The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Once I unlock Ygnas I’m def ditching Apururu for Sylvie cuz it’s incredibly frustrating at times Trusts refusal to overwrite Haste1.

Sylvie also casts haste 1

and only gives indi-haste to main NIN

And Ygnas casts Haste 1

Whether you knew any of those facts or not

Then Sylvie caps M.Haste for NIN solo by herself. Was hoping such was the case. Good to know.

When using nin on your ody C runs, what offhand are you using? I havent been getting the numbers I would expect out of nin. I am normally using heishiR15/kuni but not seeing very good numbers. I am using the chart posted about 15 pages back to match hybrid. I would have to assume its something to do with buffs or my offhand? Not seeing much better than 30k~ an occasional spike into the 50s. Feels like I might do better just savage spamming?

r20 kunimitsu. you can hold tp to like 1750 if you want more consistency; Chi is not a magic button though. It resist occasionally. If the monster is single bat, triple bats, tigers, couerls, imps, birds, raptors, qutrub, or karakuls, then you should be using Chi to end it's existence. Those are the monsters I have personally observed have the least resistance to Chi and I deal the highest numbers to (might be missing a few families). You can also use it on any other non (magical) resisting monster on C1, since those are so weak (Skeletons or Fish/Crabs, for example). In fact, if the monsters outright resist slashing (but not magic), I prefer using Chi on it. Anything else, you can Savage/Ten for more consistency. Especially on C3/4, you won't get the kind of numbers with Chi you are probably expecting, unless it's a monster from the first group I mentioned. And if it takes you 2 WS to kill the monster, it doesn't really benefit you to use Chi in that instance anyways. SB is far more damage and could one shot from 85% or so.

If you want to be consistently efficient with your WS damage, SB works fine, but IMO it kind of defeats the purpose of coming NIN altogether. If it's for EP or fun, sure. If it's just to spam SB, I feel like most jobs can match NIN's production in that area, so it kind of loses a bit of luster.

I found that list didn't reflect my testing either, so it makes me wonder if there is a buff or debuf being applied that changed the results that I wasn't using. I save TP to about 1750 before using a WS.

The list Buukki posted is much closer, although I'd add Puks to the Chi list. I've found To works much better for me with Vultures, also.

I only really get exceptional (80k+) damage on Qutrubs, Birds, and Bats. The rest of the list, I expect around 50-60k. I've only hit capped against Qutrubs and I think bats. I've had very poor luck using hybrids against any of the NMs and halo/agons.

My Nyame Path B is r15 though. I haven't RPd Kuni yet.

Puks, that's the other group you can destroy. But Imps, for some reason, seem especially weak to Chi. Even on C4, things get completely one shot.

I think I use To for like Manticores, Scorpions, Marids? Idk, they are kind of all over the place. I feel like if I do 1-2 hybrids and they seem low, I just swap to SB so I'm not wasting time testing which WS is best.

yea, To seems to do well against crawlers, manticores, scorpions, and marids. I find it'll outdo SB on crabs also, but it is <20k for me.

Teki seems to do ok on manticores and raptors, at least according to my list (see caveat below)

For both of these categories, it might outdo SB by 20% or so, but it's not the double you'll see with Chi against squishy mobs.

I have been keeping a list, but the results are so inconsistent that I stopped maintaining it. I'd put something on the list and come back the next day, only to have a different WS do better. I need to go in and have a focused effort to test what works best against what without a lot of interference from other melees.

It's subject to resists, so the damage is going to vary. SCH or WHM can give you storms to help, can eat Rolanberry for some other macc. But SB is always going to be a much more consistent (threwupinmymouth.img) WS for damage in segs overall, unless you get lucky groups to exploit. So what you said about it doing wild damage can be true. I switch between Heishi, Naegling, and Kikoku for different needs, and have all but abandoned Tauret Evisceration.

Honestly, past C2, you probably get better mileage out of Naegling vs depending on Chi and resists. Hybrid also doesn't work on any of the Agon monsters either, afaik. If it's not one of those squishy groups, it's just easier to use Naegling/Hitaki most of the time and push out the 45k+ consistent ws damage, and then if you see something squishy, swap back to Heishi, vs the other way around. But I like to feel like a Ninja, so I usually start out trying to Hybrid as much as I can until I hit a wall.

