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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
 Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 17:50:54
TP Bonus tho best is still nothing extraordinary for just about every WS I looked on DPS spreads with unless you're talking THF using Rudra's. Which job I do have and I do use yet THF nor Rudra's itself matters enough to me to care to pinpoint 1 item on said job negating my casting. No moonshade is NOT revolutionary for Blade Hi nor any other NIN ws. It's best yes but the 30~60? wsa pts it adds will not have me altering my instacast sets in any way shape or form whatsoever.
Far as refresh aug goes. I don't need such on my SCH which never runs out of mp let alone my RDM which I have to use convert once every 6mths on? There's plenty of refresh gear and buffs ingame as is. Again refresh aug itself is nothing revolutionary. You may think 15% quick cast ain't nothing special neither yet it works for me just fine.
While nothing ingame buff wise offers instacast, cept RDM's 10:00 recast /ja Spontaneity and SCH's 2~5 emp+2 set, both WSD and Refresh are easily modified from a slew of various pt buffs.
One last thing before I rest my case. If you're thinking some 2% fc earring or a fc set is capable of replacing and negating an instacast build. What is your recast timers on Utsusemi Ni/Ichi or Migawari? Is it up again yet? Fast Cast is not a substitute for Quick Cast unless both your casting and recast timers are nonexistent. fwyh No one agreed with me, so I am quoting myself. Rest my case twice.
Seems like you are trying really hard to justify a quickcast set. Are you trying to argue quickcast is better than fastcast or quickcast is better than tp bonus? Hint: You are failing at both fronts.
Let's see, insta-cast a fraction of the time on nukes (so I can go LOL I did back to back nukes), or extra damage 100% of the time on select WSs that will be used a lot.... hmmmm. Quickcast while useful, is not doing as much as you are eyeballing it to be. Its not like you are insta-casting 10 nukes back to back, nor are you doing it 100% of the time.
 Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 17:53:25
It's more like TP Bonus is not the only option.
Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 17:58:52
It's not the only option, its just the only option that makes sense. Unless you are thinking inside a mage bubble, in which case you are in the wrong forum.
Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 18:02:01
It's not the only option, its just the only option that makes sense. Unless you are thinking inside a mage bubble, in which case you are in the wrong forum. So if you're NIN you can't be mage or see the benefits of Quick Cast? Sounds logical.
Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 18:04:07
Use math and prove everyone wrong since you think you are being logical. What are these vast benefits of quickcast you keep claiming? That you insta-casted shadows one time out of 50? 75? 100? That you double casted Hojo, even tho you wish it would have proc'd on Migawari? Where does it change the game for NIN and make it do something that it hasn't already done for years with capped haste/fastcast?
Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 18:24:10
I guess NIN has always been an Instacast job apparently and since it's impossible for there to be a time where you might need to use Ichi or Migawari then clearly TP Bonus will have you doing things < 0.5% better ws dmg. If that. TP Bonus only makes sense to have on NIN ftw lol. Obviously. Done with the convo but surely < 0.5% wsd is slightly overrated. Use math and prove everyone wrong since you think you are being logical. What are these vast benefits of quickcast you keep claiming? That you insta-casted shadows one time out of 50? 75? 100? That you double casted Hojo, even tho you wish it would have proc'd on Migawari? Where does it change the game for NIN and make it do something that it hasn't already done for years with capped haste/fastcast? If you can't do the math quickly enough in your head 10% QC on NIN then idk what to say.
Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 18:40:42
You were supposed to be done when you rested your case on the last page, you came back just to not prove your point again. NIN was an evasion tank which then evolved into NIN/DRK, which could mitigate and take damage rather well. At no point was it ever played as some sort of mage job that required you to nuke the same elem spell repeatedly, let alone insta-cast. Nothing game changing was ever gained by wearing Occ. quickens spellcasting on NIN.
If you are losing shadows faster than capped recasts allows you then you are obviously doing something wrong (skillwise). If you can't live with Migawari not being up for an attack round or two then you are doing something seriously wrong (gearwise).
Long story short, your eyeballed value of "Occ. quickens spellcasting +3%" is extremely overrated and unproven until you provide data to support such an argument.
Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 18:51:32
You were supposed to be done when you rested your case on the last page, you came back just to not prove your point again. NIN was an evasion tank which then evolved into NIN/DRK, which could mitigate damage rather well. At no point was it ever played as some sort of mage job that required you to nuke the same elem spell repeatedly. Nothing game changing was ever gained by wearing Occ. quickens spellcasting on NIN.
If you are losing shadows faster than capped recasts allows you then you are obviously doing something wrong (skillwise). If you can't live with shadows not being up for an attack round or two then you are doing something seriously wrong (gearwise). Yes when ur soloing ep mobs I'm sure you do good with shadows. That 0.5% was a game breaker wasn't it. I'm happy I was shown the error of my ways. Surely nothing ingame could ever possibly require casting shadows with timers down. That's just obsurd thinking such challenges might exist in game. With TP Bonus, once I get rid of this lolAug, it'll make me just as DD as you one day with your Koga NIN. I can only pray the +0.5% shines down from the heavens.
Either way we've realized it's either (skillwise) or (gearwise). It's about time I upgraded to +0.5% wsd. Atleast I know now. Thank you very much.
Edit: The data you request is all on spreadsheets. If you wish to look into something to enlighten yourself. Be my guest. Enjoy.
Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 18:57:43
I've clearly seen the error of our ways. Your quickcast set is superior in every way considering we are still doing Abyssea these days and can stack it with atma. I'll have to try out quickcast on my Ageha's to see if it fires off any faster during EP Incursion.
Something that works some of the time is clearly better than something that works all the time. How could we have been so wrong all this time.
We all believe you. Copy. UMad? #sarcasm
Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 19:18:24
I've clearly seen the error of our ways. Your quickcast set is superior in every way considering we are still doing Abyssea these days and can stack it with atma. I'll have to try out quickcast on my Ageha's to see if it fires off any faster during EP Incursion.
Something that works some of the time is clearly better than something that works all the time. How could we have been so wrong all this time. I guess when you ignored the paragraph I posted, which had me reposting, everyone including yourself doesn't want to accept reality. That there are numerous countless buffs ingame to boost ur WSD. There are ZERO buffs ingame to boost Quick Cast. Which makes it that much more desirable if you cast spells wether NIN or mage. TP Bonus buff of +0.5% WSD won't exactly have you defeating me parse anytime soon NIN vs NIN. Yet when it comes to more serious battles I'm quite certain survivability becomes that much more important than some 0.5% wsd boost but ya'll just keep spinning the convo around in a million different directions until I submit to your will and accept the greatness of such a superior aug that you yourself have hand chosen. You alrdy won if ya didn't accept my sarcasm then tsk tsk atleast you understood. Just copy. ok.
considering we are still doing Abyssea these days and can stack it with atma. I believe you.
We all believe you. Copy. UMad? #sarcasm When you leave Abyssea let me know how that TP bonus is working for ya Koga NIN.....
Bismarck.Phaded
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Phaded 2015-01-06 19:58:39
NIN's survivability has never depended on quickcast. No matter how many ways you spin the same wall of text, you still haven't made much of a point. However, I am glad you understand the majority know what they are talking about.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Fenrir.Theoryofthought 2015-01-06 19:59:34
DONT NUN YALL WANT THESE PROBLEMS !
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Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 20:59:28
NIN's survivability has never depended on quickcast. No matter how many ways you spin the same wall of text, you still haven't made much of a point. However, I am glad you understand the majority know what they are talking about. That's why we don't stack FC on our utsusemi trying to make it 'almost' instacast reducing /recast timers to 'almost' 0:00 if we could. So obviously Quick Cast would never be any good on NIN whatsoever. In the end that 0.5% boost to my WSD has made me a NIN gawd. Anything other than what the masses suggests is irrelevant. Just copy. ok.
considering we are still doing Abyssea these days I still believe in you. Copy. ok?
 Quetzalcoatl.Langly
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2015-01-06 21:10:09
You really need to stop using that .5% or 20-30 number, because everyone here including you knows that it's ***.
It's great that you have a different opinion on usage. I get that. I would like to think I welcome input. But stick to the argument you can hold. You think quick casting is a better use of an ear slot than TP Bonus. I get it, but I don't agree with it. Every single one of us will then tell you you're not giving TP Bonus enough credit. And that's factual, you aren't.
