"Another Mistake Like FF14 Would "Destroy" Square"
"Another Mistake Like FF14 Would "Destroy" Square"
I dont understand how this one failed title, one not many ff patrons even played to begin with, would "destroy" the company. XI has been making them such ridiculous bank alone, and what about all the 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13 bank .. ?
The initial problem wasn't even all that complicated as having the exact right mix of elements though. It was a bad game they expected people to invest heavily in. The basic economy wasn't even close to functioning upon release, even after an extensive beta cycle. The content was comprised of unbalanced leveling areas, with a broken party system, broken travel system with solely leveling quests, with a few missions sprinkled here and there. There wasn't much content beyond that, and after they realized the mistake they made, it took them months and years to recover from it.
The game was clearly not ready for commercial release when it was released, which was the biggest problem. They had so many faults that they could not recover without a complete overhaul of the game.
The game was clearly not ready for commercial release when it was released, which was the biggest problem. They had so many faults that they could not recover without a complete overhaul of the game.
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Ragnarok.Blurrski said: »
I dont understand how this one failed title, one not many ff patrons even played to begin with, would "destroy" the company. XI has been making them such ridiculous bank alone, and what about all the 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13 bank .. ?
Anything from the old generations were moot at this point, and 13 had mixed reviews from mixed audiences, no longer the core rpg fanatic, that was sure to buy their games.
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Lol. I don't know how you could tolerate things like zoning into market wards. Instead of the intelligent option of walking up to an AH NPC/counter like every other game, you zone into a room and wait and wait and wait for all the npc's to load. It was just like standing in Rolanberry fields (or whatever zone your server used) during the days of the Jeuno tax.
11's downfall started around the time Rapture was announced. People had mixed feelings about ToAU and a lot of people disliked WotG. WotG's only saving grace was Campaign IMO, and being the campaign that Level Sync and FoV were introduced in.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
11's downfall started around the time Rapture was announced. People had mixed feelings about ToAU and a lot of people disliked WotG. WotG's only saving grace was Campaign IMO, and being the campaign that Level Sync and FoV were introduced in.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
Aside from the obvious loss of investment in creating a multimillion dollar game that no one played, reputation is at stake in that releasing another clusterfuck comparable to 14's initial release would cripple SE's ability to maintain any semblance of credibility in the MMO market.
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Funny though, there are a few companies that have released a few overhyped flops (or games that made a bad turn early and flopped) and they're still chugging along.
I am very endeared to the japanese sense of reputation, embarrassment, and shame even if my only exposure to it is in stereotype settings.
(Funcom, Sony, NCSoft)
I am very endeared to the japanese sense of reputation, embarrassment, and shame even if my only exposure to it is in stereotype settings.
(Funcom, Sony, NCSoft)
Other games weren't a flagship title in their main series though. And the investment required in an mmo is significantly different from a shitty 20 hour single player game. They didnt expect to recoup anywhere near their costs off initial sales.
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Valefor.Omnys said: »
Lol. I don't know how you could tolerate things like zoning into market wards.
I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
11's downfall started around the time Rapture was announced. People had mixed feelings about ToAU and a lot of people disliked WotG. WotG's only saving grace was Campaign IMO, and being the campaign that Level Sync and FoV were introduced in.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
11's downfall started when they started recycling content and releasing it as new expansions. I think ToAU was the last satisfactory expansion; all the ones that followed were the same zones but with a few differences. Whilst WotG had a compelling storyline, it did not make up for the fact that all but three of the zones were essentially remodelled versions of zones we've been playing with for years.
It has nothing to do with 14. If anything, 14 brought more players back to 11.
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Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Ragnarok.Blurrski said: »
I dont understand how this one failed title, one not many ff patrons even played to begin with, would "destroy" the company. XI has been making them such ridiculous bank alone, and what about all the 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13 bank .. ?
Anything from the old generations were moot at this point, and 13 had mixed reviews from mixed audiences, no longer the core rpg fanatic, that was sure to buy their games.
I guess.. Personally, I feel like no matter what though, non mmo platform final fantasies will sell big. Im just hard pressed to believe SE will "have to close up shop" or anything of the like, because of 14. I think they would need at least a couple of those non mmo platformers to fail HUGE, before they had to worry about that.