You might simply not be attack capped?

I do get resisted, but not a ton, then again I'm pretty selective about what I use hybrids on. My group isn't really bent on parse results, but I do keep an eye on it myself and like to try and keep up. I did spend a good number of runs trying different combinations, but concluded now I'm just going to SB unless I am almost certain that the hybrid will do equal or greater. Basically, the list above.

I've hit good Chi numbers all the way up to the last floor, but it's isolated to specific mobs. Similarly, past floor 2 or so, I basically stick with SB even for a few on that list. It does make me sick though and I try to use NIN where I can (e.g. debuffs, using shadows, hybrids). It'd be better if Ten could keep up with SB.

I think a lot of my value to my party, which generally runs without a tank, is the ability to break off, take 2-3 mobs at once, kill them, and require no additional support outside of standard buffs. There is also a bit more tolerance to death since I can erase weakness with mijin.

If we have a tank, my DPS goes up, but my utility to the party goes down since overall damage will increase for the heavy jobs, also. Sadly, most folks are more interested in raw damage than they are anything else, which I can't argue with, and NIN being so contextual is just not desirable. It's wild how I can out parse some heavy DDs sometimes and others be lagging behind.

I think Ruau's original list really set folks off on this subject, which I give him a lot of credit for and think is awesome, but I also think it has been a bit misunderstood by folks who want to play the job and think that they are going to go hit massive damage against mobs on that list. I've found I'm always above the support classes with DD (BRD, COR), when compared to other raw DDs (WAR, SAM, DRK, etc), I'm sometimes able to keep pace and maybe even out parse them, others I'm in between. It's based on the mobs we roll and I think that still puts us at a disadvantage, but the original chart (unless I have missed something) in my experience is misunderstood.

Parse damage is the most unreliable add-on especially in Seg Farming. Ninja exacerbates this even further than any other job. I honestly don't even look at the parse for it because it's literally 75% fake damage. I just use the Ivan Drago approach: if it dies, it dies.

Really only useful for checking acc, averages, etc.

Also:

Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

6m++ DPS!

Oh look, I did 50K damage to a monster with 7K remaining HP!

Exactly. Artificial DPS. Only thing that matters is your segments and Gil at the end. Rest is subjective.

Does the extra attack, WSD and DA put Nyame B over Relic +3 mask for Hybrid WS at R25?

Please don't quote me on this, but I would think that hybrid WS "double dipping" mechanic on WSD should heavily favor Nyame over Relic, even with the 31 matk bonus.

Edit: Hybrids don't really double dip, but the increased physical damage gives the magic damage a boost, so that's sort of what it is.

NIN Katana Hybrid WS Calculator Rank 25 Nyame Preview

Looks like they are almost even for Chi Relic+3 is slightly ahead for Chi. Nyame slightly pulls ahead for Teki and To tho.

EDIT: Ups, I forgot to change WSD from R30 to R25.
In general they are super close, which means use Nyame, because it has higher macc, skillchain bonus and defensive value. Keep in mind that Relic will be much better if you have merited Innin, you are using it and you are hitting those hybrids from behind.

Thanks. I figured by R30 it would be solidly ahead, but couldn't tell just by eyeballing how much it compared at R25

Read my edit :)

Personally I merited both Macc and Mab to further increase the boons of Relic feet and make em hella good for that purpose.
I wouldn't say it's the best Group2 option though, not at all, and not what I'd suggest to any other fellow NIN.

After years of using SANGE I grew annoyed at the JA and now I'm terribly biased against it, but it still stands as our only DPS cooldown.

Innin too is nice and synergizes well with Relic head if you use it. I just hate how the positional requirement for Innin are extremely narrow and hardly useable for the content I use NIN for. Other than that it would be pretty good.

NTE is... well, pretty anachronistic these days. And Yonin is cool but doesn't really create a drastic change sadly.

If I remember correctly, 5/5 Magic Attack merits combined with the relic +3 feet boosts your ninjutsu nuking damage by an additional +25%.

