont bash mine lol

like you said its just Input

JUST GET WINS!!!!!!

my input is that brd will add an easily measurable, relatively drastic increase to your damage over a cor

Told you to read what song does ><

COR can't sing march, which is the best DD buff in game and provide biggest dmg increase. Longer buff is irrelevant(Not sure why you keep mentioning it over and over...), even if your COR buff last for 5hrs COR still can't sing march. Gear is irrelevant(although it certainly helps)You can have best geared COR and COR still can't sing march.

You can sing march x2 on a gimp BRD, as long as it has skill lv. A gimp BRD singing march still provide more dmg increase than best geared COR buffing DD.


COR will never, ever, replace a BRD. Not with best gears, not with longer buffs.

average floor elapsed time is about 2 minutes to 4 minutes at the longest. this means you should only be on a floor for 2-4 minute at most

a COR's rolls last around 7 minutes wich is several jumps compared to a BRD's songs only lasting for 1 possibly 2 jumps.

Did you not graps why we take a COR after all this?

This is why i mentioned Daurdabla Song duration enhancement would prolly make a BRD more appealing to our group

try if you dont beleive me ....it helps not to reapply it so often you can just go go go and COR tells us to hold every few jumps rather than every floor.

And I never said COR gave better buffs

YES BRD DOES GIVE THE BEST DPS INCREASE OVERALL FOR BUFFS

but COR just last longer and when you wanting to find objectives its sucks to wait on a BRD to recast every floor in my opinion

but for our group we dont like to have reapply it that often
and we dont like our BRD buffs wearing evey other floor if we
dont

its just preffernce i never said one was neccisary or better than the other lol what a troll lol

i am never gonna take a BRD over a COR at this time
(unless its a really good BRD and a really bad COR)

And that goes for my group too if you feel like you need to change my mind on that then keep trying and then you'll have to change all 5 of there minds too lol

its just the way we win not your way lol


Dont act like i said BRD is better than COR or COR is better than BRD

We just like the way COR's rolls work and both get the job done.... we just havent had a good BRD yet i guess.

i beg to differ --- tactician up on a lamp floor means everyone on the next mob floor, EVERY DD is gonna open with 300% TP

thats 4x WS Wait Sekkanoki thats 8x WS = atleast 4-8 dead mobs
(We One Shot Alot of Mobs)

that could be a whole ALL FLOOR so i doubt in this specific instance you COR woudl outshine BRD

(might be some others i dont know about too but this is just one instance i can think of)

I doubt a March or Even x2 March is gonna do anything for that 2-3 minutes your working on lamps and ussually COR rolls are always on because they are quick and last forever

So dont go Knocking COR DPS increase it has its uses over BRD sometimes

Now for just Constant DPS on a single target over time yea BRD buffs are gonna win (March x2 Is incredible)

but we like COR just our sweet spot of a job

does this include the COR DPSing too?

Yes very much. Having haste spell and 2x Marches is almost a no delay for 2 handers.

Mazurka - so everyone runs at +25%(or +37 with +12% gear) movement speed. this tends to overlap the time when people pops oils and powders... so pretty useful unless your team all pops powder boots

Unless you got a lucky roll or #11 (which prolly takes way too many double ups for it's worth in NNI), it'd take 900s (15mins) (3secs for 1 tick to happen, 1 TP per tick, do correct me if my maths is wrong) or 450s (7min30) if you roll 9/10 (again require some lucky double ups). Even if you roll 11 it takes 3min45 to get 300 tp. If you're getting 300tp on your lamp floor then something is wrong.

[EDIT: okay, AF3 body gives +1 per tick, so that's still 7min30 on a typical roll, 5mins on a 9/10, 3min45 on a lucky roll and 3mins on #11]

I would be curious to see it mathed out how much double attack or overall DPS increase ~25% haste offers for 4 Heavy DDs vs the COR setup assuming capped gear haste and haste spell. My gut tells me it would be staggering.

That said, NNI has never really been about DPS. I haven't gone since the latest few updates, but below F80 DPS should be even less of a factor. Good communication and quick thinking are more important than buff duration. But, why take a less optimal setup simply because its annoying to have buffs wear. It was kinda annoying when embrava wore on a large kill-all when you happen to run into byakko and bune. Regardless how long a buff lasts, its going to wear, no real point in building a group around that. If anything I'd focus more on how long it takes to put them up!

Not sure why 7mins buff matters. Regen V lasts for just over 3mins with perpetuance, so march recast is probably pretty much inline with regen recast (my team also have phalanx up, so the 2nd march is pretty much inline with phalanx recast.. though reading from your tactics you guys don't put phalanx on, in which case, yes, you'd have a few seconds of delay for 2nd march). with Troubadour brd buffs last even longer of course, not to mention hastega from /smn would guarantee all your melee have haste all the time. It's very difficult for one sch to haste everyone since everyone runs off in all direction. But it might just be me being a very sucky sch (which i admit :P)

If buff duration(but not buff potency) is all you care, why don't you just don't bring a buff job at all, and make mages sleep/dispel?

