The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

In the recent dev survey, they did ask about interest in job adjustments. I would agree with everyone saying those would most likely be more basic changes.

1) I honestly wouldn't mind some tools to give NIN the ability to be a more effective low TP feed DD (which fits with NIN being one of the jobs that gets Subtle Blow trait). For example:
- Myoshu: Ni gives Subtle Blow II
- Yurin: Ni adds a better inhibit TP effect, on par with MNK's Penance
- And maybe a new Ninjutsu to remove some mob TP (something like Mewing Lullaby, TP Drainkiss, the BLU spells...)

2) Not that I think it would happen, but I'd adjust Innin/Yonin as:
- Eliminate the silly decay over time effect
- Innin gives an effect like DRG's WS Damage Boost trait. Or if that's too much, maybe add some TP Bonus or some other valuable offensive stats.
- Yonin (this one I really wouldn't expect) allows Utsusemi to absorb AoEs without stripping all shadows, maybe make it take 2-3 shadows instead. But it feels like they've been scared of making Utsusemi too strong since all the way back in the Aht Urghan days when players ended up tanking more effectively with shadows than the devs intended.
-- Alternately, maybe give Yonin the Yagyu Darkblade treatment and let you give shadows to others? But only available in that stance, whereas Yagyu could still have a superior niche by being able to give shadows while also taking advantage of Innin.
-- Or if you want a more boring approach, maybe just add something like DT- II on Yonin.

3) Futae becoming a nuking "stance" instead of a one time ability is also one I've wanted for ages. Don't have to make it too crazy. Maybe just give it some additional Macc/MAB and Burst damage+, and if they want to add some downside it wouldn't be too unreasonable to give a penalty to atk or something (which also helps to temper the "free" buff to already strong hybrid WS)

I actually don't think a major across the board increase in katana or WS strength is needed. Hybrids are already quite strong (and viable in much of the current endgame), Ten isn't bad, we have a pretty good array of SC options. But sure, maybe give a few of the somewhat underpowered physical WS a bit of a buff, like increasing the fTP on Blade: Hi, Shun, and Kamu. If they aren't gonna nerf Savage Blade, I feel like other weapon types should get some buffs to put them more on par with Naegling, so we don't get the perverse result of jobs like NIN BST DRG or whatever being pushed to use an Ambu sword over their REMA options.

On the Yagyu Darkblade: it's a niche tool, but that's not quite the point. It has a totally unique mechanic that does have some practical use, and locking that ability behind a tiny chance of winning the lottery is just obnoxious. Maybe one day they'll give us hoops to jump through to be able to acquire the Bonanza weapons via an alternate grindy method.

What are you talking about here?

Physical damage?
Hybrid damage?
Or your comment was considering both?

In my opinion if you consider Hybrids NIN's damage is not just decent but it's excellent. The problem is more that... you can't really use it in a lot of content, and NIN has access to "only" 3 elements (and something makes me feel it should have been at least 4).

Physical damage is... okaysh? It's not too bad. But for a JOB that atm alas doesn't bring anything special, it should be *SLIGHTLY* higher.
Just the fact that you have to rely on another weapon type (Naegling) is pretty sad, if you ask me.
I wish Katana as a physical damage was just a bit better than Naegling damage. I'd be happy with just that and not having to rely on Naegling, honestly.

I'm actually convinced Blade: Ei was supposed to function like the hybrids, but is instead was just treated as a dark magical WS as... a mistake?

Seems like that would fit with an intent of making NIN SAM the hybrid WS masters, and giving SAM the light-aligned elements: Koki (light), Jinpu (wind), Kagero (fire), and Goten (lightning), and NIN the dark-aligned ones with Chi/To/Teki/Ei. Only other hybrids are fire (archery, marksmanship, Ifrit blood pact), so that breakdown of specialists would make so much logical sense.

Not sure I agree that you can't use hybrids in a lot of current relevant content. They work well in segment farming, Dynamis, Omen, CP/Exemplar points, some Ambus, probably Besieged as they keep raising the level. Even Sortie (in non-meta setups) they aren't necessarily bad. That's a significant chunk of the current endgame activity, and I don't think they necessarily have to be viable for EVERYTHING.

