Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2013-03-28 20:26:54
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Why would you want to take longer than needed to do something?
 Asura.Rekin
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By Asura.Rekin 2013-03-28 20:30:54
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Enuyasha said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
If everyone but the pld is dying horribly instantly, you aren't going to kill whatever the *** you're fighting ever.
with Zerg tactics no :| But you know, in case the time comes where the events arent Zergfest events.
With the quote about them making mobs no longer "KILL IT, KILL IT RIGHT THE *** NOW" perhaps. But if the new mobs are just that but now with magic abilities that dream dies. Also if everything still has the 30min time restraint then any real dream of tanking beyond wipe control also dies. Chances are the new HNMs will probably have a rage timer.

Honestly if they wanted to make "traditional" tanking worth a damn from PLD the devs would allow it to drain enmity from the entire alliance with abilities if we're still using the current way enmity works(well aware of the update). A more productive means to make classic tanking viable is to overhaul the whole damn enmity system. That is not happening ever I imagine.
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-28 20:31:25
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Bahamut.Serj said: »
Why would you want to take longer than needed to do something?
garunteed victory. Or you know, because it has to be done that way or you will wipe. Or hey, feeling like your at 75 again (like most asked for).

Point being, ***changed a bit and you are talking from the point where we didnt need tanks because they were "useless". Now, they may not be "useless" anymore but the mindset still continues that we can zerg the *** down even if we cant.

Asura.Rekin said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
If everyone but the pld is dying horribly instantly, you aren't going to kill whatever the *** you're fighting ever.
with Zerg tactics no :| But you know, in case the time comes where the events arent Zergfest events.
With the quote about them making mobs no longer "KILL IT, KILL IT RIGHT THE *** NOW" perhaps. But if the new mobs are just that but now with magic abilities that dream dies. Also if everything still has the 30min time restraint then any real dream of tanking beyond wipe control also dies. Chances are the new HNMs will probably have a rage timer.

Yea, my little tanking rant depends highly on that. But, what is also awesome about that..is you can zerg...but you can zerg smarter too...you know, ensuring survival but still killing relatively quickly.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 20:34:47
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Enuyasha said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Enuyasha said: »
The kind where they know what theyre doing

You have yet to answer the question. Here is your great chance to prove Saevel wrong. Show how the abilities and their respective hate values will generate more enmity then damage. Remember we know exactly how enmity is calculated so no fibbing.
they wont generate more enmity immediately but rather over time. the fun thing about DDtanks is they bleed CE/VE. A PLD takes less damage and with a few choice pieces looses less enmity while doing so. I can also say that i notice RUNs abilities grant WAY more enmity than a normal ability does. so, if it transfers well, PLD/rnf may be a great long term fight choice than ZERGZERGZERG. We are not in the wonderful land of proc and laugh as the mob tries to oneshot you with its physical weaponskill. These fights (or so they seem) will be longer and will prolly result in lots of dead DD's where you need a REAL Tank class and not some improvised DD fluke.

You have that reversed. A PLD would hold initial hate due to the VE spike. After a length of time the CE generation from the DDs surpasses the hate of the PLD. Once that happens the DD is now the tang.

DD do not bleed hate. Thanks to team kanican we know how much CE is lost on damage. Well everyone but you it seems. The bottom line is that our HP isnt high enough to bleed significant amounts of enmity. Anything that would remove more hate then a weak DD is generating would also kill the DD. This is why DT sets are necessary for any serious DD.

Your definition of tank is irrevelant. Tank has three functions that i have already listed above. Meet those three and ur a tank.
You will still die anyway, so whats the point really? you seem to forget that a PLD has more DEF abilities/tricks than a DRK whom lowers his DEF to increase his attack opening them to large damage spikes. A WAR does the same. SAM is a TankDD anyway so im not going to argue that, anyway, the point being if the fights are longer and all your DD are getting raped out the *** by damage a PLD should be used as they will have less trouble staying alive and up (hey, even doing damage.) while the group is recouperating. Like i said, we are not in tempnuub land where any DD can tank and survive. Even with DT- sets, they will die a horrible death.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Everything u just listed is horribly wrong. Defense is an incrediably poor mitigator of damage unless its in large quantities. And by large i dont mean the pitiful amount that PLD gets.

