The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Yes in my test I have been running its been very apparent the importance on macc on nukes. I think I mention it multiple times. There is definitely a balance for it.

ammo, neck, waist (no weather/day) are spot on. I think we even include these anyhow it our sets, this is pretty wide knowledge. I only used ghastly to test with and see how accurate the spreadsheet was. Though now I realize ghastly > seething by a quite large jump for one slott, but will still get pemp soon.

The back really at this point in the game you can get a ambuscade cape so easily (3 per month, already 5 months = 5 job with 3 capes each, who heck "plays" more than that as mains?). Get one! I got one and it really does wonders for the job. Your nukes do considerably more and your looking at 20 int 5 macc over anything else. Thats a large increase for a macc starved job, and the int does a huge amount considering your normally 100~ int in gear tops. That with stikini rings alone pushes me from almost never wanting to cast an enfeeble because I know a damn apex crab would resist it, to now pulling with hojo on every mob and enjoying that -20% attack speed (more shadow time, melee time, nuke time). It really was THAT huge for me.

I plan to do this month my 4th nin cape, a FC/eva/agil. Not really much else to put on it that goes with FC, and will dual as a decent eva cape and tanking cape (maeva). Technically if your not a hardcore NiN, you should still do a mix between this and a nuke cape. I would get 10 FC/ 20 macc / 20 int which would still give you the best nuking cape bar perfect andartia, and FC which every nin wants. You cannot get a double MB off on nin easily without very good FC.

The benefit and downfall of nin nuking is the small gear selection. Lucky for us we get the easy to acquire herculean pieces we need to nuke with (hands,feet,legs) all which are soloable by nin. You may struggle a little on feet, but other 2 are a pushover, you could technically do them in any 119 gear at a slow but safe pace.

When you get your herc gear, and your augmenting it. Then ideally you want macc/mab/int/mbd all which is possible to get together. So no reason to ever have to sacrifice one stat over the other. Catch em all!

Those are fine, aim for kanaria/ochu for now if you do not plan to get REAM. Those are best and kanaria is very easy to obtain, pay someone 2m (a bargain for its dps) or farm up your own pops which is also easy, and kill them yourself (can be done in 2-3hrs~) You will get tons wanting to farm coladas, and the katan is normally a rot drop by now.

Ehhh, thanks but that's really out of my reach. I mostly just leveled nin so I could solo some stuff that I find hard to solo on cor. That's why I was aiming low for now.

Think of it in a time/cost ratio. You only get so many hours to play right? You can farm 1.5m/hr avg easily (salvage/dyna/many options), so in 1 hr 15 mins you have enough to buy 1 kanaria, 2 hrs 30 mins to get the 2 (normally even less because if you buy 2 I am sure colada sellers would give you a good deal, like 2nd for 1mil or less).

you "Could" spend an hr here or there trying to get situational/semi useful katanas, or just go strait for the big boys and save all the time (probably more than the 2.5 hrs to get the gil) and not have to worry about what to do or not. My 2 large very wise pennies for you :D

They are not out of your reach at all. Literally more in your reach than anything else atm. Any UNM katana your going for will probably require a group (with friends your better off farming incursion for the pops for ironside himself), or lots of trial and error as a solo cor (since you mentioned that). I can assure you at the end of the day you will have lost time/money/FuturefriendHelp/accolades all to just be even more a waste of time when you realize kanaria is kind of a requirement at this point in the game to play a 'subpar' dd and not be considered gimp. I would be hard press to ever play with a Nin at this point who couldnt even spend the time to get good weapons, when its one of the few jobs who really have it easy for its best non-REAM weapons.

oh btw, you will want a shigi eventually too. That requires nothing but gil its our JSE weapon and extremely good. I use it whenever I need acc. However its about 5mil atm with my servers prices haha!!! Like I said kanarai is your best cheapest option atm.

I understand what you're saying, however one thingI'm never ever ever getting back together playing nin with others. Cor is pretty much my one and only job. Like I said this was just for more me-time for things cor can't solo.