I was think the same EXACT thing Capu, makes no sense really, it's an oversight but it's so far away in the past they obviously lost track of it.

Again, the issue is that NIN is a DD that brings almost zero utility to a party setting. The damage is "fine" I guess but every other DD brings something to the party and NIN just doesn't. You can open with Ageha by using a sub-optimal weapon type...yay?

It needs buffing or debuffing capability to be useful in the current era (or even the most recent previous eras) of FFXI full stop. Whether that is new spells like the Dia Ninjutsu being discussed here, or modifications to the debuffs that nin ninflict being given Rayke-esque elements to make them powerful in magic dmg parties, or stance changes/party member target-able enhancing ninjutsu, or some combination of these things. Until then it's gonna stay where it is. Ship has sailed on tanking/making shadows viable, imo. So no point in even theorizing about how to "make shadows great again". PLD and RUN are too far ahead in that domain for anything short of an insane shadow overhaul to ever catch them and even then it won't be enough.

Edit: just to be clear, I want NIN to work pretty badly. Love the job and always have, but the shortcomings are obvious and too much to ignore. You can hybrid WS for 99k in ML parties and segments...yippie.

Well, arguably what NIN was intended to bring to the party as its niche was safety and better damage mitigation than other DDs, allowing for a lighter healing load or improving the ability to deal with dangerous mechanics. As we all know, the problem is that this just isn't as important of a role any more, even though it was once very strong. And especially with AoE shadow-wiping moves being so prevalent now, they've kind of neutered this type of role and now really need to find a new identity.

That's why my mind went to leaning into Subtle Blow, and maybe creating another DD that's more on par with MNK in that respect. And still has some differentiation between damage type (blunt versus slashing), and a bit more of defensive leaning versus MNK's more offensive focus (for instance, maybe Migawari still saves you from a dangerous move that slips through but could be more deadly to a MNK, whereas MNK kills faster).


I feel like that's a little dismissive. Hybrids are pretty viable for MOST current endgame content.
- Segment farming is a thing that people do spend a lot of time on.
- Dyna Divergence and Omen - while it's not the highest end content, I still view these as relevant events.
- CP/ML - people may dismiss that because so many just bot/merc points, but this IS something that counts as relevant 2024 endgame content and NIN is quite effective at it for people actually playing it manually. Not saying it isn't the case that a large part of the ML apathy and automation/merc culture wasn't directly caused BY the development decision to make the amount of Exemplar Points so oppressively grindy, but point stands that it's some of the content we can reasonably call current endgame activity.
- Besieged - I see no reason further increases in monster level will change that NIN is fine here, and hybrids should continue to work.
- Sortie? Maybe a more questionable one as it's not in meta setups for optimal Prime grinding, but there are more people out there just doing Sortie more casually or to upgrade Empyrean armor than I think this board sometimes recognizes. In a non-optimal or lowman setup, NIN is fine for Sortie farming and hybrids work on a lot of the targets in there.
- Any lower end content that people might still do

And while not necessarily specific to hybrid WS, NIN is frequently a useful job in Ambuscade; past couple months were good examples. Not really a concern if monthly rotation means some months are better than others for every job, which is what tends to be the case.

So what's really left of current endgame where hybrids DON'T work and NIN isn't a good fit?
- Sortie bosses/optimal Prime farming runs
- Many Ody/Gaol NMs - but that's not really unique to Ninja, as the fights are so specific and on any given fight there will be many jobs that aren't great for it
- Some of the harder Geas Fete NMs - but again, not necessarily a NIN-specific issue, and NIN does work on some of these


EDIT: Oh, and I didn't even think of Master Trials but those are whatever. And NIN gets used in some of them like the Beastmen one? Not really sure about some of the others, because don't personally care. And HTBFs are HTBFs - I don't see NIN as especially stronger or weaker than other jobs for most of these, it's fine in a lot of them.

It's all good, and I didn't mean to take it that way. I'm sorry man.


