Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

You're at 49% in that set. Not that 1% is gonna make or break with Epeolatry, just saying.
Once you get a Futhark+3 body I would swap grip with the Unity one.

Seeing how in most setups you need 52% to be really capped (51-54 range but normally 52%) it doesn't really matter much anyway. Also next month were suppose to be able the aug ambu capes with some kind of dt not sure if it's all or u get to pick one like pdt vs mdt. they went over it in the freshly picked.

why would you need to be over 50% to be fully capped i thought the cap was 50%?

values are x/256 kinda of like haste needs 26 in gear to hit true 25%...

easy test to see if ur PDT capped go get hit by a cactus till it 1k needles if you take more then 500DMG u still need more in gear. once at true 50% you will only take 500DMG

Edit: Here's a list of gear I tested in 2014 most of it we wouldn't use these days but you can see how the numbers work and how SE is mostly constant with x value equaling the same x value but not always. There are on some new pieces of gear on the wiki with their true values but not a lot.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108199-Random-Facts-Thread-Other?p=6223812#post6223812

ohh ok thanks!

Not a huge fan of +3 to be honest. 1 more DT is nice, but already capping MDT with shell, and still keeping a respectable amount of meva(569 MEVA) in this set while having a decent HP(2821HP) Ceiling. Furthark +3/Refined +1 would also still give the same amount of PDT, less HP, and less MEVA. I personally prefer this set for those momenets you get gear locked or some dumb ***.


Still waiting on for SS to get approved, but it's nothing fancy. Pretty dull and boring

This is definitely not accurate. Stuff like Founder's Greaves is WAY more than ~20% resist rate (and have actually been tested to be 50% by Martel, I believe), and my standard status resist set of +16 resists otherwise non-resisting stuff way more than ~6% of the time. At these differences, it's not difficult to eyeball a difference.

There's three possibilities I can think of to reconcile this:

1: Resist Status items have diminishing returns at some point after +50

2: The +90 bodies work differently (or at least Onca Suit; there was an account a few weeks ago where the +90 stun resistance wasn't causing any resists at all on Sovereign Behemoth)

3: There's a cap AND the +90 bodies work differently.

Hmmmm. While I've used Founder's greaves to good effect, and I agree that they probably have a high rate of terror resist, I don't think I actually have a controlled test sample for them. That I can recall/find anyway. I did Test Sagasinger as being about 50% terror resist though(47.1% in the test sample) More stuff I need to test.

Anyway, I also agree that resist+ gear is not likely the be gearvalue/256. And this sample is far, far too small to draw any real conclusion from aside from that 100% was not reached. Variance for such a small sample could have the real resist value as anywhere from 23%~63%.

Another thought I had is... how does resist+ gear interact with resist states, if at all? If stun has 3 resist states, does resist+ gear get checked 3 times, and have to pass all 3 to proc a Resist! message? Or does it just check once then you Resist! if you passed the check?

Stun is known to have multiple resist states, part of why it's so accurate and hard to resist. This could be affecting the results depending on the answers to the above questions.

I'd like to see this tested on something that either lands for full duration or doesn't land at all. EDIT: Or have the status durations recorded to possibly give some insight into the resist states question.

I mentioned that on the last page. Too small sample size, and stuff like Vorseals/Stun is a really hard debuff to test. Doesn't Stun have abnormally higher macc than average spells? In that case you're not ever getting a true "resist" test. I stopped after the first Sang Buaya fight, because I was only really checking to see if onca + arete+1 = 100% resist (or close to it). Once it became clear that I was still getting stunned, I stopped checking it.

If there's another debuff we can use, I can gather the gear and try that one. Gravity might be something to test.

As I understand it, there's an initial check to see if you resist outright (this is the check that leads to the "Resist!" message). This doesn't check magic evasion at all, only resist traits. And as you pointed out, not all "resist ailment" gear seems to give the trait, some like the Omen bodies or Onca Suit seem to just give something more like "ailment magic evasion".