Eh, I get your point that it's not THAT hard, but it's still a fairly niche use for something that might not be everyone's priority. I can't really fault anyone for deciding to do something like make a TP or WS cape for even a less used DD job that would absolutely the destroy next best option. Plus, each cape = lost opportunity cost of a whole lot of gil from RMEA upgrade items.

I mean, I'll probably still make a NIN nuke cape this month, but I haven't gotten around to it yet even with 4/5 months getting 5/5 armor+1 (I skipped doing Ambuscade during the Inyanga set month on my main, in favor of doing it only on my mage alt/mule). In that time I made 9 max capes (excluding dye), for 4 jobs - all of which I do actively play frequently. I wouldn't prioritize NIN nuking over a single one of these:

PUP x3: TP, WS, Pet tanking
NIN x2: TP, WS (DEX - and frankly I'd like to build an AGI-focused one too, purely for Hi)
BLU x2: TP/WS, Nuke
DNC x2: TP, WS

So far this month I made a MNK TP/WS cape for #10 (despite being sad about the current state of MNK as a job, I do still have a soft spot for it and want to keep it geared - and that cape utterly destroys everything else for MNK's absolutely core role as a DD). That doesn't even account for me wanting to do a few capes for my not quite as often used jobs - a THF cape or two, a RUN cape, etc.

So, yeah, I'll eventually finish a Ninjutsu cape but it's like... in the mid-teens as far as my priorities across all my jobs.


Aizushintogo (from Palila, T2 Escha-Ru'Aun) is very solid if you don't pick up a Kanaria or Ochu. DMG+15 from augment brings it to 138, for likely a whole lot less money than hoping for a good Izuna augment to get something on par. Plus, the Utsu cast time -7% doesn't hurt for solo.

I'd echo the Kanaria comments though if you can manage to get that. COR is quite helpful in the typical nuke setup people use for Ironsides and most people are there for the sword anyway. Or an Ochu if you happen to get one from SR.

Also, screw paying to merc a Kanaria from a relatively easy Reisenjima NM... if you have a COR, and ever see anyone doing the fight, ask if you can join up and lot the katana. The COR is gonna be helpful and most people won't care about the katana. I know I'd have no problem letting someone like that join if I was fighting it...

Anything Escha is out for me. SR I'm hoping I'll get it, but I was thinking just Unity/Battlefields really as entry level. I'll look into the jse too.

Kinda irrelevant to the job thread but just want to chime in and provide some info, COR is pretty good as a solo job now thanks to trusts. Runiest, Magus or gallant roll on trusts make them a whole lot harder to kill thus getting an advantage over jobs that can't use defensive buff on trusts. For example when soloing Oryx, trust with defensive rolls takes way less dmg tham trusts without, making them alot easier to survive without campaign.

Also COR can dps outside of aoe if aoe is a concern. You can also give trusts defensive rolls and self buff offensive ones.

Caster roll for sub nin allows cor to blink tank like NIN, BLU or RUN with high lv of FC, and sub SCH can aoe sleep adds.

Many ilv 135 or lower NM should be soloable on COR. I don't know if NIN would have easier time to solo those COR can't solo.

If you're 119, you can do most Unity up to 122-125 and most battlefields on Normal. You'll just have to adjust your rolls depending on the situation. Gessho works really well vs a lot of things if you can buff his Fast Cast and Haste.

What are these things? Off the top of my head I cant think of anything, nin is a good solo job, but requires tons of gear IMO to do so. I would do something else like bst/blu/sch for a solo job at this point going from what you say. Plus your not paying tool costs
If you are already doing SR then ya, go for ochu, but let me warn you i do 100+ a month and I have only seen 1 ochu..... and it has ***augs lol. Not gona be something really to "plan" on. The Aizushintogo was a good idea, but between cost for pops+elixirs you will have spent dang close probably to what paying a merc for kanaria would be. Again, I really really really really cant understand the issue with just forking out 2m, or 2 hrs to farm the pops in incursion, there is no reason not to if you will be playing nin. figure out which costs you less and just do it :D jse will run you 3mil+ minimum, so ya for what you say thats out of the picture. Cant really help ya much more man :D good advice has been given take it or leave it.I know you have been bashing nin nuking for awhile lol.... still got the nin nuke hate. That is ok, but just remember this is the NIN forum, not pup/mnk/run/blu/dnc etc and for nin and what it is actually used on I would personally put a nuking cape as a 3rd on priority list for nin, considering the fact we have had many months of ambuscade still, this is very relevant for a career nin to get and really for me was a game changer on being able to utilize nins magic capabilities more.

