Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

While it is a little annoying to require specific stats for each element pulse, it's at least tempered a lot by the current policy of stat vomit on ilevel stuff. Probably not really missing out on a whole ton in the visible slots.

Hell, PUP had similar issues back in 75cap-land with different element maneuvers generating more burden toward overload based on whether you had higher related stat than the automaton. Of course, it wasn't enough of a big deal to actually justify gearing for it other than maybe a few specific use cases (i.e. have enough INT gear to allow for easier spamming ice maneuvers when using a BLM puppet).

The macro/spellcast stuff is probably the more annoying part to me. Personally, I'll probably just write up a line of macros for max stat of each element (of the gear I'm already carrying anyway) and put them on in an out-of-the-way place in my macro books. Copy the one that I intend to use the most for whatever given event over to my primary lines of macros, since I don't run into many situations where I'm wildly switching between elements in the same event.


As far as I can tell... well, I still don't see any really compelling reason to want RUNs in endgame, sadly. It's still not really practical to hold hate against any decent DD as far as I can see, and the new JAs don't make that much of a difference.

I was really excited to get my ugly salmon set and see if the modifications helped any, kinda pumped about the prospect of RUN being useful for something other than weird novelties. I was let down after dragging my RUN to a few events where I thought it might be pretty good (lowman Delve, for one) and seeing pretty poor performance. I still couldn't hold hate, and the benefit of some AoE buffs certainly didn't outweigh the much greater benefit I would have had from just coming on a better DD like MNK. I have a pretty well geared RUN - 119 weapon, all the appropriate ilevel gear (well, no 119 relic armor quite yet but still, good stuff), and still can't really find a way to justify it in event content.

I really don't see the difference between 228/242 skill on 119 weapons being that big of a deal when there's no demand to bring a RUN to the hard stuff anyway. For instance, for AAs you're better off with either (1) a tank who can hold hate better (PLD) - and even then the dedicated tank strategies rely on low enmity DDs, or (2) for some setups, particularly on lower than VD difficulty, going without a dedicated tank and using a team of DDs that do more damage than RUN.

If your playing RUN as a tank then your failing FFXI 101. RUN is to tanking as DNC is to main healing. My WAR will tank better then RUN.
RUN is a DD that deals magic damage and can become immune to a specific element. SE needs to release a GS with 242 skill and +mdmg. Also needs to put RUN on a 119 sword to better enable the magic damage angle.

Run has an easier time than pld to build and keep hate; the issue with it atm is that I can only see it tanking /nin and going for evasion tanking wich mean you'll die if the mob get lucky :(.

Soon I'll totally bring it to VD AA!

They should increase parry rate in general, make a spell that increases parry rate for RUN or adjust Foil so it would increase parry against special attacks in addition to it's main function.

And none of that will help out. Enmity generation in FFXI is so wildly tilted towards damage that there isn't any real tanking outside of decoy shot shenanigans. RUN takes physical damage like tissue paper. No amount of evasion will help you on serious content, the NMs have 200%+ hit rates. THF, with all its crazy evasion bonus still can't dodge worth a damn.

They decreased damage enmity even further and I think there's more adjustments coming in march? Anyway, i haven't played much lately but it should take a while now for a dd to actually cap.

I suspect that's what critical parry does.

I think they mistranslated that and it probably might be Tactical Parry instead. I remember testing it out with once with +1 and while using battuta it gave me +6. I might be wrong about it, need someone else to try to test this with either NQ or +1 Futhark Boots if they gain the result of +1/+2 more TP from either of these feet

I like the whole run is a magic damage dealer melee angle. What SE should do is give RUN a weaponskill, either naturally learned or on relic/mythic/whatever greatsword, that does magical damage at the expense of runes. The element of the damage is based on the type of runes. Should give it a high base damage and high magic accuracy to keep it useful in this magic evasive content, perhaps even make it ignore magic defense.... Anyway, one things for sure, they should it give a higher damage benefit for hitting an enemies weakness with this new weaponskill:

Say we have a mandragora that is weak to fire/ice/lightning and strong to water.

-3 runes of any type that are not fire/ice/water/lightning = 100% damage
-3 fire/ice/lightning (all the same type) runes = 150% damage
- 2 fire, 1 ice or lightning = 175% damage
- 1 fire, 1 ice, 1 lightning = 200% damage
- for each water rune active -25% damage

etc etc. It would be cool to have to know the weaknesses of each mob type again. I missed when knowing the magic damage weaknesses actually meant something.

Edit: edited for horrendous grammatical errors >.>

Is that really a role that's even desired in FFIX? A subpar magic DD with some good element-specific damage resistance?

Also, need to qualify that as "RUN is a DD that deals [a mediocre amount of] magic damage [on a 90sec/3min JA timer and requiring JA spam to further lower DPS]... And yes, I currently have a nearly flawless MAB set for Lunge/Swipe, still has pretty disappointing damage potential when factoring in the 90/180sec JA timers.

