Has the gear sets on the front page been updated? Doesn't seem like it, and I was also wondering about the brutal/moonshade, isn't that still the top choice for ws? I saw over in the drk forum they were saying bladeborn/steelflash for ws on reso. I still dont see that beating moonshade/brutal

Pretty sure the OP of the guide quit. And yes, Brutal/Moonshade still. I don't remember reading anywhere people saying to use Bladeborn/Steelflash for Resolution, but if they did they're wrong.

The 2 best items to come from this update for SAM:





Ends up replacing the old Haste Body + Windbuffet Belt sets along with further improving pretty much every other set unless STP on Yaoyotl/Otronif/Goading is needed (it usually isn't). That extra 1% haste on Otomi Helm is a blessing. Not to mention it's a beastly WS piece.

Depending on how Hasso is enhanced, our AF+2 hands may be really good. If it's the same thing as AF3+2 legs it won't be very useful in capped magic haste sets, but a staple in uncapped magic haste sets. Basically, if these are good, the sets we'll need to carry around will be doubled. <.<




Upgraded Chocaliztli Boots are best for Shoha and capped attack Kaiten, but that's pretty much it.




Fudo, Namas Arrow and AM3 Shoha:




Capped attack Fudo and Shoha:

Anyone by any chance bother to check what the new hierarchy for GK are % wise?
Esp koga compared to tsu, amano+masa dont really seem to fall back i assume just by eyeballing.

Tsurumaru/Amano/Masamune vary depending on buffs, but Amano is always behind Masamune. Koga is ahead of them all.

How's Yoichi holding up?

Nearly 100 extra base damage is gonna do wonders for Namas. When cRatio capped I'd imagine it would actually be slightly below if not on par with Koga. Should definitely pull ahead if you can 4-hit Yoichi with the help of Tsuru (Tsuru's Save TP transfers to Bow WSs, right? Never actually used that combo, but had someone tell me it does) while being stuck with a 5-hit on Koga, though.

I'd suspect Amano would be the better option for the melee slot when using Yoichi.

I'm actually surprised Masamune beats Amano at all melee wise, seeing as Kaiten should be better than Fudo until ~153tp with Moonshade. I guess Empyrean AM and overflow TP is enough to make up for better Kaiten numbers and the ODD of relics?

Amano seemed to me to give the best DPS for GKs while using Namas since that erases Masamune's AM advantage. Is the Save TP such a big deal that Tsurumaru beats out Amano's better white damage?

It depends. If you can 4-hit using Tsurumaru but are stuck with a 5-hit with Amano then Tsurumaru will certainly be better. When you have equal hit builds, though it gets a bit closer.

The following assumes you have Ionis. If you're getting Samurai Roll to allow a 4-hit with Amano it will depend on how good of a roll you get. I use 7 SAM roll in my comparisons since that's the lowest you can get (Your CORs should always Double-up on 1 and 3-6). With that value you use less multi-attack gear and more Store TP gear with Amano. Tsurumaru is a lot more lenient, allowing you to stack more multi-attack than Amano (still assuming a 7 Samurai Roll), which would pull it slightly ahead. However, as your Samurai value gets higher, you'd be able to stack more multi-attack gear on Amano pulling it ahead of Tsurumaru.

When they're both using a 5-hit build, though (outside Adoulin and no Samurai Roll), Amano will easily pull ahead. Don't forget Tsurumaru *does* have 16 more base damage than Amano.

When I messed around with the spreadsheet I had Fudo pulling ahead more around 125% including Moonshade.
Edit: Nevermind. You're right, it's around like 150%

But yeah. Empyrean AM being able to proc on all hits of an attack round and at a higher rate is pretty crazy.

Yeah, it does.

It's hard to determine where Yoichi stands at the moment. The success of Yoichi has a lot to do with exactly how high your attack and str over the mob over conventional weapons. (Attack and fSTR2 cap higher on ranged weapons than on melee). Based on what I've seen testing with the Spelgan Bow in Delve, I wouldn't hold your breath: it takes a lot of attack to pull it off and the mobs might simply be too defensive.

However, it goes without saying that the weapon of choice for these situations will either be a Tsuru or Amano and not the other two.

I have a question about Relic WS Bonus.

Back when I still used Apocalypse, I would see some numbers that seemed higher than predicted. Does the 40% damage calculate before or after multi-attack procs?

I personally haven't done much SoA since my group, for the most part, fell apart with the Delve weapon releases. I completely forgot about the Save TP from Ionis. I guess I should cave and go get a Tsurumaru for SoA content.

Oh well. Can't wait for tonight to pick up my Amano and get started on those delightfully crappy trials.

I dunno. Only time I saw high numbers was when I forgot my WS neck or waist and got QA procs from Mala/Windbuffet, lol. :3

Grats! I actually just started turning in currency for mine also~

Thanks. I got so excited for the update I ruined my underskilled 49SAM with Yoichi/Amano SS. I considered leaving myself relatively gimp until after Koga, but in my excitement I've been rapidly improving my SAM.

I really think it's worth factoring in player error here too. You're not going to be WSing at 100 every time with a 4hit and max haste buffs. Until we get some sort of packet based auto ws, human error is very prevalent.

Not sure where the testing was but I believe its figured in for every hit of the WS, including multihits.

On the topic of Merits, I just capped Overwhelm and STP, is there anything I need to balance the rest into or is it 5/5 Meditate/Ikishoten?

Some people like to go 4/5 on Ikishoten and then stick one into Blade Bash for those emergency stun situations. If you don't feel that you'll ever need to do that, then just go 5/5 Iki and obviously 5/5 into Meditate.

since the zanshin update, those merits generally beat mediate recast.