If you fail that first check, then it goes to the dINT/dMND/MEva check where you either get unresisted, partial resist, or even full resist but without the "Resist!" message.

The reason I think the "Resist!" check is first is because I've had that happen on mobs that are so low level there's no way they could pass the magic evasion check with any reliability. If the magic evasion check was first, it should be almost impossible to see a "Resist!" message on low-level mobs.

Edit:
It's funny you should mention Gravity because I recently had an experience that shook my understanding of Gravity. I used to think it only had 1 potency, you either resisted Gravity or you didn't.

However, I was doing a Kei the other day without a WHM, and he cast Gravity on me. I didn't ask for Erase from a SCH, because normally I have no issue running out of Fullers range even with Gravity up. This time, however, I didn't make it. It felt like I had been hit by a more-potent-than-normal Gravity.

So... is it possible Gravity partial resists give you less of a movement speed penalty? It sure seems that way because this particular Gravity had me running like I was waist-deep in molasses, whereas normally I have no trouble escaping Fullers in time.

Did I point something like that out? It honestly hadn't occurred to me that the stat on Onca was possibly not the same kind of "Resist Stun" as other gear.

That is an excellent point. Although I think I'd still like to do some testing on debuff durations(on debuffs with resist states(sleep etc)) to see if resist traits can effect whether you get full or half duration etc.


Download a load the speedchecker addon. It should show your movement bonuses/penalties. this would let you check the grav potency easily.

Hmmmm. While I have a strong general knowledge of the game, trying to think of cases of frequent status application off the top of my head is difficult for me.

Also, if we are relying on the Resist! message to identify a proc, then we can't use anything where the status is an additional effect. Actually.. would you even get a Resist! message from a resist! proc on a TP move? In Bukki's tests resists on Heavy Bellow displayed as Evades right? Sort of limits testing on anything that's not a directly cast spell. And I can't think of anything that spams the same enfeeble over and over...

I suppose a TP move could still be used as long as we had a control sample to compare to... But that means extra testing.

Does brenner have the same resist trait modifications as ballista? Player controlled casting would make this soooo much simpler... Although, I suppose as long as we knew exactly how PVP modifies resist traits, then we could reverse calc PVP tested samples to get the normal values... SO test a known value like standard resist traits in PVP to determine the change, then test from there?

Or just find some very cooperative mobs. None are coming to mind though.

Yeah the lack of "Resist!" message in many cases does make it harder to test. Sang Buaya is the only one that comes to mind that will reliably cast the same debuff over and over.

That, and AA TT in Escha Ru'Aun will spam Sleepga but have fun testing him since he tends to Meteor after every single one...

And of course both of those have pretty high magic accuracy so it would be hard to floor them...

Hmm a bit more complicated then that. There are actually three that I can see so far, two being MEVD checks and one being a percentile status immunity / resist check. Not sure the exact order they are applied but since it's all multiplicative it doesn't really matter.

Enfeeble is checked

First is elemental MEVD tiers with the mob only needing to pass one out of however many states. Fire Resist against Amnesia / Plague, Thunder against Stun, Wind against Silence.

Second is status ailment MEVD resist, only one tier, Barsilence against Silence, Barparalyze, or other specific +resist the target may have.

We know the first two because SE flatly told us this much.

Finally the flat resist / immunity stage, where targets are either completely immune to have a flat percentile resistance to a status ailment. This is where immunobreak happens.

The last there is the difference between Elemental Seal and Stymie, ES will cap or damn near cap magic accuracy enabling the RDM to pass both the first two checks but won't do anything against a flat resistance. Stymie enables the RDM to pass both sets of MEVD checks and also bypass the resistances, provided it's not completely immune. I've had targets that I could easily land Paralyze on but Distract was incredibly hard even with ES, yet Stymie landed it every time.

The distinction between the flat percentage "Resist Traits" and the Resist Status +number (not percentage) needs to be made because I think we're victim of SE's naming policy in the past.

