Last Resort Adjustment.

Well then you didn't read it right because I've been kicking this around for a while. The only reason Haste screams ahead of any other stat to a certain degree is because subtractive haste is stupid once one application goes past about 50%.

The way to break out of this is to unstack JA, Magical, and Gear haste. Make them all separate reductions. This reduces the exponentiality of cranking up every category at once. Then you lift the category cap on each so skills and gear and such have room to grow again. Pure speculative example follows. Keep the 80% total reduction cap if you like.

Keep JA haste cap at 25%.

Raise magical haste cap to 55%. Embrava+Marches, Haste+Marches... It lets the combos ride out a little better.

Raise the gear cap to 40%. This just barely out reach of most jobs for now, DRK makes it to ~36% without gimpage, but the important part is reaching 40% shouldn't quite rule gear like it used to because going 30%->40% will always be only 16.6% more swings for example. More haste is more better, but it doesn't get out of control when you get it from other sources too. This also puts a little shine back on Apocalypse for sure.

Reach cap in all three categories and you're right about 80%, but you actually have to gear and buff to get there and getting past it would be difficult. Also opens up the system for new gear to have more haste, much like how we've already seen Phorcys or even just WAR Empy +2 start pushing haste redundancy. I think I TP in 28% on my DNC just because I've nothing else to put on to get rid of any.

But this is just speculative and only presented as a possible change in design principle, which I know SE to be deathly afraid of. It'd throw off Player vs. Mob balance and lead to a little FOTM war about what job needs the least buffs (not saying that's a bad thing). Hell it probably isn't balanced in the slightest but I'm not the one who picked a subtractive system in the first place.

Unfortunately any nerfage to the current combat system would break large portions of the game. If you think Legion is stupid now just imagine it after losing 30~50% of your damage output. Having a singular stacked haste system combined with large amounts of available haste is what evened out the playing field between the DD's, otherwise the "best" becomes the one who won the SE gear dart board lotto. Good if your particular job / weapon combo won the lotto, bad if it lost.

Thankfully it seems SE's current developers have realized this and are being very careful with any adjustment. Splitting DRK's JA haste is a good example of this, ultimately has no effect on DRK but gives other jobs several options. Hopefully they make the haste effect on LR effect everything and not just 2H, let DB's additional haste apply to 2H only. This makes /DRK an interesting sub for 1H jobs like NIN, MNK, BLU, DNC, THF, ect. They could get 15% JA haste (currently not really available to 1H) along with 15% attack bonus for 3/5 and the +22 attack from ABII.

I have to agree with Taint that it's gonna be 2-hander only just because that's how it already is for DRK main.

Only cause DB is 25% haste and LR is 0% haste. LR effects 1H the same as 2H, its only DB that is limited to 2H. If SE puts 15% of the haste effect on LR then I could easily see it apply to everything with the 10% remaining on DB only applying to 2H. This is purely from a server side mechanical point of view.

Of course SE is also mentioning the damage difference between 1H and 2H while wanting to make /DRK more viable, presents a decent opportunity to enhance 1H a bit.

I did like what it would have done for my DNC. Oh well.

Yep made it pretty useless for everyone except DRG. DRG being the only 2H job who can't get an attack buff and JA haste effect simultaneously.

Still pretty hot for sam.

The fact that this happened is what I'm confused about. Do they mean "any retard can pick up a GS and do OK" or do they genuinely believe that high-end Dark Knights outclass all other jobs?

If you cut out the riff-raff and talk about the 10% who play well, I don't think DRK is a massive powerhouse. It's nowhere near as OP or bandwagon as hagun YGK sam was. The fact that SE has a long history of being *** stupid is what upsets me.

tl;dr: I don't want drk to become the next rdm because it caught SE's eye once in history.

No, no, no.




Allow me to translate.

Is it even useful for drg? You loose hasso's fulltime 10% JA haste and str, STPII, meditate, sekka ect for 15% JA haste and 15% att that is only up 3mins of 5 and souleater.

SOULEATER PENTA THRUST.... ARE YOU INSANE?

I'd follow with a spirit link just to ensure incoming death but I still don't pull hate...

Looking forward to try DRG/DRK for run, still keeping 5-hit build with Chauve-Souris OaT/Herja's Fork, could be interesting :) Soul Eater Stardiver? ^^

RNF/DRK? or am I way off base?

Maybe for dd purposes. But considering the main role is that of tank it's probably not so good to go LR. But anyway, we still know nothing about it.

A proper DRG shouldn't be subbing /SAM unless their underbuffed or fighting weak monsters. /WAR gives the awesomeness that is Berserk along with the happy ending that is +10% DA. So for full on super-buffed zergs /WAR will still be king, its for those middle-ground scenarios that /SAM vs /DRK would exist. /SAM is pretty much 10% JA haste and +15 sTP, Med / Sekka are both extremely situational (20 Tp per minute is kinda sh!tty and arguably not worth the 1~2s delay from using the JA). /DRK would give 15% JA haste for 3/5 of the time along with 15% attack boost, as DRG lacks a native attack boost ability, it won't be capping ratio on anything higher level then it is.

The real difference depends on how much time the DRG spends /engaged. Some fights are constant 100% full burn (Legion / XP), others are sporadic with fights lasting a few min then having a bunch of "run around" time, NNI / Salvage / Meebles / Voidwatch. Burst fights dramatically favor /DRK.

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Did you really just say 10DA,Zerk,aggressor is more important then 10ja haste in a zerg? Please pass the pipe. If you have to /war on DRG you are on the wrong job or not getting proper zerg buffs. Nothing will benefit you more then additional haste esp for a job that can't cap naturally. Spirit Surge would maximize /war for the 1-1:20 its active but that would be an incredibly rare situation.


