(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

Not trying to be biased or anything.. but liberator is just in a whole new level when it comes to ws spam... returned to drk after a year break, and it just hits like a truck. Did a couple of ambuscades and w3 volte, I was getting up to 45-50k torc, whereas insurgency was reaching 65k-70k.. (not taking into consideration the 7k+ drain III MB).

Bottom line, if you love dark night, go get lib and u won't regret it.

Insurgency is around break even at 1000 and slightly higher at 2000 and 3000, but difference definitely should be that high.

You have better Insurgency set than Torcleaver set or TP thresholds were completely different.

What's Torcleaver? Never heard a WS called that way.
Surely you meant Whiffcleaver?

Torcleaver definitely goes significantly higher than 50k when in a proper set and properly buffed, and given than Insurgency is a 4 hit WS with Mythic AM3 it's going to naturally have much larger WS damage ranges in general, and you generally only remember the highest ones. That's not even counting the fact that humans can't accurately account for how significant Caladbolg's white damage is by eye.

Yea if your torcleaver is only doing 45-50k with the same buffs something wrong with your set or you tping at 1k. Also cala isnt just about the WS either like someone already said the white damage is doing alot of work you cant see with your eye.

Apologies for not posting enough information on the exact conditions/buffs, was just too excited returning to dark. Tried 10 ambuscades VD on each weapon, buffs were: HM Minuet x2 Madrigal x1.. Haste2 Dia IV, and typical rdm debuffs (distract etc.)

Bubbles were entrust indi-str, indi fury, BoG frailty, ES impact. In terms of rolls, they were the typical sam/crooked chaos. Tp was both at ~1600-1700 with Lib being a bit higher due to tp overflow (sometimes it was 1900 or something around that), was not including moonshade tp bonus.

Results were a bit different than what I posted earlier (I think I had the tp values different, but Lib was slightly higher, not taking into consideration white damage, only ws avg)

Had Torc 45k-58k and Insur 50k-62k with some reaching 70k (due to ma proc) Both weapons are R15, not sure if the ws set is BiS or not, as it's been a while, but I think its good

ItemSet 379627
ItemSet 379628

I know this isn't as accurate as Simon's sheet, as the sample size is really small and tp values are not exactly the same, but thought of sharing, and most importantly, happy to see dark back again with a much better survivability sets

My guess is attack not capped or the way you’re holding tp.

I use insurgency at 1000tp with minimal overflow. My sets and yours are very similar, but I can guarantee my torcleavers do more than my insurgencies.

I literally run a Lib and Calad drk at the same time in the same party. The torcleavers are always more.

Missing boost-Vit would also make a difference. You said you were getting STR.

Edit: nvm I read your full post. I usually read this forum when I’m at the gym between sets lol.

Nah its almost exactly the same in sheet. Insurgency has around the same advantage (2-4k) at same TP threshold. Overall Calad has higher DPS tho, especially if you want to use Sakpata for TP set for safety/meva.

For attack cap, Sakpata body/legs/hands are bis for Insurgency. Even at 3000TP where WSD is gaining power. Also Sailfi belt R15, instead of ele belt. Head should be Ratri+1 and feet Ratri+1 or better Nyame B R20. Epam ring is better than Regal. Regal Ring and AF+3 body could be considered accuracy swap.


He said Indi-STR. He havent said anything about Boost, but doing Boost-VIT is an obvious advantage for Torcleaver, but unless you are the only DD or WHM is your alt, I dont see boost-vit being used.

Also, depending on the content, NVDS Absorb VIT is another ~90 VIT, which is a bigger boost than 90 STR for Insurgency. Torcleaver in general scales much better with stuff like Etudes and other attribute buffs.

I had boost-str as I had a cor and a rdm wsing, used endark and absorb str for lib and vit for calad

I believe I was attack capped, with ws set on I had almost 8.4k attack (with Last resort).. Kind of curious how does redemption scale with the 2 weapons, is it similar Simon, or slightly less than both?

Redemption is marginally below Calad once you have AM3 up, but it loses quite a lot of damage to put AM3 (unless attack is hevaily uncapped XD), because Quietus doesnt scale with TP. Also Cross Reaper doesn't self SC and it's WS you want to use for damage with Redemption and ideally you want to hold TP to 2000+ Cross Reapers for higher DPS.

Epam/Regal bis for Tor? I been using Gel R15/Regal...

Many will opt to avoid the Epaminoda's Ring due to the -STP on it affecting TP return on single hit WSs, as it may affect one's xHit build. Combined with depending on your buffs and target, the difference between that and Gelatinous Ring(R15) are pretty small.

These days decisions like this become very personal based on gearsets and goals, and (hopefully) the days of people jumping on the forums for a shopping list are limited. I truly believe many miss out on understanding the reasons behind such guides and the sets they pick when all one needs to do is log on and make a list.

I just sold my epam ring and tbh the damage between the two is so small it doesnt matter. Regal is cheaper and does almost the same as epam without the STP loss.