Heavy Bellow "evades" message indicates it was a job ability induced debuff, and it "missed". It's used specifically when the JA is solely a debuff and not dmg+debuff. dmg+debuff resist probably doesn't show any message, or I don't recall it doing that. "Resist" message is spell-related language that was resisted by the target. I don't know if there are any other versions of these two magical "miss" messages in the game. Can't think of any of the top.

They are basically the same thing though (or are they?). Would there be any reason you would have a higher resist rate vs a spell than vs a JA effect? Seems unlikely.

Not sure you could use Brenner, its just a carbon copy of Diorama. The status ailment resistance thing is very obscure as well. SE never indicated how exactly you would resist status debuffs, they just mentioned that you would resist debuffs more frequently the more times it was cast on you (and the longer you stayed alive in ballista). Dying resets the value. I can't remember if it was limited to only Lullaby/Sleep though.

So you could still perform the test in Ballista by casting spell > killing opponent, home point, repeat. would take 30 seconds/test total, if you camped at the respawn point.

edit: It would still be a mess to test anyways. Who would do the casting, a RDM with already naturally high magic accuracy? a non-gifted or 2100 one? You'd have to compare magic evasion/acc gifts and gear to make a fair apples to apples comparison.

Wait, so players in PVP basically build resist to statuses like NMs do? I thought they just buffed resist traits and gear in there.

The whole point of this idea was to make it possible to spam cast. if you have to die and HP between each cast.. well, screw that.

That part wouldn't actually be an issue. We'd be looking for Resist! proc messages which are unrelated to macc.

Saevel, your third category and Resist traits are actually separate checks for resistance; Stymie bypasses your third category, but gets blocked by Resist traits just like every other spell modifier. Few non-beastmen monsters actually have proper Resist traits, though.

As for Distract, according to SE, it doesn't check resistances against anything but their elemental resistance, and doesn't have a corresponding status check. Your example would probably be due to the mob having sky high ice resistance and negative paralyze resistance, and not the third category.

History of FFXI page shows some changes


Since SE specifically mentioned sleep, lullaby, and stun, we know those were affected.
A quick google search of the ballista update history:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/topics/backnumber/topics200501.html

So yes, debuffs were adjusted for Ballista. Brenner is the same exact thing, so assume that has the same properties as well. They don't mention poison, though. But Good luck finding a good resist poison set to test with.

Why wouldn't macc from the caster factor into the land rate of spells? Yes we are checking frequency of the land rate and the gear rate, but you still need to know whose casting the spell, how much macc/gifts they have vs how much meva/gifts the wearer has.

Resist Proc messages are easy to test, just find a camp with a lot of lower level beast men of a particular job and cast the appropriate enfeebles on them. You should occasionally see a "Resist!" message when casting something like Paralyze / Slow / Bind / Gravity / Sleep / Silence / Break even though our own MACC is so overpowered that they should have floored resist rate.

Well, that's another avenue of testing cut off. Going to have to find good PVE test methods.

The discussion is mostly about testing resist status gear. And we can't exactly have the mobs wear equipment while we cast on them.

There's also the kerfuffle of exactly how resist traits stack with resist gear.

Good luck with that, could try abyssea against Tunga, he practically spams Slowg and Break nonstop. Might have to play with gear to get your magic evasion low enough to actually test with.

Someone should make a low level mage and spam paralyze or sleep on high level beastmen, to see if Resist traits are checked before MACC or after.

If it's before, player MEVA shouldn't matter, and we just have to count the Resist! messages.

Evasion Down definitely has a separate category for resist checks. If you read I said I had zero issue landing Paralyze, another ice enfeebling magic but ES Distract III got resisted yet Stymie didn't. Stymie cuts through Resist traits but won't bypass the complete immunity flag.

Enfeebles consist of two separate sets of MEVD checks, one for elemental resistance and another for the enfeeble specific resistance. A monster can take regular damage from thunder yet by extremely difficult but not invulnerable to stun, while others can flat out be immune to stun. That should sound familiar.