You're throwing around these tiny tiny numbers and that's not an accurate reflection of what the earring does. So don't play coy to try to make your point. If anything, and this goes for anyone, make an argument with real numbers to prove your point. Please.
Quote: TP Bonus affect to Blade Hi, Jin >> ups crit rate. This can be quantified. And it's better than your 20-30 dmg you think it adds.
TP Bonus affect to Blade: Shun >> attack bonus, again can be very beneficial depending on targets.
TP Bonus affect to Blade: Ten >> drastically improves fTP modifier, something that's, wait for it, multiplied in the damage equation. Again, greater than the 0.5% to a WS you're quoting.
TP Bonus to Blade Metsu >> kill me now... ***.
I'm sticking it to you to provide some concrete reasoning backed by factual in game numbers. Even though what I did above was pretty generic. If you really can't do it, I can try to find some time to help.
Bismarck.Snprphnx
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2707
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2015-01-06 21:18:03
The Occ Quickcast can increase overal DPS as well. Since Sange goes by how many shadows are up, keeping them up fulltime while using Sange is vital.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2255
By Odin.Llewelyn 2015-01-06 21:22:01
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »The Occ Quickcast can increase overal DPS as well. Since Sange goes by how many shadows are up, keeping them up fulltime while using Sange is vital. Huh? Pretty sure Sange is just 100% Daken for duration regardless of shadows.
Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 21:23:12
I'll get exact numbers soon >< doin avatars atm
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »The Occ Quickcast can increase overal DPS as well. Since Sange goes by how many shadows are up, keeping them up fulltime while using Sange is vital. Huh? Pretty sure Sange is just 100% Daken for duration regardless of shadows. he means mikage
By Chyula 2015-01-06 21:44:08
Just use a god damn bot and everything will be perfect for max potential dps output. Hell why bother play the game when you wake up and the bot will get everything for you.
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Sylph.Oraen
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2087
By Sylph.Oraen 2015-01-06 21:57:20
When Chyula is on your side, you know you dun goofed.
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Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-06 22:42:14
Using Motenten's pre-update ws DPS spreads
— Tojil > rcb and -15% def down, chaos roll 56%
Blade:Hi
Altdorf+Wilhelm earrings = wsa - 3918
TP Bonus+4agi earrings = wsa - 3951
So based on pre-update spreadsheet that's +33 pts towards wsa and knowing the update did not give NIN rudra's numbers it's pretty close to same atleast for Hi.
I understand YES tp bonus is BEST item in ear slot BUT it's definitely not by alot and not enough for me as a mage heavy player to justify something so trivial when 10% quick cast on NIN and 15% on my mage jobs works just as well if not better for atleast myself personally. I understand why ppl went w/ TP bonus being melee heavy jobs but it's not killing me w/o it for DPS whatsoever at all.
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »You're throwing around these tiny tiny numbers and that's not an accurate reflection of what the earring does. So don't play coy to try to make your point. If anything, and this goes for anyone, make an argument with real numbers to prove your point. Please. I believe I claimed 30~60pts added to wsa so eventho I was bashing it I still overestimated it. The 0.5% I said repeatedly was just a guesstimation cuz i knew for sure it was definitely < 1%. wsd bonus.
Edit: TP Bonus is a .08% to .10% bonus to wsd which turns into a Negative with max buffs/debuffs falling below AGI+4 in same slot. It's not best for Kamu and atm, until we know Shun's new mod, it's not best for Shun neither.
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10131
By Asura.Sechs 2015-01-07 01:42:03
What's happening here? Arguing for the sake of arguing? Or what?
One thing is saying: I personally like this option better because X or Y or even no reason at all it's my own *** business
I find this absolutely legit. As a matter of fact I've been keeping Moonshade with lame augments until no longer than 2 months ago because of lazyness and other reasons.
But I was always aware of picking an inferior choice, I never dreamt of going around saying:
Meh, that option is nothing great, my choice is the same, actually it can be even better
That's a whole lot different story, you can argue that black is white all you want but this doesn't change reality at all, does it?
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Quetzalcoatl.Langly
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2015-01-07 09:01:39
By stating his opinion he discredited the value of a TP Bonus moonshade which I called him on. I'm perfectly fine with a different opinion.