No you didn't say said BRD is better than COR, but you did say COR can replace it and buff duration is all you care, and several ppl disagreed.

I used spreadsheet ages ago, although that's before SoA so I'm not sure if the result changed. But if I remember the result correctly, DDx3 + COR > DDx4. DDx4+BRD > DDx4+COR. That's assuming your COR is doing dmg and using better DD SJ than /WHM.

You should double check with spreadsheet though, I may be wrong.

The question isn't whether adding a COR would increase DPS or efficiency, the question is whether COR can realistically REPLACE a BRD.

Merc kris cor

So am i being called a liar lol....

because i think i have the gear to prove that COR can rep BRD and like i said i got 5 other people who prefer this setup

just not having to recast as much buffs is kinda nice is all ive been trying to say

As for DPS none of you said anything bout SC damage
we always Fudo Fudo Light
Ukko Ukko Light

I wonder how much that increases our DPS .....

im sure alot of groups do it with BRD but we arent Elitest and we dont have a good BRD and so we dont use a BRD we prefer COR now

The BRDs we have had cant seem to keep buffs up

Oh an yea our SCH gets bored and does AoE phalanx for us sometimes
just because somethings arent listed doesnt mean it isnt a given

Some Buffs arent needed for lamp floors though

the other guy i feel is right worry about DPS DPS DPS and you'll prolly fail ..... Work on Communication and good geared capable players

oh and COR stays at the rune so the differnce of SCH's regen 5 lasting 3 minutes and the BRDs Songs 3 minutes is someone has to be at rune .... but our SCH follows us so he keep casting Regen 5, Haste, Phalanx, paralyna etc... (do i have to list everything so people dont think we utilize our jobs properly)

COR does rolls every few jumps and stays at rune(thats all we have to wait on at rune) and its only every few floor jumps not every single jump

dont like waiting on both every single floor

i just dont understand how you guys dont see what im saying?
do you see it just choose not ot aknowledge it?

i dont care if you dont agree its outweighs BRD thats fine just tell me you see what im saying atleast lol

i think some of you dont give enough credit to how much running around you doing with tacticians (regain) up for 7 minutes at a time ... We always have TP to WS when we reach a mob

For boss floors im sure BRD would really shine there
(but got to get too 60 80 100 first)

DPS if you where ingaged meleeing the numbers would be incredibly different but you do a bunch of running to lamps, mobs, bosses, and leaders in NNI. March doesn't do much while running

Alot of times we use Embrava to Sweep floor 80 Boss fast
then 2 hour Floor 100 if Needed


im not sure how much Double March really helps you while you are running around and we typically one shot everything as soon as we engage

SAMs always have 100 TP atleast we dont really have to swing
(but i do have a true 5 hit build)

We use a BRD/COR, works well enough for us.

You do not need to wait for buffs on every single floor even if you wait for regen and phalanx to be casted. If you do that it means you're clearing floors way too slowly and that's something to work on. SCH can pop accession and Perpetuance before floor jump and cast Regen/phalanx straight away (super useful if it happens that the next floor restricts ja). so your wait at the pole shouldn't be more than 3-5seconds, even less since you can start running at midcast and you'd still be inrange for the buffs, not to mention you can start doing something useful such as tabbing to see where mobs/lamps are.

I don't get it. Your original post says your sch do regen V with Accession + perpetuance, and he skype to tell you guys to stay at the pole for recast. When I argue that's inline with bard buff so you lost no time to have bard, you now say he follows you to regen haste and phalanx... so which one does he actually do?

Assuming he follows you, i don't think that's realistically feasible, since you guys would be spread out, hence all he can do is Perpetuance Regen V, in order for a sch to put phalanx on you, he needs accession because phalanx can only be casted on himself. Paralyna tends to need an accession since it's usually a nm mob with ice spikes or some sort of AE move. Your sch is doing way too much and I find it to believe he can manage to keep up buffs up by and you'd run out of stratagems fast... It'd be hard to keep up regen phalanx and haste on every melee casting separately even in a camp situation (its' possible, but you'd be rebuffing continuously), let alone everyone going everywhere.

I'm guessing you're a DD in your group and thus not exactly knowing what your sch is doing, but at the moment he sounds pretty godly lol (which is possible, if that's the case you're pretty lucky :) and that might be another factor constituting to your win in a what people are believing to be a sub-optimal setup ).

Another thing is that I don't believe you need a pro-bard. you need a bard who isn't entirely stupid (use jas, cast the right buffs, knows how to pole dance). the bard in my group is a mule being 2boxed by a samurai, who leeched the said bard in worm pt up to 99 roughly 3 days before we started doing the event.