I use 5/5 magic attack merits for Kei solo since the bonus damage allows my magic bursts to deal 2%~3% damage to Kei and push Dancing Fullers safely. Without it, Ninja weapon skill animation lock would prevent me from being able to move to dodge Fullers and I'd be relying on trusts to keep me at 100% HP to survive the incoming 2500 damage.

TBH with ML20 now it should be super easy to make a set well above 3k HP for Fullers to be not a problem at all. That being said I think mab merits are great.

One thing that I can't stand is how good Nyame C is for bursts on NIN. body+legs+hands at R25 is like 60% higher damage than next best thing (which is base Nyame...) That is *** sad, because Nyame B is just too good to make C ;_;

This is an interesting idea that I haven't considered, but off the top of my head, I don't think there is a good >3000 HP TP set with Ranged Accuracy for Daken and Magic Evasion for Wind Spikes. If you get slowed by Wind Spikes at a bad time, then Kei can easily recover 3%~5% HP before you can skillchain him again and drop his regen. If he stays in wind mode for a large portion of the fight, then you may time out due to low magic evasion causing frequent slows.

Additionally, having a TP set with well over 3000 HP isn't useful if your WS sets drop you ~2700. It would trigger a potentially expensive cure from your trusts for every weapon skill you use unless you also built HP-based WS sets, which would increase the fight duration by a significant amount.

For reference, I'm at ML19 with 2385+40(Sublime Sushi) max HP in the two TP sets I use on Kei. My weapon skill sets put me at about 2400~2700 HP since they tend to use Mpaca or Nyame. I'd like to try an HP-based TP+WS Kei fight. Nuking to push Fullers is still very annoying and can lead to wasted time if you get resisted and have to wait for him to heal for another try. I tend to have 15~25 minutes remaining with my current strategy, but if I can simply ignore Fullers then I could potentially save a few minutes.

Edit: I should mention that Yonin 5/5 is +250 HP, but I'm a huge fan of Sange. 1/5 Sange is probably good enough, so 4/5 Yonin for +200 HP can be useful if needed.

Why would you assume you would spend whole time in this set? Just use it close to thresholds (75%,50%,25%,10%) and use whatever for the rest of the fight. The simplest solution would be to keep 5/5 Nyame B, Regal Ring, GelatinousR15, Tuisto, OdnowaR15, for both TP and WS when you are about to force Fullers. Also for sure use Yonin merits for this fight.

Sange is meh. Daken is at 79% rate anyway. Other merits are imo too good for Sange to have place, but that's just me XD

Because I wasn't thinking...

Yeah this is a good idea. I'll try it later. Been on the Kin grind recently, though.

I still tend to go 5/5 Kendatsuba +1 for offense/Meva. Similar to Mpaca, but better TA, crit rate, Racc, subtle bow. You do lose Mpaca's atk, but that doesn't outweigh the offensive advantages of Ken+1 even when uncapped atk. I don't give quite as much value to Mpaca's PDT- on NIN because shadows usually do a good job of mitigating physical damage. I do use heavy Mpaca sets as my defaults on MNK SAM though (4/5, even 5/5 on MNK with Impetus down and not using Empy body) for something like Ody where mobs hit hard with mostly physical damage - cause those jobs don't have Utsu:San.

If I care more about defense (tanking, frequent AoE damage, moves that bypass shadows, predictable dangerous moves, hard to maintain shadows for whatever reason), then I'll swap to Malignance for a little bit of a hit to DPS (though still plenty good) and way more safety. Also use Malignance for Nagi AM3 up, but that's obviously more niche.

I really don't give too much value to glass cannon TP sets any more, but stuff like Adhemar +1 head/hands, Samnuha tights are still very good for all out DPS.


Well, at the very least it seems highly possible that Empy +2/+3 hands may become the clear best NIN nuking piece in that slot. Prob not worth wasting a Nyame augment for path C hands on NIN until we know that for sure in the coming months, even if it's really good right now.


Fk Sange, I'm still salty over throwing a Happo+1 back when that was elite tier... (but yeah, now that the other merits are more compelling and Daken rate is so high anyway, it feels like much less of a loss)

We all collectively agree