for example I could argue that your PUP is your main, by the fact you got a ws/tp cape. The only thing good about pup anymore is its ability to tank a few select NM like a pro that none can match. I love pup for this, but technically your other 2 capes are completely useless in those only pup-useful scenarios, thus by default making them overall useless (moreso than a nin nuke cape since that is a very potent aspect of the job for its uses). Its not being mean, I like the fact you took time to gear your pup well, and idc about popularity, ill take someone who does less dps in a pty because they are a good player and fun, then a jerk who has "x perfect job". Also by missing that month of ambuscade you could have got your mnk/thf/run cape already, thus being in the position to get nins this month easily :D

I am not trying to bash you to much. I just notice that ANYTIME nin capes, nuking, enfeebling, etc comes up here on the nin forum your the strongest voiced saying its ***. Yet you profess yourself that you are not merited to nuke and NEVER do it.... I do it, test it, love it, and can tell you its a very very potent part of the job atm. So much so that not getting a set for it really is kind of gimping yourself on the job. Apex wise, with some more testing etc, we might find a way to do consistent 99k nukes, or atleast 60k which is WAY over what most jobs can contribute to apex pty and way more than your dps melee will ever be.

In terms of nin capes; I would prioritize them as such, for those curious, will use 6 since ambuscade been out that long:
1.) DEX/ACC/DA - tp cape/ shun badass (decent ws until #2)
2.) WSD cape - either agi/acc/wsd for hi users, or dex/acc/wsd for metsu (already have shun cape, and thsi is 2nd best for ten)
3.) INT/macc/mab cape (best nuke cape, great enfeebling cape)
4.) 2nd WSD cape, w/e one you didnt do in #2
5.) FC cape, this can change on needs but my prefered is FC/maeva/agi
6.) final wsd cape (probably str/aacc/wsd for ten)

I feel that most career Nin's will hit this soonish, most I know on my server have 4~ by now. I play 5 jobs actively for my ls and am on my 4th nin this month. Most player's will never have 5 jobs they actively play, so I consider myself at the extreme end, but yes everyjob has like 4~ usable capes by definition, but if you dont use those jobs you cap out on capes quickly.

a question likely answered, but i have not seen. has anyone recently brought nin to MB ru'aun/reisen nms? t2/t3 and reported results? curious to see the difference in performance going from apex to escha. if maybe there are variences in gear we must account for, because the MB set is fairly solid.

if anyone has results please share.
(prefferably with geo/sch/cor bbuffs)

I'm with you that Kanaria is really the way to go, but if someone just doesn't want to do a rather easy NM (honestly, easier than most 125+ UNMs) for arguably the best non-RMEA weapon for the job in the game, hey, their decision... I also agree with you on the point about what the heck are you "soloing" on NIN if you're not even willing to attempt Escha-Ru'Aun level content.

I just don't get the ease at jumping to "PAY MERCS" as the solution when we're talking about NMs that a COR could easily contribute to even by doing nothing more than rolling and standing there. Doesn't anyone actually want to play the game, and not just pay people to get them stuff?


You're the one who brought up the use of other jobs: "5 job with 3 capes each, who heck "plays" more than that as mains".

Plus, out of the 4 jobs I listed, only one of which I've made 3 capes for at this point, ONE OF THE FOUR JOBS WAS NINJA.