As bad as 10 and 13 were imo too, I dont consider any of the non mmos to be failures.
edit: even if 15 ends up being worse than anything, I think as long as 16s not another mmo, it will still sell just as big as its predecessors too, regardless.
The markets changed though. I liked 10 but thought 13 was ok and 12 was meh. Some people hated 10 and loved 13. its no longer the go to rpg where everyone will love it no matter what.
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Aeyela said: »
Valefor.Omnys said: »
Lol. I don't know how you could tolerate things like zoning into market wards.
I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
11's downfall started around the time Rapture was announced. People had mixed feelings about ToAU and a lot of people disliked WotG. WotG's only saving grace was Campaign IMO, and being the campaign that Level Sync and FoV were introduced in.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
11's downfall started when they started recycling content and releasing it as new expansions. I think ToAU was the last satisfactory expansion; all the ones that followed were the same zones but with a few differences. Whilst WotG had a compelling storyline, it did not make up for the fact that all but three of the zones were essentially remodelled versions of zones we've been playing with for years.
It has nothing to do with 14. If anything, 14 brought more players back to 11.
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
The markets changed though. I liked 10 but thought 13 was ok and 12 was meh. Some people hated 10 and loved 13. its no longer the go to rpg where everyone will love it no matter what.
That's the beauty of the Final Fantasy games. There's so many with varying levels of success and popularity that one guy loves one and another guy hates it. In my opinion, no other series divides its fanbase in such a glorious way! I genuinely think this is one of the key points that makes the Final Fantasy series as good as it is. It caters to a broad taste of people and has a game for everyone.
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
part of the problem was they were experimenting with endgame wotg content. They wanted a new system for endgame that didn't copy kings, and they ended up with mobs that were miserable to farm, with lackluster loot.
Haha. I still have nightmares about 75 cap Lightning Spear. :\
Aeyela said: »
Valefor.Omnys said: »
11's downfall started around the time Rapture was announced. People had mixed feelings about ToAU and a lot of people disliked WotG. WotG's only saving grace was Campaign IMO, and being the campaign that Level Sync and FoV were introduced in.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
Actually I liked WotG, but a lot of people did not.
More money got put into XIV and XI got less.
11's downfall started when they started recycling content and releasing it as new expansions. I think ToAU was the last satisfactory expansion; all the ones that followed were the same zones but with a few differences. Whilst WotG had a compelling storyline, it did not make up for the fact that all but three of the zones were essentially remodelled versions of zones we've been playing with for years.
It has nothing to do with 14. If anything, 14 brought more players back to 11.
Rapture was first mentioned in 2005, ToAU came out in 06. Wings of the Goddess in 07.
In more concise words: As more money was invested into XIV, XI got less attention.
I mean, again, I liked WotG, but while recycling zones for Dynamis was a neat concept, doing it in two more expansions was very lame, but it sure saves a lot on development costs.
Even VW is a lot of recycling. I know I've fought Qilin somewhere before, I just can't quite place it...
I agree with its not the same goto franchise rpg everyone will love no matter what but.. I think, at this point anyway, its still one everyone will at least get, no matter what. Till a couple more horror stories like 14 happen anyway, and on bigger scales. Just MY thoughts.
edit: by everyone I mean final fantasy fans/patrons.
edit: by everyone I mean final fantasy fans/patrons.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
Rapture was first mentioned in 2005, ToAU came out in 06. Wings of the Goddess in 07.
In more concise words: As more money was invested into XIV, XI got less attention.
I mean, again, I liked WotG, but while recycling zones for Dynamis was a neat concept, doing it in two more expansions was very lame, but it sure saves a lot on development costs.
Even VW is a lot of recycling. I know I've fought Qilin somewhere before, I just can't quite place it...
In more concise words: As more money was invested into XIV, XI got less attention.
I mean, again, I liked WotG, but while recycling zones for Dynamis was a neat concept, doing it in two more expansions was very lame, but it sure saves a lot on development costs.
Even VW is a lot of recycling. I know I've fought Qilin somewhere before, I just can't quite place it...
Indeed. One of the mains reasons I quit to play 14 for awhile is because of all the recycled content. Abyssea was the straw that broke this camel's back.