Back to the weapons, it seems like such a waste not to make these weapons in general obtainable. They could even tie it to Magian Trials/Kupofried lore and make it extra grindy (which seems to be a trend at this stage of the game.

Even if it took like 2000 deeds or something for a voucher it would be something lol.

I don't really have any further hope for adjustments or drastically new content. We are kind of stuck with what we have.

I was making a general statement, so I suppose all of the above. Blade: Ten is very strong... In fact, without doing math if you gave it the 15% damage boost and attack+/buff Naegling gets, I would dare say it out performs Savage Blade, or very least is equal to. Katana isn't the issue. Naegling is just a gross oversight in weapon development. Virtually any job that can use it, up until primes released and even those are on par or subpar STILL compared to Naegling savage blade for raw physical damage output on nearly any job that can use it. It's like saying DRG needs a buff to polearm damage output because its strongest physical spam ws (pre Diarmud or however it's spelled) was Savage Blade lol. The issue is the weapon, not the job.

So yes, the jobs damage output is decent, I don't see anything wrong with its capability in that regard. What I see wrong is aside from being a DD is when I ask myself... why would I bring a NIN over something else.

You said it yourself... for a job that doesn't really bring anything special to the table, it should be slightly higher. But even if it was slightly higher... that's not an actual reason to bring the job along over another DD.

Now hypothetically speaking, NIN has access to the RDM equivalents of enfeebles and we start saying hell yeah bring along your NIN, give me that sweet Dia 3, Silence, Paralyze II, Distract II etc... as well as some pretty decent damage contribution/skillchain/bursts etc. It becomes a very viable flex spot for party compositions that would normally bring RDM and nothing else.

These are all fair and really good points. Hybrids are extremely strong when applicable.

I am so deep in the prime grind that I kind of view things through that framework, and NIN in a 9boss run is just.....yea...

That being said I may be making stage 4 katana at the end of this week, against my better judgment lulllll

Sometimes I wish I could motivate myself to make a Prime and get katana too, despite it seeming kind of ehhhhhhhhhh XD

But nah, I can't commit to that level of grind with a static these days, so I guess I'll be one of the people who does enough Sortie to upgrade Empy stuff I care about, and not let myself get sucked into that particular vortex lol. I'm strangely excited for you and anyone else who makes the thing though!

I happen to agree here. Also, are we absolutely certain that Hybrid WS don't work on more things in Sortie and we simply haven't tested it yet? B/F takes Earth/Ice damage better based on hands mode. I'm not saying it would be superb, but NIN gets both elements with :Chi/:To. I suppose it might work with the right storms/bubbles. A/E :Chi should definitely work for. Aita might be better suited for SAM, though you have :Chi/:Yu to proc stone/water, so there's some utility there (idk about the damage it would deal and requires paying attention). C/G takes decent fire/light damage from Kagero and Koki, but NIN would have to swap to a GKT (translation: gross) to hit those elements. Not exactly ideal.

I've done very good damage on A/E using Chi with threnody + frazzle + malaise. I can't speak to BF/DH/CG on hybrids for Ninja, but when my group used x2 DDs and no PLD/kiting our SAM would absolutely tear bosses apart but that is common knowledge.

Yeah, and storms. Seen SAM Jinpu/Kagero rip through stuff, but I didn't see anyone check if all the elements are resisted. I mean, just looking at the bosses and their resistances, they all take at least partial (70%) damage from certain elements. There would be some log watching going on, so you can't just spam something (on Gartell or Aita, for example), but they may work.

For instance, the elemental resistance for Skomora for Light is the same as the Ice/Earth on Gartell, and the same as Aita is based on his last TP move. Skomora takes slightly less fire damage (60%), but I've seen it take capped damage from Kagero. And Ghatjot takes 85% earth, which is even higher than the other boss's elements.

I'm not brave enough to convince a group to let me try (in case it doesn't work), one of you should take one for the team and report back =P (with all the appropriate buffs, of course)

If I indeed pull the trigger on stage4 katana I may have to bribe my group to burn a ruspix plate on a NIN run....for science!