Incase you havent noticed DDs tank everything right now. Nothing SE has published so far will change that. They will still ride berserk and last resort, WHMs will still cure them with nearly free curagas. The monsters will still die.

U must still be in shock from finding out that nothing will change. You should find a support group and talk about it. I will feel good to share your dissapointment and anguish with others rather then living in denial. Denial isnt healthy for you.
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 Asura.Rekin
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By Asura.Rekin 2013-03-28 20:37:23
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Enuyasha said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Why would you want to take longer than needed to do something?
garunteed victory. Or you know, because it has to be done that way or you will wipe. Or hey, feeling like your at 75 again (like most asked for).

Point being, ***changed a bit and you are talking from the point where we didnt need tanks because they were "useless". Now, they may not be "useless" anymore but the mindset still continues that we can zerg the *** down even if we cant.

Asura.Rekin said: »
Enuyasha said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
If everyone but the pld is dying horribly instantly, you aren't going to kill whatever the *** you're fighting ever.
with Zerg tactics no :| But you know, in case the time comes where the events arent Zergfest events.
With the quote about them making mobs no longer "KILL IT, KILL IT RIGHT THE *** NOW" perhaps. But if the new mobs are just that but now with magic abilities that dream dies. Also if everything still has the 30min time restraint then any real dream of tanking beyond wipe control also dies. Chances are the new HNMs will probably have a rage timer.

Yea, my little tanking rant depends highly on that. But, what is also awesome about that..is you can zerg...but you can zerg smarter too...you know, ensuring survival but still killing relatively quickly.
From recent memory the only "smart" zerg I've seen by your standards would probably be HP% triggered "alliance death wave motion cannon" attacks. In which case instead of getting a pld/run/nin/wtfever people just buff up defensively thus making the "tank" worthless in every regard since by that point most likely a DD will have already taken and maintained their hate.

EDIT: oh and doing a fight with HP triggered wipaga moves isn't fun/exciting/challenging its *** gimmicky. Rather than cause players to step back and consider all the cards most veterans will just say "hold dmg here and have the blm nuke it after the ally has run out of range of the cheapdeathfailmove" like Citadel Buster. I remember tanking that ***at 75 on pld and the only reason I was tanking it is because of the ridiculous amount of PDT it had on top of that move. Otherwise the fight had no real substance and the only strat aside SC+MB+DOTs was to dmg it until it hit those oh so wonderful hp% thresholds.
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-28 20:39:47
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"Right Now" isnt yesterday. PLD has far more defense than a DRK and has access to pretty much alot of DEF abilities. sure, DD's will ride Berserk and LAst Resort and Souleater, but they will be in twilight mail faster than *** all and zombieing ***too.

But yea, tactics is fairly a hard concept to grab for a simple person wielding a greatsword. But try it, it works wonders.

Im just going to stop replying on this matter here. Because now you are being *** combative. And honestly, shits not going to change even when it has.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-28 20:45:30
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Holy ***, this thread....
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-28 20:46:14
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Holy ***, this thread....

Anyway, evasion tanking not gunna work: continue.

And: I may be eyeballing it, but does rune enspell damage go up with higher weapon base damage?
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-28 21:13:48
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Enuyasha said: »
"Right Now" isnt yesterday. PLD has far more defense than a DRK and has access to pretty much alot of DEF abilities. sure, DD's will ride Berserk and LAst Resort and Souleater, but they will be in twilight mail faster than *** all and zombieing ***too.

But yea, tactics is fairly a hard concept to grab for a simple person wielding a greatsword. But try it, it works wonders.

Im just going to stop replying on this matter here. Because now you are being *** combative. And honestly, shits not going to change even when it has.