And even if you do want a DD who can deal magic damage, for that role (not that it's usually terribly important) I'd probably rather bring a BLU anyway, or even just a straight up nuking BLM if magic damage was the real priority. There are a bunch of other jobs that can also contribute moderate magic damage, which isn't enough of a reason for people to care (see: COR Quick Draw, PUP with BLM puppet, SMN, RDM, SCH...)


I really don't think one moderately improved weapon is the magic bullet that suddenly makes the job useful and makes people think they gotta get a RUN for that DD slot. And besides, what you describe is only a moderate improvement over the already existing Tunglmyrkvi (228 skill, MAB+10, pretty nice DMG/delay), certainly not such a huge difference that it would radically change the job enough to suddenly make it in demand.


If you're playing it as a DD, I'd say you're also failing FFXI 101 since there are lots of better DDs. So basically, playing RUN at all means you're failing FFXI 101, with few exceptions of quirky "just because I can" solos.

S-E at least wants to say they're interested in RUN being a tank, and stuff like the heavy DT-/MDT pieces available in the AF/Relic sets supports that design goal. Whether it's at all reasonable to think the game supports a tank/DD strong against magic is highly debatable, and tanking/enmity mechanics obviously need more overhaul to make it viable. But if RUN has any chance at all, that's probably it just because there's less competition for the slot.

What exactly do you think that added effect on every swing is doing?


It's on Anahera sword, although it could use at least one more option .

His comments make absolutely no sense ... RUN doesn't JA spam, not if you know how to play DD anyway. You have 2 damage JA's, one of which is on a 3min timer, both of which are a net positive damage increase. If anything RUN's are spamming spells trying to "tank" which ends up having them sacrifice the #1 highest enmity source in the game.

It's as though he's never done any delve cause non-physical DD are key to many of the strategies, not to mention RUN destroys the shark.

Anyhow there are plenty of heavy DD's that will run circles around RUN for pure damage, and tanking in FFXI is non-existent. That leaves two categories, support or utility. RUN has nothing to offer for support but it has utility, notably it's party protection against magic damage, natural magic based damage on swings and JA's and A rank sword skill to effectively utilize Requiescat. The only thing it's really missing, other then 242 skill weapons, is a hasso like JA that turns it's melee attacks into magic damage of the appropriate rune. Basically formless strikes but without the cool down. Would give RUN a solid role it could fill and while it wouldn't be needed in every single event, it would be useful if not key in many.

There already is a fairly potent GS magic WS.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Herculean_Slash

3.5 fTP, 60% VIT but no dSTAT term. A GS with a MDMG +90~120 would make it decent enough for when you need pure magic, raising it's fTP to 4.5 or 5 would do amazing things for it.

How do you get Runes back up? Oh yeah, a JA with a 5 second timer. With runes that are wiped when you Lunge/Swipe. I'm not saying it makes the JAs not worth it, but it's unfortunate that RUN has to use as many JAs as it does and take a DPS hit due to the typical cycle of stuff like:
1) Swipe [start with 3 runes already up, time 0:00]
2) rune
3) Lunge
4-6) rune x3
7) Swipe (1min after first Swipe, assuming no wasted time)
8) rune

Um... that's 8 JAs in just over 60 seconds of DDing and assumes you already had 3 active runes at start. Are you really telling me there's no impact from JA lag/delay with that amount of abilities being used? As someone who also plays other JA intensive jobs like DNC and PUP, I can tell you that this kind of JA spamming has been a known issue hurting those jobs' DD potential for years. RUN is just a new member to the club.


If you want a DD with subpar melee power, but with lots of damage mitigation tricks and other "utility", added elemental damage on melee strikes (Enspell IIs), acess to Requiescat... well, there's already melee RDM. Those don't get invited to DD slots for damn good reason, why should RUN be any different?

Please, for the sake of RUN not becoming even more of a laughingstock to the rest of the FFXI community, let's not get behind a concerted effort to sell the job as MeleeRDM +1...


I've done lots of Delve. I can't figure out how to justify bringing RUN over a better DD, even though I'd love to because I think it would be fun to bring my own RUN.

As a leader, why would I invite a RUN when I can bring a MNK who can also cause non-physical damage (Formless), do FAR more overall damage, have a much more useful DD 1hr, and also wreck the shark (MNK/RUN)? Have you ever parsed a run and seen a RUN beat well geared MNKs? If your MNKs are losing to RUNs, quite simply, your MNKs suck. If your problem is not being able to survive without RUN's party damage mitigation, your strategy is off in some other fundamental way.

I WANT RUN to be good, I've tried to gear mine well and compete. But I've come to the painful realization that whenever I do come RUN, I would have helped my group more by coming on another job (like MNK).