Ironic because 14 was so crappy at first that I ended up playing neither. But make no mistake, Yoshi-P turned 14 into something quite playable and enjoyable. I have high expectations and optimism for 2.0 whenever it does come out; and I'm not hoping for a Spring release as quoted so that I maintain this cheerful optimism whenever it is that I do end up playing it again. :)
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I'm not saying XIV won't be a fun game. I just wish they'd've made the right call playing triage.
XI has a lot more going for it, or did, than XIV did.
Here I am, building my first relics (I always wanted an aegis), and as attached to my character, my paladin, and my dear friends as I am, I ask myself how much life this game has.
Whatever day it shuts down, it didn't have to be that way. Poor decisions brought us here.
XI has a lot more going for it, or did, than XIV did.
Here I am, building my first relics (I always wanted an aegis), and as attached to my character, my paladin, and my dear friends as I am, I ask myself how much life this game has.
Whatever day it shuts down, it didn't have to be that way. Poor decisions brought us here.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
Here I am, building my first relics (I always wanted an aegis), and as attached to my character, my paladin, and my dear friends as I am, I ask myself how much life this game has.
Hey, I know that feeling! I started keeping my currency split with the intention of building an Annihilator in 2007. I will actually finish that goal by this christmas. But then the part in my head that knows I will jump ship to A Realm Reborn asks why the hell I'm bothering. Long term goals, huh?
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I think when people talk about 14 killing 11 they are looking at how the game is right now. SE continues to chug along making 14v2 and we are in the worst content drought in FFXI that I can ever remember. Do the two have anything to do with eachother? Probably not much in reality, but it's something to blame.
Asura.Failaras said: »
I think when people talk about 14 killing 11 they are looking at how the game is right now. SE continues to chug along making 14v2 and we are in the worst content drought in FFXI that I can ever remember. Do the two have anything to do with eachother? Probably not much in reality, but it's something to blame.
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Asura.Failaras said: »
I think when people talk about 14 killing 11 they are looking at how the game is right now. SE continues to chug along making 14v2 and we are in the worst content drought in FFXI that I can ever remember. Do the two have anything to do with eachother? Probably not much in reality, but it's something to blame.
True. I appreciate this point of view entirely (though I know I haven't conveyed much sympathy to it in this thread.) I suppose I have the luxury of having taken a 15 month break from this game; when I quit, Voidwatch had not been added. Too bad it's more recycled content but I definitely prefer this loot system.
That's another thing I liked in 14. When you did primal fights everyone was given their own loot chest. Whilst it sucked to see the level 0 Pugilist obtain a squeaky pair of Moogle Fists you want, it was also good knowing every fight you had a shot at drops and weren't going to be outlotted by the guy that lots every-***-thing that drops.
So I was pleasantly surprised to hear they'd added it to 11. Then I did my first voidwatch and hated it, lol. This game is a barrel of laughs in so many ways.
Basically, 11 was keeping the lights on. It's one thing to to the investors and say "We're gonna try and turn this thing around, but we're still making money thanks to 11.". It's another thing to say "We're gonna try and turn this thing around, but to staff both games is going to cost us money or to make none.".
Investors don't care if 10% of subscriptions are dualboxes and 50% are bazaars.
Investors don't care if 10% of subscriptions are dualboxes and 50% are bazaars.
Aeyela said: »
Asura.Failaras said: »
I think when people talk about 14 killing 11 they are looking at how the game is right now. SE continues to chug along making 14v2 and we are in the worst content drought in FFXI that I can ever remember. Do the two have anything to do with eachother? Probably not much in reality, but it's something to blame.
True. I appreciate this point of view entirely (though I know I haven't conveyed much sympathy to it in this thread.) I suppose I have the luxury of having taken a 15 month break from this game; when I quit, Voidwatch had not been added. Too bad it's more recycled content but I definitely prefer this loot system.
That's another thing I liked in 14. When you did primal fights everyone was given their own loot chest. Whilst it sucked to see the level 0 Pugilist obtain a squeaky pair of Moogle Fists you want, it was also good knowing every fight you had a shot at drops and weren't going to be outlotted by the guy that lots every-***-thing that drops.
So I was pleasantly surprised to hear they'd added it to 11. Then I did my first voidwatch and hated it, lol. This game is a barrel of laughs in so many ways.
