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Matsui: "Don't throw away your R/M/E weapons yet"
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-26 22:59:39
I hope they add something to the weapons in addition to dmg boost. Adding Mighty Guard to Tizona!
Instead you'll get Frog Drop
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-26 23:01:37
I'm hoping for a STR modifier tweak or fTP mod or something for Kaiten. I love my Amano and I will 99 it regardless of if the skirmish GK is surprisingly great or not.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-04-26 23:12:31
In all honesty, if he doesn't apologize for comments that may be misconstrued as hostile to RME owners, he risks users throwing him the middle finger and cutting off their accounts. He has to turn on "Cover My ***" mode now and then if something he says gets taken out of context and could threaten his job.
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Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-04-26 23:34:18
I hope they add something to the weapons in addition to dmg boost. Adding Mighty Guard to Tizona!
Yesprz, though I wouldn't mind expiacion not sucking complete ***.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-26 23:47:44
I hope they add something to the weapons in addition to dmg boost. Adding Mighty Guard to Tizona!
Yesprz, though I wouldn't mind expiacion not sucking complete ***.
Someday the designers of that WS will be forced to atone for their sins
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Quetzalcoatl.Avengers
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By Quetzalcoatl.Avengers 2013-04-27 00:02:04
I think the only clear would be to just go back and add + damage to the 90-99 versions of the REMs.
If I remember correctly, didn't Devs say before that a piece of gear can only have so many properties to it? I think we can rule out Delve as a solution to this.
I can see the ghostly stones as a possible solution though.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-04-27 00:07:30
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »90-99 People with weapons below 99 don't need buffs, they have the option to enhance the weapon still. It'd be silly for new ***to not require 99 version.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-27 00:10:04
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »I think the only clear would be to just go back and add + damage to the 90-99 versions of the REMs.
If I remember correctly, didn't Devs say before that a piece of gear can only have so many properties to it? I think we can rule out Delve as a solution to this.
I can see the ghostly stones as a possible solution though.
There is a limit but that doesn't mean they can't program new characteristics to fit in limited space (see Rubeus boots)
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers
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By Quetzalcoatl.Avengers 2013-04-27 00:10:40
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »I think the only clear would be to just go back and add + damage to the 90-99 versions of the REMs.
If I remember correctly, didn't Devs say before that a piece of gear can only have so many properties to it? I think we can rule out Delve as a solution to this.
I can see the ghostly stones as a possible solution though.
There is a limit but that doesn't mean they can't program new characteristics to fit in limited space (see Rubeus boots)
PS2 Limitations? >_> I see a SE excuse coming on....
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-04-27 00:11:58
I wouldn't be against a smaller boon to the <99 version, but putting the majority of the boost on 99 vers would be even greater incentive to not stop at 90 for empyrean or 95 on relics. If you have a mythic, there's not excuse for it to not be 99 aside from "I'm still farming PW popsets"
And "PS2 limitations" wouldn't fly. Weapons already have space for damage-rating and "X-weaponskill +Y%" which is all that would need to be affected. Wanting any more increases than those is setting your desires and expectations too high imo.
Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-04-27 00:42:48
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »Just add 10-20dmg to each RME's 99-form and give the WS's a bigger +% bonus. Quick, easy, done. (Though those words are likely why SE would never do it that way.
I would say some damage, and a new aftermath trait that is specific to the jobs that can use it. Like Cure Potancy and Casting time on the hammer, recycle on Annihalator, Store TP on Yoichi, SKillchain damage on amano, etc, etc.
The "new aftermath" part is really a bad idea.
For improvement they can make the fTP scale on relics and raise the base DMG.
But, there will probably be something different.
Anyway I don't want them to touch the aftermaths, it will result in a nerf again...
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-27 00:46:06
I mean they could touch SOME of the aftermaths
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-27 00:50:11
I mean they could touch SOME of the aftermaths
nin/mnk/drg I can think of off the top of my head, but honestly a lot of them aren't THAT bad.
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers
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By Quetzalcoatl.Avengers 2013-04-27 01:13:24
Unless they REALLY changed the aftermaths, which I doubt, if they didn't touch the damage, people still wouldn't use REMs
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-04-27 01:20:51
wat
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-04-27 01:23:22
Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-04-27 01:44:00
Quetzalcoatl.Landsoul
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By Quetzalcoatl.Landsoul 2013-04-27 01:46:07
Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »Unless they REALLY changed the aftermaths, which I doubt, if they didn't touch the damage, people still wouldn't use REMs YouTube Video Placeholder
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Quetzalcoatl.Avengers
Server: Quetzalcoatl
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Posts: 220
By Quetzalcoatl.Avengers 2013-04-27 01:47:51
Quetzalcoatl.Landsoul said: »Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »Unless they REALLY changed the aftermaths, which I doubt, if they didn't touch the damage, people still wouldn't use REMs YouTube Video Placeholder
Nice, I love that part of the movie ^_^
Fenrir.Jinjo
VIP
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2013-04-27 01:49:41
Between Lye and that, this thread is likely to hoist intelligence out of readers.