Completely untrue. Its obvious u dont even play anymore. PLD had about 50~60 more defense then a DRK. They both have the same gear. There is a really good reason people ignore defense and it had nothing to do with the old 2.0 cap. Nothing had changed that will change the status quot.

Nothing I have said is untrue. Its the raw situation of the game as of today. Fairy dust and unicorn farts do not change the mechanics server side. If you feel uncomfortable hearing the truth then the problem lies between your ears.
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-28 21:17:47
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Whater sir, move on.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-28 21:47:45
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Here's an actual RUN question -_-... Hec cap+1. Is it really only pulling ahead because of the augments of DA+ on it over Nemetona Cap?
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-28 22:09:06
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Enuyasha said: »
I may be eyeballing it, but does rune enspell damage go up with higher weapon base damage?
This was a real srs bsns question ;A;
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-28 22:10:03
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Enuyasha said: »
Enuyasha said: »
I may be eyeballing it, but does rune enspell damage go up with higher weapon base damage?
This was a real srs bsns question ;A;

That's something you can easily go out and test in 5m though.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-03-28 22:13:32
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It looks like Rune Fencer is more about the Multi-attack damage. DA/TA/QA even. It's bound to get pretty intense considering it can use various tp gear with tons of DA and TA on it.
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 Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2013-03-28 23:01:54
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This may have een already answered and I just can't find it... but I thought runes stacked like steps do, or was I mistaken? Because its doesnt seem to be doing that, or is based on level? I'm only level 10 so far.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-28 23:05:58
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Shiva.Tedril said: »
This may have een already answered and I just can't find it... but I thought runes stacked like steps do, or was I mistaken? Because its doesnt seem to be doing that, or is based on level? I'm only level 10 so far.

yes it's been answered, after a certain level you can stack 2, then you can triple stack. Also the answer to your question is in the OP with specific level break downs.....
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-03-28 23:40:11
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edited OP to add more things
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By laydygaga 2013-03-29 01:46:54
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Also Taru Taru sash for th if you were to use that
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By Enuyasha 2013-03-29 01:54:14
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Should we really be using Lnge in ENM- gear :<
 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2013-03-29 01:57:17
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Depends if RUN turns out to be a dps/support job or a tank job, I guess.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-29 01:59:52
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Would the Sigyn Mask be good for tp? Dropping 1% haste and the 4STP from skadi+1 (and w/e crit bonus) for 2TA be worth it?
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-03-29 02:00:17
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RUN has a lot of interesting tools available as a subjob!
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2013-03-29 02:31:54
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i bet with AF the number of max runes will increase. I can see them going 5 with the other 2 added on from gear. 3 just seems kinda low for me, idk why.


edit- did they ever say if RUN+GEO will have any AF3 from abyssea?
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-03-29 02:34:52
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Yeah they will. We've even seen artwork of what's possibly the empyrean armor of RUN and GEO. GEO gets the funny hat from FF5.
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 Ragnarok.Taereon
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By Ragnarok.Taereon 2013-03-29 02:50:26
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Dear SE,


I noticed you forgot to give RUN Temper. So go ahead and do that in the next update. -Taereon.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-03-29 03:34:43
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I love this job!
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By Quetzacoatl 2013-03-29 03:39:27
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Leviathan.Kincard said: »
GEO gets the funny hat from FF5.
I need proof that SE says they're going to get that design for AF3. . . I personally thought it would just be some sort of JSE gear.

/sigh time to learn to dat mod.
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By Artemicion 2013-03-29 03:41:18
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I love this job!

The best part is, the class is in it's infancy. So I can only imagine how much more refined and developed it will become down the line.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-03-29 03:58:21
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Ragnarok.Taereon said: »
Dear SE,


I noticed you forgot to give RUN Temper. So go ahead and do that in the next update. -Taereon.

This is one of the few cases where I'd agree to give some of RDM's native self buffs to another job. RUN's design seems to be a melee that enhances itself while dealing elemental damage and reducing incoming elemental damage. So I can see Temper / Gain-Stat type stuff fitting in.
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