If only both games would let you share loot you couldn't obtain/didn't want. I don't know if XIV did, but that's definitely a major complaint of voidwatch. "The war-main/war-only can now cast cures 15% faster AND MORE POTENT! VICTORY?".
In a pug, sure, I'd take my spare body as a cell and go home, but with friends. Sure I'd pass them a body. I certainly would in a linkshell group where I knew their progression made the progression of the rest of us easier.
WoW answered this by allowing gear a period of 2 hours where it could be traded to people who were present for the kill before it became soulbound (rare). So (because it wasn't exclusive), you could take it and give it to a friend.. even though everyone shared one lootbox and so it was usually done by rolling to try to ensure your friend won something.
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Valefor.Omnys said: »
If only both games would let you share loot you couldn't obtain/didn't want. I don't know if XIV did, but that's definitely a major complaint of voidwatch. "The war-main/war-only can now cast cures 15% faster AND MORE POTENT! VICTORY?".
In a pug, sure, I'd take my spare body as a cell and go home, but with friends. Sure I'd pass them a body. I certainly would in a linkshell group where I knew their progression made the progression of the rest of us easier.
WoW answered this by allowing gear a period of 2 hours where it could be traded to people who were present for the kill before it became soulbound (rare). So (because it wasn't exclusive), you could take it and give it to a friend.. even though everyone shared one lootbox and so it was usually done by rolling to try to ensure your friend won something.
In a pug, sure, I'd take my spare body as a cell and go home, but with friends. Sure I'd pass them a body. I certainly would in a linkshell group where I knew their progression made the progression of the rest of us easier.
WoW answered this by allowing gear a period of 2 hours where it could be traded to people who were present for the kill before it became soulbound (rare). So (because it wasn't exclusive), you could take it and give it to a friend.. even though everyone shared one lootbox and so it was usually done by rolling to try to ensure your friend won something.
Alas, no. Such a system did not exist in 14. But, to be fair, only primal fights were a problem. All other rare/ex gear dropped from dungeons that could be spammed repeatedly or from NMs that respawned every 5 minutes. At least SE got that part right.
The WoW system sounds good. I would love to give a DRK Friend the Borealis I went 1/1 on yesterday because I don't plan on ever levelling it. Seems silly that it's now sat on my mule getting dusty when dozens of my friends would happily use one.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
Basically, 11 was keeping the lights on. It's one thing to to the investors and say "We're gonna try and turn this thing around, but we're still making money thanks to 11.". It's another thing to say "We're gonna try and turn this thing around, but to staff both games is going to cost us money or to make none.".
Investors don't care if 10% of subscriptions are dualboxes and 50% are bazaars.
Investors don't care if 10% of subscriptions are dualboxes and 50% are bazaars.
I really hate this sentiment. It's only partly true. 14 did have paying subscribers...
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You don't have to like it, it's true. 11 paid for 14's resurrection.
I am sorry.
I am sorry.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
You don't have to like it, it's true. 11 paid for 14's resurrection.
I am sorry.
I am sorry.
I don't normally do this, do forgive me on this occasion. But prove it? All you are doing is spreading unfounded rhetoric.
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FF14 hit 15k subscribers as far as I can remember reading. I found a post surmising that the game had 12k subsribers.
Still, at 15k subscribers, that's $150k a month. Servers and maintenance programers and GMs cost quite a bit just to maintain a game. Many MMOs are costing several-tens (50-100+ million to build).
XIV bringing in $1.8m a year was supposed to pay for it's own maintenance and rebuilding. Sure, rebuilding a game, and building a game don't entail all the same costs, but more than $4m (from the 2 years, rounded up).
More than $10m.
So they dropped Briaerus in East Ronfaure {S} and raised Kirin's level to keep us busy while we paid for 14.
Edit: Meant to provide the link
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
Still, at 15k subscribers, that's $150k a month. Servers and maintenance programers and GMs cost quite a bit just to maintain a game. Many MMOs are costing several-tens (50-100+ million to build).
XIV bringing in $1.8m a year was supposed to pay for it's own maintenance and rebuilding. Sure, rebuilding a game, and building a game don't entail all the same costs, but more than $4m (from the 2 years, rounded up).
More than $10m.
So they dropped Briaerus in East Ronfaure {S} and raised Kirin's level to keep us busy while we paid for 14.
Edit: Meant to provide the link
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
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