I was just illustrating that even for me getting 14.5k+ points in 4 of 5 months (and using the 5th to focus more on my second character, sorry if the way I manage my playtime isn't satisfactory to you), I'm just now getting around to the point where I'm looking at NIN capes that are maybe 3rd-4th best augmented cape for the job.

Some people will not prioritize NIN as much as you do, might not have been doing Ambuscade consistently since release, might have been spending points on money items, etc. It's not that insane to think a player might not have the 3rd or 4th most useful ambuscade cape for a job by this point, and not everyone has capped points since the beginning of ambuscade. Those same people might still want to nuke on NIN in a CP party, so is it that crazy that I suggested one back option that's probably the next best choice for someone who didn't get around to a nuke ambuscade cape yet?

Now you're just sounding ignorant. Just like many people are not very aware than NIN can put out some respectable nukes on stuff like Apex mobs, you apparently are not aware that a good PUP is far from "useless" in a melee role on the exact same kind of content. Master+Puppet (I personally have PUP mythic so especially so, but even JSE weapon is the same story) can be a total total self-SC - light or dark - MACHINE with the puppet, while also tanking the mob and requiring no healing support. All the while freeing up people like mages and NINJAS to burst to their little hearts' content.

So if you're gonna call that "useless" just because it isn't filling the same tanking role PUP would fill on difficult endgame NMs... then it's fair to call NIN nuking capes equally "useless" since it's generally not as high a priority role for NIN as being a melee DD, and usually when you nuke it's gonna be on stuff like CP mobs. Personally I don't think either one is "useless", but if you're gonna start throwing around uninformed nonsense...


The entire point that seemed to get you all up in arms is that I made a post where I was NOT badmouthing NIN nuking in the least. I was just listing some good Macc options and agreeing with Sechs that Macc is a really important consideration that's worth reminding people about.

Heaven forbid I list a back option in that conversation while mentioning that it wasn't as good as an Ambuscade cape, but was a reasonable alternative for those who hadn't yet made an Ambuscade cape (better than stuff people might consider, like, say a Toro Cape or Argochampsa Mantle)...

And when did I EVER say anything bad about enfeebling??? If anything, all I've ever said here about enfeebles is to make some of the very few posts even discussing the topic, to share some good current sets.

I'll admit that maybe I've been a little pessimistic about NIN as a nuker (because I feel you're only ever going to reasonably do it on Apex mobs and trash), though I am not saying it doesn't have its place in CP situations. But you're WAY too optimistic with absolute nonsense like:

I mean, come on man. I know you're excited about trying to do the best you can with NIN nuking, but nobody's gonna take you seriously with ridiculous statements like that...

I would go ahead and get Tancho, a unity katana. Shigi is quite good as an offhand, even in the greater context of the game.

*sighs*

Implying I want to do SR for the katana. I just want to do the content and if that drops It'll be nice. No, I'm not going to waste my money on mercenaries for this job(or any other for that matter).

Never once have I said I would pay people.

Tancho +1/NQ is a great combo for the solo-y stuff you want to do, Seha, if just for the spell interruption rate and high accuracy.

If you want low effort then Tancho +1 / Shigi is probably the best way to go.

Oh I know, which is part of why I'm a little puzzled at Azagarth harping on paying mercs so much. Idk, I guess the suggestion of paying people instead of playing the game for someone seeking advice just sort of irritates me.


That's probably a pretty good call, actually. And can make a Shigi for more DPS focus, or situations where you need a whole lot of acc (the recast delay is also handy for solos).

technically my advice was farm incursion with friends OR look at a time/cost ratio and see kanaria could probably be in had in less time than these UNMS, which when all said and done are inferior and will eventually want/need to be replaced by kanaria anyhow.

Why waste the time? also accolades=gil from other nms. In the time you would get tancho x2 for example, you easily could get 4 stacks of azrael eyes (not even the most expensive)on cor solo which is 2m. Add that to the sparks you will get 1mil off and BAM 2 kanaria if you are to lazy to farm incursion yourself, all done it is identical time as other UNM katanas.