/DRK for 2handers only like I thought it would be.

BLM/DRK

Oh my.

Actually was thinking that DRG would have capped haste via buffs (SV march's / Embrava / Haste / ect..) and gear. Looking over the haste caps it looks like they'll fall short of the 20% reduction floor by about 11%. In that case the 10% extra JA haste will beat everything.

All of you are fools if you don't see that this is actually a way for SE to once again buff SAM without actually pissing everyone off with an official "Samurai Adjustments" post. SAM/DRK is a wrap LR+Hasso, 3 forms of stun, Attack Bonus II.

Are you on crack? Everything in this post is invalid and wrong.

/SAM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/WAR in every instance except Voidwatch and ONLY because a 5hit build and haste setup are negated by the fact that you're practically spamming WS back to back using Wings and with high regain atmacites/temps.

Although Berserk and 10% DA are nice novelties, in a high buff situation, Berserk isn't going to help much(in Legion on DRG/SAM, I'm rocking 1300 or more Attack with 4x minuets/chaos roll/food, berserk would hardly make a difference). You have it backwards, /WAR is for lowbuff situations, /SAM is for super buffed situations because Sekkanoki/Meditate/Store TP and Hasso only augment your damage and WS frequency whilst Berserk won't do much when you're rocking such high attack from buffs; 10% DA is lolworthy because most Herja Fork builds have around 10-12% DA and ~6-7% QA, DA has diminishing returns and still doesn't make up for needed an entire extra attack to WS(5 hit vs 6 hit). Also, before you ask, a 5 hit build on /WAR is ludicrously inefficient by the way.

I hope your post was a joke because you're embarrassing yourself. While /WAR offers Berserk and DA which are things DRG wish we could have with our Hasso and Store TP, we can't because DRG, unlike WAR and DRK don't have Berserk/Last Resort equivalents so we need to choose between higher attack vs faster attack speed and ws frequency and 99% of the time the latter wins out. When that berserk wears off in 3 minutes, /WAR is utterly worthless whereas /SAM wins out.

Even if the fight was 3 minutes long, do you know how many more WS a DRG/SAM can do over a DRG/WAR in 3 minutes?

Some quickkkkk napkin math, estimating most values:

Assuming 492 delay polearm 38sTP in gear and 25% gear haste, not counting DA/TA/QA gear or even accuracy in this comparison, let's assume both DRG/WAR and DRG/SAM have 100% accuracy, in a solo and buffed situation. Jump and wyvern not accounted for either as they're superfluous to this comparison.

Solo, native buffs:
DRG/WAR
Number of swings in 3 minutes: ~31(with DA)
Amount of TP gained only from swings alone: ~567

Solo, native buffs:
DRG/WAR
Number of swings in 3 minutes: ~34
Amount of TP gained only from swings alone:~690(STP trait+ meditate)

So /SAM gets 3 more attacks and almost ~1.5 weapon skills over /WAR. Fighting fodder or random mobs they'd probably come about even but this is where utility comes in. During the 2minutes berserk cooldown, /WAR isn't netting you anything except for DA really whereas /SAM still has Third Eye/Store TP etc. So solo DRG/WAR and DRG/SAM are effectively about the same--in a 3 minute solo fight where damage mitigation isn't important.

Now in a high buff situation, assuming capped MAGIC haste and only native buffs(including Hasso for DRG/SAM)

Solo, native buffs:
DRG/WAR
Number of swings in 3 minutes: ~65(with DA)
Amount of TP gained only from swings alone: ~1189(11 WS)

Solo, native buffs:
DRG/SAM
Number of swings in 3 minutes: ~86
Amount of TP gained only from swings alone: ~1756( 17 WS with meditate)

So even though both have capped magic haste, Hasso is adding about 20 more swings and about 6 more WS. Really doubtful that 25% attack would increase your WS by enough to makeup for the loss of 20 hits and 6 entire WS unless your pDIF is really *** which is unlikely unless you've just been fully dispelled.

The math was really just an estimate but if you calculate it fully, it would still be the same result: /WAR fails.

tl;dr DRG/WAR sucks outside of Voidwatch or dicking around.

Hell yes. 15% haste means recast reduction, that's double what you get from /rdm and triple what you get from dark arts. And /drk gives you more base int than /rdm or /sch(I think)

Not sure if serious because I think Desperate Blows only increases attack speed, I don't think it lowers spell recast in line with other JA Haste abilities(Spirit Surge/Hundred Fists/Haste Samba)


but even if it does.../RDM gives you Haste which is fulltime 15% unless someone is hasting you in your group then I guess I could see /DRK having worth...although BLM should be able to cap recast or close to it anyway for most things with gear/staves and /RDM I would think.

Tossing this out there: Pretty *** hyped for my melee scholar/dark in legion. I'm gonna bust out a stun grip and a merc. pole and spam Shattersoul ALL DAY ERY'DAY!!!

not sure if trolling. SAM isn't gaining very much of anything unless you're not getting any haste buffs. that aside, you act like SAM is already the best thing ever when relative to WAR and DRK it's not that phenomenal (unless you have a 400m weapon)

SMN/DRK. Gonna put a beard on my taru and stun between shock squalls. Shock Squall Twins!!!

Because magical haste is always capped, right? Because SAM isn't intended to be a low-buff DD for hard targets which is why it doesn't compete in high buff situations, right?

Picking a situation where you wouldn't be on SAM in the first place to shoot down using /DRK is a bit silly.

I, for one, welcome our new SAM/THF/DRK overlords, because I have a ton of lowman content to do (Meebles).

JA haste does not decrease spell cast delays - DNC/NIN is a prime example, dnc would be far too powerful with an extra 10% haste for shadows.......

Game mechanics 101 do you need it?