And it's pretty well settled in most of the FFXI community that the "utility" RUN brings to the table just isn't enough to make it worth choosing over another job if available. The party protection against magic damage is nice, but isn't something you can keep up consistently enough to base a strategy on for tough content - i.e. if you really cared about damage reduction, you're gonna rely on stuff like good WHMs, Scherzo, Magus' Roll, Earthen Armor, etc... all of which are more reliable than staking your strategy on Valiance or One For All effect being up. Won't lie though, Valiance Fast Cast is pretty damn nice for supporting your mages - one of the more practical uses of RUN.


OK, I agree with you there. Fulltime elemental melee damage would be pretty damn helpful and would create a legitimate niche for RUN. Too bad it doesn't exist now, but I like the idea.

Still, FFXI today, as in post-February 2014 update... I just don't see a good spot for RUN in group content. It's not just me, I really don't see anyone else clamoring to invite RUNs to group events. I wish the Feb update had changed that, doesn't seem like it made much difference though.

Yeah ... you got no idea how that works.

Damage is averaged over time. WAR has, Berserk, Aggressor, Blood Rage, Warcry, Hasso, Retaliation, Restraint and Meditate. Those can all be poped within seconds of each other but we don't go around saying WAR has 9 JA's in 60s. Lunge requires 3 runes to restore, each rune is a 2s pause for 7s total pause time (delay after lunge is only 1s if you immediately use another rune). Rune's also add damage to your swings and enable your defensive tools so there is an incentive to keep them up. So unless you suck hard, Lunge is a net position in damage. Swipe is only 1 rune on a 90s timer for 3s of delay, and again unless you suck it should be a net positive in damage.

+MDMG works on both wipe and lunge as an increase to base damage, BLU/RUN's are running around doing ridiculous amounts of damage with the AA sword. They are also elemental damage, which would be the entire purpose of taking a RUN to begin with due to the NM having particular damage resistances that require it.


Because your brain is frozen. RUN competes with BLU for the requiescat slot on Krab. One RUN per party with the other two slots being whatever you want (don't need /RUN). About the only thing that RUN doesn't work on is AA's, but anything not RNG or NIN doesn't work well on those. Currently the job is lacking in utility due to SE being short sighted and everyone trying to cram it into a "tank" slot where it gets destroyed. It's just like BLU and DNC, a utility melee. That's why I'm hoping that SE push's the non-physical damage angle as it's something we are lacking right now since Twilight Scyth got nerfed. Do that and it would instantly have a role in many fights.

I'm not interested in a personal argument, can we drop the silly personal attacks? It's pretty obvious we both have a shared interest in RUN and neither of us are clueless about FFXI...


The big difference is that something like a WAR or MNK can generally pop their JAs before a mob. RUN has no choice but to use them mid-fight since Lunge/Swipe are actual damage dealing abilities that then require you to get runes back up for their other benefits.

Honestly, I think it would be much better if we didn't have three runes and could use one only (at full current 3x Rune power) while sacrificing the ability to have multiple elements up. How often are you really mixing multiple elements in your three active runes? (not to get too off topic, but I feel like it's an extension of FFXI copying PUP's maneuver mechanics over to runes without really thinking that there's a much bigger need for PUP to actually mix elements to trigger specific automaton attachments...)


I'm not saying Lunge/Swipe aren't a net gain in damage, but it's a shame that using them is tied to a significant about of JA lag that hurts RUNs potential to be even better.

It's also nothing to do with a player "sucking", Lunge is a pretty simple formula and you either have the MAB gear and weapon skill or you don't. I have a near flawless Lunge set, my Lunges do a nice chunk of damage on a long 3min timer. I still think the JA and its related mechanics have issues.


RUN competing for one niche spot based on being strong against a single lesser NM in one Delve zone (RUN kinda sucks in Ceizak/Morimar) isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the job being more useful than alternatives in endgame events.

Besides, you don't need RUN or BLU on Krab... and certainly not one PER PARTY, that's insane overkill that hampers your DD in the entire rest of the zone. There's a reason MNK army is popular, it's effective (hi, Formless). Can take out that NM and then double RUN's damage throughout the rest of the run, why would I bring a RUN if I had a choice to bring another MNK, or a Mura SAM, or even a BLU? Hell, a good COR is fine for Requiescat and you probably have CORs anyway.


RUN "works" on lots of stuff. But other DD jobs just work better on that same stuff. So why bring a RUN over them? There's no compelling reason.

(also, PUP DRG are solid AA DDs with a PLD tank setup too, thanks to their enmity dump abilities. THF is even semi-reasonable. But yes, your point is true that RUN isn't very helpful on AAs.)