A thing to point out is that I don't think people are trying to catch you out, trying to say you're a liar. You've won, so you've proven that it works for you, all good. You kindly shared your strat in a forum, people who would be interested in reading are mostly people trying to conquer this event, whether to form a new group or improve their strategy. So this whole argument between cor or brd is actually quite valuable for them to take into account. So I wouldn't take it personally and i'd like to think that every valid argument has some use :P

Yep I see what you're saying and I acknowledge it. I'm just not convinced that for someone who is struggling to win this, telling them to ditch the brd and bring a cor is the answer. It's the same with people saying they hit 100 floors with 1H dds. Sure, and some people low man ADL too, but they probably are very well equipped. brd/smn sounds more optimal to me, whilst you and your 5 team members is convinced COR is the way to go, i think it's clear to see that the majority here thinks bard is better than COR for this situation (with their reasons explained) and this post merely reflects this. ^^

did i ever say my SCH waits at rune?

your picking words apart!!!!

we almost never have to wait at rune on jumps thats what im saying

buffs last longer so we have to wait less
(is this hard to grap)

why would our SCH not follow us i've said the COR camps rune several times

I SEE WHAT U MEAN - sounds like alot if all was demanded
the only thing that is important is Regen 5

EVERYTHING ELSE IS EXTRA U CAN SURVIVE WITH REGEN 5 ALONE
(dont train the whole floor above floor 80)
SNEAK/INVIS

a SCH can easily hit 2x DD at a time but sometimes he will ask for us to hold still so he can get all of us but its not all the time.

(COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE)
(I don't care what your setup is you'll loose if you dont)

oh and my SCH does phalanx when he wants its not something we ask for oh and he also does SHELL/PRO... its just little extra's he does but it isnt required to win REGEN 5 is Enough


so i guess our SCH works himself to death lol ... every 30 seconds you get a new strategem... its not that hard you can do all of it... NOT at once but you can keep these buffs up up if you rotate them


really only 3 AoE buffs Phalanx, Regen 5, Adloquium
Acession + Perpetuence + Cast is 2 Strategems

Adloquium - with regain up from COR it stacks but its not as important(we dont need it he does it without being told)

Phalanx - is really only good at higher lvls Since floor 60 and below Monsters are really weak

Regen 5 - THIS IS WHAT SAVES YOUR HIDE --- just get this off the other buffs are all butterfly's and rainbow's


With 2x /WHM you get alot of Paralyna,Silena,Viruna,Cursna etc
and they toss haste's and cure's
(Great for Boss Floors)

they are just trying to help only thing we let them know is debuffs
rest they are fully capable of doing on there own


i have SCH too and i have won on SCH with this setup
SCH COR SAMx4

I go DD mainly because we like the SAM's and everyone knows i have a true 5 hit build (4+ WS)

(47 STP masamune/WS in 16 STP = 100.5 STP (5 hits)
just incase soemone wants to argue that too lol

so in summary

gimp masa guy wins sometimes and wants everyone to accept his setup as perfect

you haven't shown us any new concepts dude, and you're just plain wrong about brd vs cor

I think you're picking my words apart. I never said or assumed your sch is the pole dancer.... OTZ Nor do i assume he doesn't pro/shell.. btw does he cure IV? that's pretty important when it's needed! (joke...)

Your last post, everything you said there bar COR specific is what everyone do who have remote success in NNI (arbeit slight variations). Not sure how that contributes to the COR argument to be honest.


I think you're right man. I should never try to have a logical debate with a guy who likes to type caps, random bold and underline to begin with. I give up.

though Adloquium is interesting, I never thought about casting it. Might try it sometimes since my group never worries about the 3secs they have to stay at the pole. Though with a "true 5 hit build", hastega and double march it's effect might not be too visible. ^^

i heard of a group doing BRD/SMN i guess for hastega

i just dont think Marchx2 is so important in NNI doing this much running around

A uber gimp COR can get lucky numbers and really help with the regain (and they do last longer)

before people only did 2x SCH the haste from Embarva and regain

we hardly ever casted Haste or regen 5 lol
(I ran on SCH alot back then)
wasn't needed to win .........




and yea my 85 masamune is gimp .... can get a Delve weapon in a day go Pro/Elitest's

it doesnt matter just bare minimum anymore to have a atleast a 85 empyrean


never said we where the best just we do pretty good

But go BRD spamm its cool just was trying to help others win and share

Attack speed isn't incredibly important, it's pivotal.

you sir... Fail

No, Afania is correct. Attack speed will easily destroy any type of cor buff. There is no point for cor buffs, the mobs die to quick... You can easily drop them with 1-2 WS and extreme haste will make that pretty fast. You can't beat Haste DPS with TP regen and double attack.