I would never advocate using Tancho solo... There exists no situation I know of on my nin, and I am a veteran nin, that Tancho would be good on over higher grade katanas.

slower kills with tancho = more time for error in your solo. San and Ni you should never get hit on, san is insta cast and ni is not far behind insta nowadays. Normally if I am solo with my trusts august will be tanking anyhow or gessho. At that point your not using shadows often at all if any. Helpful tip solo: innin + shigi + -enm nijitsu = can dd all day and not pull hate off august :D

So far we looked at Nin magic dmg numbers but its reasonable to assume that Nin would have MAcc problems on higher Tier content. So lets try to be realistic and see how bad Nin really stands ith regard to MAcc.

We dont have exact numbers for MEva and stuff I guess so my best shot at figuring out whether Nin even has a chance is just comparing it to Blm.

So I did some number crunching to figure out how a top geared Nin compares to a well geared Blm. Just to make sure: Im NOT comparing Nin to a high end maxed out Blm as we all know that Nin wont stand a chance here. Its more about comparing Nin to a Blm that could like this stand a good chance in High-End content. Furthermore, Im looking for MB situations and not free nukes. So Ill use a Blm MB gear set as baseline.

For this Ill compare total MAcc, MAcc Skill, Int(*) and elemental/Ninjutsu skill.

Sources for this would be Base Stats, Gear, JP, Gifts, Mertis, Food and Gear.

I dont know base Int values so Ill ignore that for now. But yes, Blm gets a bit more here so thats a point pro Blm Im ignoring for now.
Furthermore, food can be used by both jobs so its a +/- 0 so Ill ignore that too.

Lets start with Nin:
- JPs: 20
- Gifts: 50
- Int: BGwiki states that Int has no effect on MAcc for Ninjutsu? Can some1 confirm this? Is that good or bad?
- MAcc Skill: 242 (RMEA) / 201 (Ochu) / 215 (Shigi)
- Skill: 417(A) + 16 (Merits) + 36 (Gifts) = 469
- Gear:
ItemSet 346122
This assumes herc augs Int+ >8, MAcc+ >25, maxed Ochus and Samnuha Coat. Cape is Int+20/MAcc+30/MDmg+20/MAB+10.

Total stat gain from gear is then: 157 Int, +20 Ninjutsu Skill, MAcc 161

Blm
- JPs: 20
- Gifts: 42 // yes Nin does have more \(^-^)/
- MAcc Skill: 228 (Lathi)
- Skill: 424(A+) + 16 (Merits) + 36 (Gifts) = 476
- Gear:
Dont have Blm geared so not experienced. I just took the MB HQ2 set from the guide here (but assumed NQ Abj. gear instead):
ItemSet 340467
This assumes Lathi Path C, same reisen augs as for herc above and Amalric path D for hands and A for others.

Total stat gain from gear is then: Int 190, Ele Skill + 13, MAcc 163

Comparing these two lists, the only "big" difference I see here is Int and whether or not this affects MAcc or not. Assuming it does and just for the sake of putting some numbers here lets assume 1 Int = 1 MAcc then we r looking at a difference of about 30 MAcc (prob a bit more with base stat).

So in general it looks to me like Nin is not in an as bad position as we thought. One additional MAcc buff should help with that offset. And we shouldnt forget that Nin, in contrast to Blm, does not have to worry about MP. Agreed, with the current length of many high lvl fights MP are rarely an issue but we should at least take this into account (e.g. remember the Ambu Gigas that would frequently drain all your MP). A further point is that Nin profits a lot more dmg wise from Int bonuses than Blm (more separate multipliers and low base dmg). So a Brd with Etudes could be a nice bonus.

With lower dInt Values, Black magic gains a huge boost from INT as their INT multiplier goes way up. Like Aero V has a M value of 5.2 while Ninjutsu is a constant 1.5 for San spells and 1 for Ni spells.

Well, there's also the ninjutsu skill bonus to consider. It basically doubles the dINT value for Ninjutsu. That said I don't think they will do anywhere near BLM level damage. They don't cost any MP though so that's something that can be considered.