I can't blame players for trying to play the job for the role S-E tells us it's designed for, as supported further by the AF/Relic armor sets. You're probably right that in its current state, RUN is indeed best as a utility melee like BLU or DNC. But those are also jobs that basically get left out of a lot of endgame content. Welcome to the pity party?


I'm really with you on this idea. Even fits perfectly with the lore of a fencer using elemental power to alter their attacks. And I completely agree that it's an unfilled niche that actually is potentially useful in content that matters.

Unfortunately that's not the current state of the job. Now it's just a mediocre DD or a mediocre MDT- tank. They have to make it better in one of those roles, or else it's always going to get picked for events after jobs that do those tasks better.

It's weird I like the job but what it breaks down for me is if it didn't take physical damage like a sponge it be pretty nice. The game has enough quasi/utility dd slots to shake a stick at it would be real nice if it had a legit second tank slot from pld w' ochain or aegis onry... Give it JA like fandance and be done with it lol this parry ***seems only for weaksauce mobs....

If you get past trying to do damage, RUN /can/ take a hit fairly well in 119 gear. Unfortunately, as Saevel points out, tanking is a dead concept in FFXI. Tanking is just the ability to hold a tons of mobs without dying atm.

I have capped pdt and mdt in pretty decent ilevel gear and get smashed while my buddies pld barely breaks a sweat it seems. Holding mobs or tanking AA harder fights I guess I just don't see it yet give run a burtgang style Great sword yeah that's the ticket that breaks the pdt cap a good pld can hold stuff not against the best dds but when you take the ranger route would you take a run or pld to hold the mob.

only one of the AA swords has magic damage and its not the one RUN is on


Yeah when it comes to physical damage but go tank somthing like Hurkan with a Aegis PLD beside a RUN and the RUN will live longer/take less damage, no doubt about that.

Meh, unless you're doing VD stuff you can go run to anything, might not be optimal but can pretty much play any job everywhere in this moment.

Speak for yourself I tanked hurkan last night and took hardly any damage.

I do but heck I tank hurkan on blu/run tho if you note my comments direct towards myself now tank AA on any mode above normal and impress..

Oh an Ageis Pld/run still would take less damage since they can bypass the mdef cap and are not stuck only against 1 element which is a huge meh since many mobs use multiple elements. So yeah I seem run tank hurkan but have also seen a blu and rdm do it as well.

I wait the day for someone to actually shout pld or run to fill the same spot but fear for any real content not any time soon. I still keep my run well geared and will keep hope alive but most mobs just do to much physical > magical atm for me..

Did i say that other jobs cant tank Hurkan? no, my point was RUN does it best which nobody can deny. NM's that are actually relivent in the game at this point which have mostly magic based attacks of 1 element are rare but RUN is best for them, better than Aegis PLD IMO, that was all i was trying to say but yeah those situations are rare.

The only real problem RUN has ever had versus Hurkan and Kumhau was dispel. With that no longer being an issue, it's pretty great versus both (not that it was that horrible before, but getting runes stripped+paralyzed often meant death).


As a side note, has anyone noticed what the Battuta enhancement is? I haven't seen anyone mention it. I toyed around with it myself for a few minutes but didn't notice anything.

Im getting that that I was taking hardly any damage as Aegis pld regen V was enough to keep me full for the most part. Aegis pld is so much better than run and I have both well geared.

With runes no longer getting dispelled, RUN's in pretty much the same spot.

Vallation and Valiance too? I haven't played RUN on anything with full dispel recently so idk. PLD mitigates a lot more physical damage than RUN though, which can still be problematic in some cases. Was hoping that when they said they want to level the playing field between PLD and RUN they meant physical damage.

Yeah ... PLD >>>> RUN for tanking anything. Hell WAR >>> RUN most of the time due to the difference in gear selection. RUN being on light armor doesn't help it much in the "tanking" department.

RUN's single gimmick is that it can take ridiculously low damage from a single elemental type. That's nowhere near enough to make it a tank. Parry / Evade are both crap on anything you need to be more then half awake to fight.


Talk about not reading


I was pointing out what that single AA sword does to BLU/RUN. Imagine what a Sword/GS with 90~120 MDMG would do to RUN itself.

It's all good though. It's the same things the PUP's said about "PUP can tank too!!!", and then later the DNC's "but DNC is a tank, it's even got provoke and high evasion!". And yet ... when we actually need someone to soak damage and hold something big and nasty, we don't even think of those jobs. I'm confident that RUN will end up in the same position BLU and DNC are, as a utility melee. The sooner it has the tools to fit into that niche the sooner leaders will feel comfortable using it.

The conversation was specifically in reference to Hurkan and Kumhau. I don't know why you two are talking about physical damage all of a sudden.

Both Hurkan and Kumhau have physical attacks, so it's still relevant, especially since they're quite strong.

I have never had any issues with Kumhau's physical attack, and I tanked it on RUN pre-update.