Have both so was just curious, and yeah when I ask "bis" I pretty much mean perfect conditions. Honestly was just wondering if people saw significant differences in numbers versus one or the other. Ring slot options are typically (for DRK WS) going to be either ACC/STAT/WSD/MA/DT. As I haven't used Epam due to the -STP on Tor I was hoping from information from someone who had done more work than my lazy/busy ***. Granted I agree with you about forums becoming a "one stop shop", but if you can't come here and ask gear questions (among other things) what's the point?

no doubt my friend. It is the place to share ideas, discuss builds, and the current/future state of our jobs and the game we love. But I'm sure you've seen people in game who don't understand why something is BiS, and if the AH doesn't have what the forum told them to get, they think its worthless to even build the job. That saddens me. There's always a 2nd, 3rd, 5th best option that still "makes sense".

I did not mean to imply you're part of that crowd- merely used your post as a chance to talk about that aspect of job-gearing.

This is actually quite interesting in sheet lol
Apparently when trying to spam Torc in set Im using in sheet, switching to Gel. ring drops avg WS damage by like 10%, but dps drops by less than 1%. This is because -sTP drops xhit reducing WS frequency, but it doesnt really matter, because you just end up with much higher tp overflow instead and do much stronger Torcleaver and more white damage.

and thus proving why we should never just eyeball DPS. I often harass @SimonSes about living in a spreadsheet, but raw numbers of the whole picture are needed for us to really critique things. Thanks for that info that shows how one could change rings and think "well this is garbage, my Torcleaver numbers are ***!" and miss the big picture!

Yeah generally AM3 Caladbolg lives in a sweet spot where white damage and tp scaling of Torcleaver is just in the spot when DPS almost doesnt change when holding TP. There is almost 0% dps loss if you hold to 1500+, like 1%+ if you hold to 2000+ and 3% if you hold to 2500+

Redemption is for example different, despite both relying heavily on white damage and scaling WS. Holding tp to 2500+ Cross Reaper boosts DPS by almost 11%.

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Of course, and I apologize for my testiness. I just feel like sometimes on these forums people get the response they're an idiot for asking questions, and if you aren't Martel/Simon/etc. you must be an idiot, and it's a detriment to our community. I would never claim to be the smartest guy in the room, but that's why I am here asking questions. I should have been more thorough in my initial question, but even a little discourse over a simple question can potentially help people just starting out. Love this game and the community and just want it to be respectful to all levels of players. Thanks for your replies everyone!

Niqmaddu/Regal is BiS for attack uncapped (assuming you have enough ACC to not completely whiff additional hits), and Epaminondas/Karieyh +1 is BiS for attack capped.

The difference is usually pretty low between each option, though.

Big question time: Is the new gear outdating any Valorous or Odyssean equipment?

I ask because I have yet to get these pieces (I'm busy doing other stuff), so I'm unsure whether I should keep pumping in stones. Please consider I use valorous and odyssean for all kinds of things, including Store TP on AM3 Liberator sets. I read that Sakpata performs better for GS weaponskills? If it helps, which pieces are you still using and why?

To my knowledge:

For non-DM augments:

Odyssean head: WSDMG (if you haven't built up Path B Nyame), WSDMG/MAB (same)
Odyssean body: Fast Cast
Odyssean hands: WSDMG (if you haven't built up Path B Nyame)
Odyssean legs: Fast Cast, STP
Odyssean feet: Fast Cast
Valorous feet: WSDMG/MAB (if you haven't built up path B Nyame), STP


For DM augments, better versions of all of the above, plus:

Valorous head: QA/TA/DA, Refresh
Odyssean body: STP
Valorous body: QA/TA/DA
Odyssean hands: Fast Cast, Refresh
Valorous hands: QA/TA/DA, STP
Odyssean legs: QA/TA/DA, Refresh
Odyssean feet: Refresh
Valorous feet: QA/TA/DA, WSDMG

Of note is that good enough (not close to perfect, but very good) WSDMG DM augments on Odyssean head and hands and Valorous feet are still situationally useful even if you have Path B R20 Nyame.

There are probably some other super-niche uses, but you get into more and more marginal benefits after this point.

If you're someone like me who focuses all their DM augments on Phalanx for Rune Fencer, it feels like a lot of extreme luck to find super marginal, situational gains on a few of these.

Think I'll give up on the WSdmg ones, and not worry too much about the QA/TA/DA DM augments, because let's face it, you're rarely getting anything worthwhile. Thanks very much Geriond for painting this picture for us.

Additionally you can get Drain/Aspir potency from DM augments, which is relevant in the body slot. Potency in legs and feet slots can have niche uses as well, but don't go out of your way for them.

Also I've gotten some decent Phalanx augments for my Paladin while aiming for QA or WSD augments for my Dark Knight, which I won't turn down!

Your STP needs for Liberator AM3 still likely gonna come from those Valorous/Odyssean gear augments. The Sakpata Set is completely devoid of any natural STP (hands get some via RP augments), and comes with a buttload of Double Attack- definitely not a set of gear that suits Liberator. It is phenomenal for darn near any other weapon we use, though...so of course still worth it. Also, when buffed fully as one would be at a large event, Mixing in some Sakpata into the Insurgency Set can be very good, and much safer than 4/5 or 5/5 Ratri+1.

You can get Drain/Aspir potency from Yorium, so DM will only win at very high values.

Yeah, its not so much of a "Go for a Drain/Aspir augment in body slot" as it is a "If you are going for another augment and happen to get this one, keep it" sort of thing.

Hey all, gearing DRK for the first time can anyone tell me what is the must have AF I need?

Caladbolg