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Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-04-27 03:03:43
Without REM the economy would fall flat. People farm many things to upgrade these items. If relics fail, dynamics currency is worth toilet paper. Salvage would be dead, alexes would be rocks. And VW would be dead HMP cinders and dross would be so little gil.
And its not only these items. People farm these things to sell to REM builders. Ad they use that gil to buy armor, spells, level up crafting or whatever.
If all these three options REM crashed the economy would take a huge nose dive.
Their should be a new type of relic but that should be a year after the expansion.
SE will update the REM, do you remember MM scythe? The scythe from the worm notourous monster in abby at worm exp camp. When it came out it outclassed apoc. in base dmg. But they buffed the REM's for that reason. It just took time.
My thinking they have to stay the best as they unlock a weapon skill that can only be used with that weapon. Vs something unlocked you can use on any weapon of that type later.
Why should I unlock a new weapon skill if I will just get a random drop weapon and spam a 96 weapon sill with.
Me I just upgraded to empy staff 99 last night. "Ahnyeuem" I be dammed if my hard work and all the gil grinding was worthless. Most people can't even get 95 let alone 99.
These new weapons don't even have a weapon skill. So they feel like garbage.
If SE does not update this, then no one will ever go for an afterglow weapon what cost 500m - 1.5b gilsink depending on server and item needed. Again the whole economy will collapse.
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Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-04-27 03:08:56
What is MM scythe?
Pardon my ignorance :/
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-04-27 03:14:13
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Why should I unlock a new weapon skill if I will just get a random drop weapon and spam a 96 weapon sill with.
Me I just upgraded to empy staff 99 last night. "Ahnyeuem" I be dammed if my hard work and all the gil grinding was worthless. Most people can't even get 95 let alone 99.
These new weapons don't even have a weapon skill. So they feel like garbage.
I'm sorry but the parts I bolded and underlined are making me crack up hysterically... Seriously.
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-04-27 03:25:36
What is MM scythe?
Pardon my ignorance :/
Probably Plaga Scythe from Megamaw Mikey.
If that was sarcasm though sorry. :x
Your correct. I did add that to my original post.
Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2013-04-27 03:31:30
What is MM scythe?
Pardon my ignorance :/
Probably Plaga Scythe from Megamaw Mikey.
If that was sarcasm though sorry. :x
No it wasn't sarcasm. Megamaw Mikey didn't come to my mind that's all.
By mattyc 2013-04-27 04:03:53
this thread made me lol, to the point i need zzz's
Bahamut.Bekisa
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By Bahamut.Bekisa 2013-04-27 04:08:08
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Quetzalcoatl.Avengers said: »90-99 People with weapons below 99 don't need buffs, they have the option to enhance the weapon still. It'd be silly for new ***to not require 99 version.
You heard is here folks: SE will want RME's fully completed with trials prior to upgrading further. The final trial is Afterglow currently. I hope SE isn't this stupid though they have been with other trial items and the Porter Moogle system.
Afterglow or they will say "RME's upgraded beyond 75 through Trials will be unable to receive buffs" just like RME's cannot be replaced if lost past 75 due to their silly backup system.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-04-27 04:08:54
You heard is here folks: SE will want RME's fully completed with trials prior to upgrading further. The final trial is Afterglow currently. I hope SE isn't this stupid though they have been with other trial items and the Porter Moogle system. except se explicitly said they planned on including 99s that aren't afterglowed last month
04-26-2013 12:52 PM | Akihiko Matsui | Dev Team | |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
05-09-2013 10:15 AM | Slycer | BG Translator | |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
05-09-2013 2:19 PM | Akihiko Matsui | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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19 |
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18 |
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17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
16 |
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15 |
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14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
12 |
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11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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10 |
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9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
8 |
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7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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6 |
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Skirmish |
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5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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4 |
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3 |
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2 |
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1 |
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Content Level |
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Up to April 2013 |
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Next version update (currently adjusting) |
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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
↓
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
↓
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
↓
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
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