The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Odin.Takahishy
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By Odin.Takahishy 2013-01-16 11:32:46
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Great Guide so far Ejin! Just one question: Could you add a few more Bravura Setups? Cause I'm not sure if I missed a few Items in my Upheaval(no MS) and Metatron Torment setup.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-16 16:35:34
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Odin.Takahishy said: »
Great Guide so far Ejin! Just one question: Could you add a few more Bravura Setups? Cause I'm not sure if I missed a few Items in my Upheaval(no MS) and Metatron Torment setup.

Updated Bravura TP MAX to include Are's +1 stuff:


Obviously Oneiros ring if you're into that type of thing.

Added an Upheaval MAX for Bravura + Ukonvasara:


Dilaram's if no Huginn feet.

*Neither account for Embrava.
[+]
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2013-01-16 16:38:28
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how far behind valk is ares+1 body for upheaval?
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-16 16:52:53
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They're almost literally tied.

Edit: Actually, it looks like Ares' body and hands pull ahead.
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2013-01-16 16:53:58
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neat! thanks
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By Phorcys 2013-01-16 17:31:31
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Since I asked a few posts back and got no response, I cut/copied my questions regarding Upheaval here.

Was wondering where the general consensus now lies with the Waist and Back slots for Upheaval. I'm reading in the Upheaval Thoughts thread that Warwolf Belt is the way to go, while Ejiin's posting it being better to use an Elemental Belt instead. Wouldn't it be ideal to use Apathy + Warwolf when you're not hurting for accuracy, and Fortitude Torque + Warwolf when you are? What about Windbuffet Belt? Would the 3% Triple Attack from Valkyrie's Breastplate stacked with Windbuffet's 2% put it ahead of Warwolf?

Also, I'm seeing Oneiros Cappa posted for Upheaval. Wouldn't this only apply for Conqueror users? I'm guessing Ukon users stick with Atheling, using Cavaros during MS when attack's capped?
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-16 17:44:17
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Upheaval:

Onieros back unless your attack's low (what you would expect).

Ele. belt as long as you need accuracy. It's quite far ahead of Warwolf if you need any accuracy at all. Windbuffet is better than both Ele. belt and Warwolf if everything's capped, but it usually isn't unless you're fighting something lower than Qilin.

Cavaros during MS.
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By Phorcys 2013-01-16 17:58:53
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Odin.Registry said: »
Upheaval:

Onieros back unless your attack's low (what you would expect).

Ele. belt as long as you need accuracy. It's quite far ahead of Warwolf if you need any accuracy at all. Windbuffet is better than both Ele. belt and Warwolf if everything's capped, but it usually isn't unless you're fighting something lower than Qilin.

Cavaros during MS.

Awesome. Going to do some revision to my spellcast.
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By Squabble 2013-01-16 18:33:06
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Anyone know the best King's Justice (300 TP) build for Conqueror?
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By Kyler 2013-01-16 19:26:28
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Derail, ejiin's word is not the word of god, there is no one set that is best for everything or even ANYTHING and just because an item is best in slot in his posted sets does not mean that it is always true for your set. These are things that you can build towards but need to be taken with two grains of salt. Race, buffs, *** even day of the week can effect sets.
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By Kyler 2013-01-16 19:29:40
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »


Added an Upheaval MAX for Bravura + Ukonvasara:


Dilaram's if no Huginn feet.

*Neither account for Embrava.

With bravura I get better results from oneiros pebble and warwolf belt and usually drachenhorn
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-16 20:13:28
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Kyler said: »
Derail, ejiin's word is not the word of god, there is no one set that is best for everything or even ANYTHING and just because an item is best in slot in his posted sets does not mean that it is always true for your set. These are things that you can build towards but need to be taken with two grains of salt. Race, buffs, *** even day of the week can effect sets.

Quote:
VIII: In Closing

This guide obviously isn't going to be flawless or helpful to everyone who reads it, but I ask anyone who has constructive feedback to post in an effort to improve this guide.


I already know I won't get everything right 100% of the time, which is why I specifically asked for feedback if people had it.


Kyler said: »
With bravura I get better results from oneiros pebble and warwolf belt and usually drachenhorn

Ravager's Orb was a mistake, Oneiros is correct.

Not seeing at all how warwolf could be winning, but windbuffet can be situationally better. Drachenhorn would be better depending on attack, but Ravager's should win if capped.
[+]
 Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2013-01-17 00:41:26
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How many tics of embrava do y'all allow when making sets?
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-17 11:09:17
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Kyler said: »
Derail, ejiin's word is not the word of god, there is no one set that is best for everything or even ANYTHING and just because an item is best in slot in his posted sets does not mean that it is always true for your set. These are things that you can build towards but need to be taken with two grains of salt. Race, buffs, *** even day of the week can effect sets.

Wow mad.

Also there really shouldn't be any situation where Warwolf is doing you any good. Ele. Belt if you need accuracy and Windbuffet if you don't.

Bismarck.Stani said: »
How many tics of embrava do y'all allow when making sets?

If you're doing math by hand (I really wouldn't recommend it lol) then you can find out how many you'd get until 100 TP.
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By Kyler 2013-01-17 11:39:51
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Not mad, just reiterating what he posted in his initial guide because I felt it needed to be done based on the way comments have been going the last few pages.

And

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10844/
 Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2013-01-17 16:21:10
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Registry said:
Bismarck.Stani said: »
How many tics of embrava do y'all allow when making sets?

If you're doing math by hand (I really wouldn't recommend it lol) then you can find out how many you'd get until 100 TP.