Good point forgot about the M values. In any case. My post was less about dmg but rather about MAcc. Shouldnt ve brought that up. Was rather tryn to find out how we stand regarding MAcc. Did I miss anything important?

Good analysis. I know nin is lacking and I really dont see us taking a blm spot either, but it is nice to know that we can do dmg with nuke on basic stuff.

I also have a sneaky suspicion that innin adds macc too, Its not listed under the job points, only acc is. But SE has not listed stats for other jobs there (Drk for example gain 1 acc on endark, per point but its not listed). I just feel like I get a lot less resists with innin on. Could be placebo and its gona be hard as heck to test. However if that is the case, that would be +50 macc possibly (or 20 if just jp)... just crazy.

I am a 2100 blm too and you still struggle on resists on T3+ content on blm, so I know nin would also. The only saving grace nin "could" have is the fact that while they "might" be able to nuke decent dmg, they also will give -30 status resists which benefits the while group.

that macc gap is just very small at this point which is a good thing.

How did you calculate the Macc from gear?
It's pretty obvious in the secondary slots but for the Head/Body/Hands/Legs/Feet?
What sort of augments did you calculate?

Herculean has no built-in macc other than on feet. (and it's just +10)
Merlinic has Macc on 3 pieces over 5 (and it's higher values), plus the additional you can get from augments.
Amalric too has macc on 2 pieces over 5, good values, and there can be more from the fixed augment paths.
Did you remember to calculate all of those?

Mentioned in the post actually:
Reisen augs (for Nin and(!) Blm) assumed to be "decent" with Int >8 and MAcc >25. That sounded achievable. Lathi Path C and Amalric path D for hands and A for others. If I added up stuff together correctly all that should be included.

Its not "exact" numbers as especially Reisen augs can vary a lot but it gives a rough idea where we stand.

EDIT: Ah and forgot to mention Blm Cape has same augs as Nin cape above.

When looking at a blog post about Inundation for the RDM thread, I went to look at what else this user had, and they actually disagree with the official forums' comment about magic accuracy skill+. I remembered seeing this post recently, so thought I'd post about it here, although I don't really know that this is the right place to be posting it .-.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/luteff11/archives/48988131.html

He posts his gear, and shows that he has equal INT and macc between his two sets; the only difference is the magic accuracy skill. He is fully geared/skilled.

He tests against Apex Toads:

The first samples clearly illustrate that there is a large difference between +20 macc and +41 macc skill. The labels (red) from left-to-right are Hit, Half, Quarter, Full Resist, and Total.


Further testing at various intervals, in relation to "base" (the first entry seen here), including the three previous samples. He draws attention to the 1/2 rate when under 50% hit rate.

◆Conclusion
The difference between magic accuracy skill 228 and 269 cannot possibly be made up for with +20 magic accuracy.

◆Personal opinion
1 magic accuracy skill and 1 magic accuracy are about equal, perhaps explained in a similar way to combat skill's 0.9 accuracy ratio.


...

Perhaps whoever provided that information for the official forums was comparing magic accuracy skill under 50% to magic accuracy over 50%..?

If you get a 95% CI for the difference in proportions for the magic accuracy +60 and magic skill +41/magic accuracy +60 cases (.3416, .397), it suggests that magic accuracy skill from a weapon and accuracy aren't 1:1 (given capped skill + merits), which isn't too surprising.

The official forum post is confusing because it seems like it's converting magic accuracy skill to magic accuracy when the hit rate situation is below 50% (the magic accuracy figures are ~50% of the skill number).

Thanks Flippant for sharing.
Anybody has a link to the english official forum post about that Accuracy conversion thing?
I remember there being other errors (like attack not converting 1:1 and that is an error because I re-tested it, so it's possible there were other errors as well).

As I mentioend before I could only find Kincard's translation of the JP post, but I remember reading an official translation on the english forums which I couldn't find again.

When using daggers to exploit piercing weakness or to avoid slashing resistance, what are the preferred choices?

Ternion +1 and Arasy +1 look like the best options but I'm not sure if I am missing one.