So three sets of things to check against

Elemental Magic Evasion
Enfeebling Magic Evasion
Percentile Status Ailment Immunity

Most enfeebles are tied to an element but not all. This setup becomes very noticeable when your trying to lockout two or more status ailments without Vex. Barfira + Barsleep will increase the chances the resisting Amnesia and Sleep, though the effect on the Sleep is much less pronounced which is why I believe it's a single Pass / Fail check instead of the tired ones for elemental.

Beastman mobs actually have the same Resist Traits as us players did, well prior to iLevel anyhow. These are actual beastman like Goblins, Orcs, Kindred and such. PLD's mobs in Dyna were notorious for ignoring sleep attempts, BRDs for being silenced. No one really cared about Slow, Paralyze, Bind, Gravity and we didn't have a Petrify effect for a long time so those largely went unnoticed.

A good one to see this all in effect is Maju and blind. Maju doesn't have any great resistance to darkness nor actual blindness evasion but has a very high flat resistances, like 90%+ resistance. Immunobreaks will lower this until you can land your blind, which then resists the resistance back to his huge level. Using ES Sab I would get a resist message the vast majority of the time but Stymie would land it every time. Also I believe Flat resistance checks happen at the end because my RDM would get consistent immunobreaks while the BLMs and GEOs would struggle. Then again immunobreak procs might be a function of enfeebling magic skill outside of MEVD checks.

So the whole point was to be careful when stacking +resist gear because a specific piece of gear might not be stacking on the percentage resist component but on the magic evasion side.

And my point is that SE has specifically stated that Distract and Frazzle don't have separate categories for resist checks, which is why they cannot trigger Immunobreaks and always have resistance corresponding directly to the mob's ice resistance. Again, your situation would be explained by said monster having sky high ice resistance and negative Paralyze resistance, which would make Paralyze easier to land than Distract.

And again, you're combining two categories when you shouldn't. The actual categories are:

Elemental MEVA
Status MEVA
Status Percentile Resistance
Resist Traits

The last two cateogories work differently, as the latter are completely unaffected by Immunobreaks (and cannot trigger them) and Stymie, give Resist! messages when triggered, and are only on Beastmen or Player Race type monsters (and players).


As for Immunobreaks, SE has stated that the chance of getting an Immunobreak is a function of the difference between your MACC and the mob's MEVA (presumably only using elemental and status resistances), so higher MACC (and lowered mob MEVA) will help getting them.

Distract is just Evasion Down which most certainly has a separate check along with Attack Down and the most annoying of them all Magic Evasion Down, though they may be percentile checks and not evasion checks. Status reductions like Int Down on the other hand don't. The vast majority of mobs don't have non-standard status ailment resistances so it's quite noticeable when it shows up unexpectantly. And really high ice resistance is absolutely out of the question as Paralyze and Frost landed without any issues, hell Blizzard didn't have a problem.


I could easily see there being two separate categories for those flat percentile functions so won't argue about that.


Which sounds suspiciously like the enfeebling evasion check. As in "if you pass the enfeebling evasion check you will see more immunobreak procs then if you don't", which is like saying "enfire proc rate is a function of the difference between the players accuracy and the monsters evasion". Maybe a second MEVD check afterwards to see if you lowered it.

Oh, and one more point of interest about Resist Status equipment; they will not protect against anything that does not have a corresponding Resist trait.

Attribute Down, Dispel, Attack Down, etc, are all unaffected by it.

What's the reasoning for thinking the elemental magic evasion check & status magic evasion check are separate checks and thus separate multipliers? I've always felt the two magic evasion stats are just added together for a single check.

In my experience, elemental magic evasion, and just flat "magic evasion" like what's found on iLvl gear, both increase your chances of receiving partial duration ailments. As does status magic evasion, such as given by barailment spells. All three can impact the duration and seem to be more or less interchangeable.

Because of the way things scale so linearly, it makes me think it's all additive. For example, Barfira or Baramnesra by themselves won't do nearly as much as the two together will do. If they were working as separate multipliers, I'd expect one to diminish the benefit of the other, not increase it. (Two 30% chances to resist means 49% overall chance to resist. Two 30% additive increases would be a flat 60% increase.)