And if we all just left it at that, then that would have been fine.
Siren.Chinzu
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Siren.Chinzu 2015-01-07 10:31:38
We all should put movement speed on are moonshade.
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Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-07 14:23:08
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »By stating his opinion he discredited the value of a TP Bonus moonshade which I called him on. I'm perfectly fine with a different opinion.
And if we all just left it at that, then that would have been fine. It's not opinion when it's based off facts. Which is fact TP bonus will give you < 1% boost to wsd. I can accept whoever's choice of picking TP bonus over Quick Cast. It's those who have TP bonus that cannot and will not accept just how trivial the upgrade is for NIN itself. I gave substantial and solid reasons for picking a different aug over such. Which at the end of the day TP bonus does not win parse. Mythics do unless you're a THF which can out parse mythics w/o actually having Vajra themselves. Which is not an opinion.
Quetzalcoatl.Langly
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2015-01-07 14:28:45
Quetzalcoatl.Langly said: »By stating his opinion he discredited the value of a TP Bonus moonshade which I called him on. I'm perfectly fine with a different opinion.
And if we all just left it at that, then that would have been fine. It's not opinion when it's based off facts. Which is fact TP bonus will give you < 1% boost to wsd. I can accept whoever's choice of picking TP bonus over Quick Cast. It's those who have TP bonus that cannot and will not accept just how trivial the upgrade is for NIN itself. I gave substantial and solid reasons for picking a different aug over such. Which at the end of the day TP bonus does not win parse. Mythics do unless you're a THF who can out parse mythics w/o actually having Vajra. Which is not an opinion.
k
 Lakshmi.Lenus
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 517
By Lakshmi.Lenus 2015-01-07 14:49:39
I'd take 1% boost 100% of the time than QC 3% of the time. all day erreday
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10131
By Asura.Sechs 2015-01-07 14:50:24
It's not opinion when it's based off facts. "Facts" /airquotes
Dunno what to say, we all have outbursts of ego and we all say crap from time to time, nobody is perfect.
You got offered multiple times the chance to reiterate what you said, to bite off your pride and say "Yeah sorry, just my personal preference" or whatever else.
Instead you're keeping the route of "No I'm perfect, I'm never wrong, you guys are the ones wrong and here (where?) are the fact proving it!"
What can we say now? Have fun enjoying looking at yourself in the mirror while you flex, I guess.
I'm out of pointless discussion with people who do not want to to discuss but only want to give outbursts to their own pride and ego.
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10131
By Asura.Sechs 2015-01-07 14:51:56
I'd take 1% boost 100% of the time than QC 3% of the time. all day erreday Quickmagic is awesome but it's basically something you aim for once you've capped FastCast.
Sacrificing fastcast for quickmagic is not particularly wise in the majority of situations.
Like you said, it's a small buff that activates 100% of the times, vs an awesome buff that activates 2% of the times.
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Siren.Akson
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2015-01-07 15:20:19
It's not opinion when it's based off facts. "Facts" /airquotes
Dunno what to say, we all have outbursts of ego and we all say crap from time to time, nobody is perfect.
You got offered multiple times the chance to reiterate what you said, to bite off your pride and say "Yeah sorry, just my personal preference" or whatever else.
Instead you're keeping the route of "No I'm perfect, I'm never wrong, you guys are the ones wrong and here (where?) are the fact proving it!"
What can we say now? Have fun enjoying looking at yourself in the mirror while you flex, I guess.
I'm out of pointless discussion with people who do not want to to discuss but only want to give outbursts to their own pride and ego. Yeah um ok
If you're using Moonshade to get Quick Magic on Ninja you're doing it wrong :P My ego is > yours by < 1% wsd
Yeah quick on Moonshade though works for both ninjutsu and mage jobs so picked that over TP Bonus. I just can't accept freedom of choice when TP bonus is so OP.
I'd take 1% boost 100% of the time than QC 3% of the time. all day erreday I have no issues with that whatsoever.
Bismarck.Gippali
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 590
By Bismarck.Gippali 2015-01-07 18:23:11
Hey it's cool man. You do you. The rest of us will be the mindless sheep ws gawds that you like to describe us as.
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