(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

I specifically stated during ws animation

which means absolutely nothing

Even putting aside how the animation of a WS has 0 effect on WS frequency, you literally said those videos were examples of TP gain in the 2 seconds.

Incorrect, the statement was how liberator does NOT ws 50%-65% more than calad and it was a misleading statement.
In order to fully come out of the animation of a weaponskill you are still often walking away with enough TP to weapon skill again. The entire premise of this completely stupid topic was that you still weapon skill fast enough regardless of the weapon to reduce the 50%-65% ws frequency gap claim.


The Ruaumoko video shows ws animation start at 1:46, at 1:47 he clearly gains tp.

With Liberator, you should be WSing again BEFORE your WS animation finishes. If you're waiting for the animation to finish, no wonder you're not seeing much of a difference in WS frequency.

Read previous edit

this means nothing, the animation has nothing to do with the delay. you can dat swap your ws animation to something short and you're still forced to have the same delay as a 4 second long animation.

That TP at 1:47 was from Meditate, not meleeing.

You don't have to come out of the previous animation. It's entirely possible to WS while still in the middle of the previous animation.

From 146tp to 340 tp, I think not

Just because you don't see the hits does not mean they aren't happening. I.E. Ruau's video with only 1 second from the ws start until 194tp was gained. Obviously not from meditate as meditate is 120 per tick. Not from damage as he takes no damage in that time frame, in face he gains 10 hp from what looks like a regen effect most likely from vorseals

After he WSs at 1:46, you can literally watch the log and see he doesn't swing again until 1:49/1:50. The TP at 1:47 is the TP gained from a Meditate tick + Neak double attacking him + possibly other regain from Monarch's Drink or Tactician's roll.

I have no idea where you're getting 146 to 340; he has 414 after the WS, then 836 after the meditate tick + double Neak hits.

Neak isn't in this video,

using trust which never gives regain rolls, temp tp items does not give 76 tp regain, it gives 30 tp per tick. He also doesn't use the regain temp.
Meditate was used back at 1:19 and only has a 15 second duration.
Therefore he has ZERO regain during the time of the weaponskill

Er oops, I was looking at the Ejin video.

What Ruaumoko video are you talking about? The first one is Ejin and the second is Anierr.

That would be my fault, looks like I never pasted the link.

https://youtu.be/tsjZAtjHo50

At 1:19 he uses meditate, ends by 1:34 no regain at that point.
Does not use regain temp, you can still see it in his inventory.
Uses cor rolls, qultada never uses tact roll
At 1:46 you see the weapon skill, at 1:47 you see a 196tp increase.
Does not have hate at the time and takes no damage, only see a 10tick regen which I assume is vorseal

There is literally no possible way to get 196 tp without an attack being used hidden by the ws animation within 1 second of the ws

on my screen he ws at 1:44.

He WSs at 1:44 and gains TP from a melee swing at 1:47, 68 frames apart. That's more than 2 seconds.

On my screen fresh browser, cleared cookies/temps
I slowed it down as much as possible, clicked pause over and over, it was ws at 1:45 and tp gain at 1:46

Before clearing I was getting 1:46 and 1:47

you can literally do one frame at a time with the comma and period buttons and see for yourself.

Use Youtube's frame skip (on my keyboard, it's , and . when the screen is paused) to see the exact starting and TP gain times.

He gains TP 2.267 seconds after he WSs.

exact frame tp is expended
exact frame he gets tp from an auto attack, 68 frames later

still in the ws animation, because the animation doesn't mean a damn thing

https://imgur.com/Om7u5yj

That is frame by frame the moment he readies on my screen

You can't go by "Readies"; the chat log is slower than the actual combat, and so is the animation. The actual time the WS is executed is when the TP is consumed and the mob's HP goes down, which is the frame shown on Austar's first picture.

Even still, now that this is wildly off topic. It doesn't change the fact that liberator is 50%-65% more weapon skills than calad. Even in the event that you wait 2 seconds, you have to do the same on both weapons.
Most calad sets are running 4 hit with regal neck cor and more than 50% double attack, where as most AM3 lib are 2-3 hit in same buffs running off AM3 Occ attk 2-3 at 40%/20%
That gives them pretty damn close to the same attack rounds for tp phase after ws.

Nit picking the wording of "coming out of weapon skill" won't change the fact that Calad is not that far behind Lib in ws frequency.

Its like you guys completely ignored the words "very roughly." By very roughly I mean plus or minus 25% varying by circumstance.

And no, Caladbolg is not anywhere near as fast as Liberator.
If you are arguing that it is just as fast, you either don't own a Liberator, or are completely wasting the one you have.

I have both, and I consistently get frustrated because of how slow Calad feels compared to Lib, and my Calad build is no slouch. I can revisit my spreadsheets to look at breakpoints, but gearwise there is really not much room for the kind of significant difference you seem to believe in.

As for the videos, all I'm taking away from them is more evidence that after Lib, everything else seems slow. Those videos are slow compared to Lib WS rate.

Is my comparison anectodal? Absolutely. Unless I clone myself I'm never going to get a really accurate comparison, but you know what? I'm sticking to what I said.

With a good Samurai Roll, good Caladbolg sets have somewhere around 1.65 attacks per round and 105 STP, while good Liberator sets have somewhere around 1.85 attacks per round and 155 STP.

Combined with Insurgency giving noticeably more TP than Torcleaver (both because of higher base delay and the 3-5 additional hits), that's a substantial difference. Maybe not a full 50%, but easily 30-40%.

You guys are talking about R15 Liberator and spamming WSs within the previous WS animations, i.e. "faster than Calad", so I assume you mean at 1k TP with overflow. Is this WS spamming using a WS other than Insurgency? Because using Insurgency at 1k TP makes absolutely no sense due to its massive fTP scaling.

Stacked WSD 2k TP + overflow should be the standard for Insurgency, unless I'm mistaken, which should put it roughly at the same WS speed as Caladbolg.

You are making up all kinds of numbers, first was 50%, then you changed it to 65%, now you are saying +/- 25%

I have 89 stp lib build, with every pieces of gear from the high end guides and more.
The fact I have personally done 12 ws less than a liberator with my calad on a fight with the exact same buffs disproves your numbers.
Those videos also aren't running full buffs either so yeah, they will look slower than your AM3 Lib

With Moonshade earring, under AM3 a proper Insurgency set has roughly even DoT when used anywhere between 1500-2500 TP due to how it starts off with 3 extra hits and often gets more from AM3. If you have Diamond Storm or Warcry, you'll be wanting to WS as early as humanly possible.

There has been zero changing of numbers. There has been a clarification as to what I meant by "very roughly" but no numbers have changed. The post was not edited. Don't talk out your ***.

Go reread your post, you never said anything about +/- 25%, you stated 50% then you changed it to 65% in the same post.

That is cute coming from the guy that hasn't parsed it and doesn't seem to realize both weapons have delay.

The fact that I put out 12 less ws on calad than another drk did with lib AM3 on a 13 minute fight means 1 of 2 things.

I am right an 50%-65% is nowhere near an accurate claim without stating something like "no cor roll" or "no haste."
Later claiming you meant +/- 25% just to justify your numbers. That was, as originally stated, misleading or flat out made up.

Or, you are weapon skilling on a 0.5 ftp mod at 1k tp and horribly nerfing your own dmg.
Either way, you shouldn't be trying to tell people that Lib is the way to go without more context.

Go parse it the next time you do wave 3, see how many ws you get on lib vs calad. If you are getting 50-65% more ws on lib, your calad sets are off.
There is no reason you shouldn't be mashing the weapon skill button on literally any job at this point.