You better cite that incendiary comment with a previous post or mathematical background.

As I recall, the two are close, but by no means does it "generally" beats meditate recast. If anything, meditate "generally" beats zanshin merits just because the study that they conducted involved non stop meleeing. That means, if you pause, and stop meleeing for a second, waiting for mobs, walking to mobs, etc, meditate breaks the counterpoise and beats zanshin.

it beats meditate for dps if you're engaged at least 75% of the time by very little, up until you miss an even roundoff for zanhasso. any extra time spent unengaged or between rounded zanhasso favors mediate, more time engaged and more haste favors zanshin. but the sway is only about 2% at best pre-soa, i haven't looked at it much since then.

it's also well established, not incendiary or unconventional. read the thread you're posting in.

with the build i was using, it was something like 3/5 zanshin 2/5 mediate was optimal.

I take it how hard you ride the recast timer also plays a big role on merit choice then?

I was really hoping it was as cut and dry as my DRK Merits.


Does Zanshin proc at the normal rate on misses with Hasso up?

Yeah. All Hasso does for Zanshin is allow it to proc even if you don't miss.

all my math assumed you had your finger on the macro, that's why i said it generally wins. am3, save tp values, multi-attack, haste, etc all effect it, obviously.

zanshin procs with hasso even if you don't miss at 1/4 of your zanshin rate with the remainder floored. so 60% zanshin is 15% zanhasso, but 63% zanshin is also 15% zanhasso. so one zanshin merit would put you at 16% zanhasso, that's where zanshin merits win over meditate merits.

I was thinking the recast on meditate gets messed up by enfeebles, mobs dying while you have TP, human error.

Actually, should I be using meditate in the situation that a mob dies while I have tp and am running to the next now that I have Fudo or should I sit on it? It wasn't even a question when my only real options in high buff situations didn't scale with TP (Kaiten and Namas), but now at least the excess TP could be used with Fudo.

We just want to see your calculations. I'm not the type that will take a figure such as 75% and take it as it is. I really want to know exactly how you came up with your calculations because it is a contradiction to content. I don't even need you to do the calculation, I just ask that you cite it.

Let's start with this: You claim that the "ideal" setup is Zanshin 3/5 and Meditate 2/5. What is your reasoning for that? How did you come up with this number? Is this based on logic as well? How is it that these two functions are linear yet SOMEHOW you don't stack them all into one and not the other?(they can both be related converted to increased TP/second, so it should be clear that one is superior to another). This begs to ask: exactly how arbitrary are your values?

I don't mean to disrespect, but it's hard to listen to you make claims without citing your sources. It boggles my mind that the previous time I had to correct your comments about something as simple as haste calculations and how they are floored had to be drawn out so much especially when you had no evidence that it was floored in this fashion.

Like this one:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/36563/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide/22#2433848

read my last post. 5 seconds less recast on meditate vs 1% da is a no brainer.

i didn't say it is the best, i said it WAS generally best depending on your build and explained why you would split them.

and you are the only one asking me to prove something that is shown by several people throughout this thread. do some backreading before you attack a generic and innocuous statement.

It was not and you know it. All the other posts link right back to you and once again, with no calculations and no proof of exactly how it is floored or why is it superior. Just like how you argued haste previously. I'm not here to argue with you how it is floored now. I want to know you show me the math and it's clearly not in this thread because I already did a "zanshin merits" search. All I can see from here is that your explanation of 3/5 on meditate which is bogus

By Jassik on 2013-03-04 15:16:21

Dude, what are you smoking? Meditate merits are 6 seconds. That puts you at -18 from 3 minutes. How is that REMOTELY a sweet spot with other JA's in any conceivable notion? Does 2 minutes 12 seconds sound like a sweet spot to any of you? Does it stack on top of any 5 minute abilities like Berserk, Warcry, Agressor? What are you talking about?


Read my last post. The last time you argued about how the equations were floored were wrong. How is it different this time? At least consult a reputable source.

Let's play a game: "Would you rather?"

Have 1 Triple attack? or Reduce Meditate down to 2:30 from 3:00

You'd be surprised how many people would chose the latter. It's not as night and day as you make it out to be so stop making it sound like it is obvious. It's not. (I even gave you triple attack which is an overestimation of what Zanhasso actually does)

I do not admit that I'm right about this subject, and I'll openly admit that there are plenty of ways that each type of merits will shine in different situations. We're all in the processes of learning how this game works. But given that I've given questions that need to be contended with and all you response is "look it up" just shows exactly how little you know about the subject.

Also, what Dramatica had posted before about Tsuru/Amano can not be understated even in this situation. Predictability makes a huge difference in how an ability is used to their maximum effect . Zanhasso has an element of unpredictability to it which leads to over TP. Meditate is much more predictable because it's incremental. Meditate is known to be able to perform 2 self skillchains with 100% accuracy with only haste. Zanhasso does not.

As we have always demonstrated time and time again, Masamune and Koga parse similarly, but on spreadsheets, Koga always wins. Likewise, zanshin merits as a "generalization" better than Meditate merits is simply not a good generalization.

Seems I've started something lol.

Well how about a less up for debate topic?

Do I need to keep Sekkanoki hands, Sengikori feet, or Seigan Head on the full time to keep the benefits of their bonuses or only for activation?

Can I remove then replace to keep the Seigan Benefit?

I only do this if I have Sekkanoki or I know I won't be fighting a mob before Meditate is back up. Otherwise I'll time it depending on current TP and distance to the next target to where I'll have 100% once I'm engaged.

I'd say meditate is much more likely to be the loser due to human error and overTP. I still have my meditate merits for extra room on AM3 activation though.