So you don't recommend it... and then go on to recommend it.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-17 19:04:07
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Well you can just plug things into spreadsheets now and it factors everything in for you, which is why I wouldn't recommend doing it by hand.

I mean, if you want to go ahead.
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2013-01-17 19:13:05
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always heard to account for 2 tic of regain with capped haste including ws delay and whatnot
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-17 19:59:55
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With capped delay you'll probably get 1 tic during your weaponskill animation and 1-2 more depending on weapon delay, human error, and such.
 Ifrit.Shagg
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By Ifrit.Shagg 2013-01-18 09:25:32
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how far behind dillerams is augmented (4str/6attk) heca feet +1 (for reso)?
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-01-18 09:40:19
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Ifrit.Shagg said: »
how far behind dillerams is augmented (4str/6attk) heca feet +1 (for reso)?

Heca feet is better when att is capped, dilaram when att isn't.
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By Phorcys 2013-01-20 03:09:20
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I've got a question regarding Atmacites while zerging with Upheaval. Before I ask, I'll make quick mention that during Voidwatch and Provenance, I use Coercion, Latitude, and Valiant when I'm not getting Miser's Roll, and Discipline, Latitude, and Valiant when I am.

With that said, I'd like to know, would it be better for me to replace Latitude with Deluges while zerging with Upheaval? It's my guess that Deluges's VIT +15 and Double Attack +3% beat Latitude's TP Bonus +50.

I'd also like to know whether or not I should be using Shadow Mantle instead of Cavaros on Darksday. I'm guessing the answer is yes.
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-01-20 11:39:01
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The vast majority of recommendations in this thread come from the DPS spreadsheets (linked in the Resources section of the guide) and if you were to download them you could just plug that in yourself. Given how much you like to tweak your sets, I'm sure you'd enjoy playing with them.

I will comment on the Latitude question though. The trade is more than what you have listed since your TP set should be taking advantage of the haste from the Atmacite. So you will also lose whatever stats during the TP phase that Latitude's haste would have allowed you to pick up.
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By Kyler 2013-01-20 13:09:58
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I use a 5 hit with Valiant Lattitude and Deluges

Deluges (15stp 15 VIT 15 enmity DA+3%)

It's a win win win for upheaval. Makes it super easy to 5 hit, almost no gear changes 15 VIT and DA are nice as well.
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By Phorcys 2013-01-20 17:55:42
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Phoenix.Suji said: »
The vast majority of recommendations in this thread come from the DPS spreadsheets (linked in the Resources section of the guide) and if you were to download them you could just plug that in yourself. Given how much you like to tweak your sets, I'm sure you'd enjoy playing with them.

I've been trying to figure it out. The DPS Spreadsheet on Google I'm not understanding how to plug stuff into. This is all I could find. It appears to be a document file and I can't figure out how to plug gear into it.

As far as the Haste on Latitude goes, all I'd be losing making the switch to Deluges would be Windbuffet Belt during TP phase. Should I be using Deluges/Latitude/Valiant instead? As far as a 5 hit with Deluges goes, I used the Store TP Calculator to figure out whether or not the Store TP +15 from Deluges would give me a 5 hit build, and it shows it not being enough. I plugged in Ukon's 482 delay, Store TP II trait from SAM sub, and 30 Store TP (15 from Deluges and 15 from gear during TP phase) into the Gear/SAM Roll Store TP slots and it came up 18.8% TP per hit, with 20% being needed for a 5 hit.

Is this correct? Would I need Samurai's roll to achieve a 5 hit?
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By Kyler 2013-01-20 18:03:18
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Way to ninja edit in things that were pointed out after your initial post? Dicipline is complete garbage any time you are not getting misers.


As for lattitude, especailly in zerg situations you are going to want to be TPing in windbuffet. The combo of valiants 5 and lats 3 allow you to accomplish this comfortably. Those 2 should always be a lock for DDs in most situations.

That said (w/o crunching it myself) id bet youd get better results with deluges for upheaval zergs regardless of other buffs. Overflow from regain is nice and all but garunteed shaving of a hit and 15 mod for the ws Plus 3 DA?
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By Kyler 2013-01-20 18:09:46
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All my sets are with bravura so 488 delay, however with monarchs and possibly embrava the difference should be negligable. White tathlum, kokous earring(or even atillas) are pretty harmless swaps for TP phase.

After that it depends on what other gear you are dealing with duplis/rose/pole on the sub or rancor/portus/ravagers/hyouis on the neck.

Personally i feel rancor is over rated in high pdif VW situations due to other crit bonus's and obviously is fail during MS
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-01-20 18:10:13
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Phorcys said: »
I've been trying to figure it out. The DPS Spreadsheet on Google I'm not understanding how to plug stuff into. This is all I could find. It appears to be a document file and I can't figure out how to plug gear into it.
You found the right thing. Now you just have to download it and open it up in a spreadsheet program to edit it. OpenOffice works fine if you don't have Excel.
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By Phorcys 2013-01-20 18:14:07
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Kyler said: »
Way to ninja edit in things that were pointed out after your initial post? Dicipline is complete garbage any time you are not getting misers.

It's a habit for me to edit until I get my post right. Done with pure intentions. I know their's always the Preview button before posting but it's just been a bad habit for me to do multiple edits. If it pisses people off, I apologize.

So Coercion, Latitude, and Valiant when spamming Ukko's Fury, and Deluges, Latitude, and Valiant when spamming Upheaval.
 Cerberus.Phyrefly
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By Cerberus.Phyrefly 2013-01-20 22:29:44
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Thank you so, so much for this, and thank you everyone else who put in your input also. Like someone else said, this is so helpful for casual players like myself.
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