The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

even kirin could be melee burned. we 2hr melee burned kirin whenever we killed it. certainly beat RNG and BLM killing it while kiting. it was a 30 sec fight tops. this was also well before the level cap increase, and we had a plethora of relic weapons. maybe we just played a completely different game at 75 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I love how y'all are just rewriting history to make the point that Ninja needs a buff. You don't need to go that far though. ninja is in a much better position than it's ever been. An upgrade would be welcome but it's probably no longer as necessary at this point in time than it was in the past. But I digress.

The real issue (stemming from the Yagyu discussion) is when the Devs say they are just making a line of weapons as a "bonus" and then slap on amazing tanking characteristics that is not merely a "bonus". It completely changes the game for ninja tanking. That's a far cry from where they said they wanted these weapons to be. And that vastly changes how Ninja tanking used to be viewed in the past vs now.

What was NIN/DRK tank effectively used on back then?
I only remember it on Bahamuth 18men BC and Tiamat, both requiring specific sets with Fire Resist or something?

I remember back then we used a lot of PLD/NIN, PLD/RDM and for a short while RDM/NIN which was, wow... but then got nerfed.

I'm talking about the old 75 days, up to TLOU and before WotLG of course.

Ehh this was very LATE in the "75 era". Again, stop rewriting history, this never happened within the first few waves of sky. All 75 era moments are not equal.

nobody is saying this started in the first few waves of sky. you can't on one hand state that not all 75 era moments were equal, while also telling me exactly when my experience took place. I'm not rewriting history. simply sharing my experience.

That's like calling white mage the worst job in the game because you couldn't kill stuff with it. There nothing wrong with being there "just" for utsusemi if that gets the job done.

Also, NIN could DD just fine. It wasn't up there with better DD jobs, but it had passable damage and could tank and solo excellently. Calling it the worst job at 75 cap (especially early 75 cap) is blatantly wrong.

NIN was so good in the very early 75 days that it's probably the reason why SE is so scared of buffing NIN sometimes. That tells something about the fact that it was in a very good position.

I'm with Geriond on this.
It's not just about the pure DPS but how desirable/effective a JOB is. DPS can be one of the aspects that make a JOB desirable but it's not the ony one.

It was impossible to play NIN in EGLS Events back then when you had Mage jobs & especially BLM leveled & geared. There were far less ppl w/ all Jobs Lv75 back then before Abyssea arrived and if you went NIN it was usually due to the fact that you didn’t have the most vital jobs or you had nothing else Lv75.

Now NIN is very much playable ever since Abyssea on almost all content available. NIN passes as Tank &/or NIN passes as actual DPS. 75 cap was not the case. NIN was not a DPS back then Vs HNM. Either Utsusemi worked vs targets or it didn’t & therefore no NIN in setups.

Why is your only gauge on usefulness DPS?

The majority of jobs were situational.

NIN was still useful in more situations than most jobs back then. You want to know how often my DRK was brought to sky god clears? Never. In comparison, for a good period of time we brought NIN to every single one. Back before bards got common enough to give them to DD parties, DD jobs basically never taken for HNMs unless they were filler spots taken up by Opo-opo TP gain > 3000 TP WS every 5 minutes.

I respect the fact that NIN was used in such cases that you mentioned. My EGLS used strictly PLD or PLD/NIN. I was always BLM or RDM and later on SCH but certainly not NIN. I’m merely pointing out the fact that NIN is far more enjoyable now as an actual DPS than it ever was back in 75 era as well as being a full time playable Job unlike before.

That’s not even what you said last page lol. You’re back-peddling now that there’s a bunch of going wtfno.

All I spoke about was NIN doing no Dmg. I’m not sure how you perceived my statements any differently.

You said it was the worst job in the game, and it takes a heck of a lot more than an inability to do damage on the hardest enemies in the game to make something the worst job.

So……. Then what Job was back then if not NIN
Anyone w/ just NIN leveled to 75 in EGLS of that era was useless 90-95% of the time.

Not sure what's up here, I was main tank for an endgame LS as NIN doing pretty much everything the game has for HNM, Kirin/Gods, Jormungand, etc... before and after TOAU.

NIN/DRK tanking is what we valued from the job, not DPS damage... so you probably a little off-track a bit.

No matter what point you make someone is going to disagree and name a different time and a different meta.

It's a completely pointless conversation. Less than pointless, detrimental. You're arguing about ***a decade ago.

He seems like the guy that would post pics of his 1337sauce WS DMG on LB mobs in Xarca, cause it's all about the high damage number, not the situation for him.
But like Eiryl said, truth doesn't matter to this guy. Even tho we all know NIN was far from "the worst job in the game".

To put things slightly back in line on "buff or no buff", I think as things stand it's more that people's problem with Ninja isn't towards the job and it's mechanics specifically... It's that Katanas (outside of the very niche of the hybrids thanks to Nyame) are weaksauce compared to pretty much every other weapon type.
At least that's what I think is what is why people find dissatisfaction with Ninja, especially as a DD.

Cause as soon as something has a SDT for earth, ice, or water... or a large MDB (like pretty much any NM)... or even just a large elemental resist value for those elements... the hybrids become worthless in terms of damage.
And then when you have only the physical skills for damage, it's no bueno.

If they did something similar to how they buffed H2H, everything would be perfect.

Early into 75, definitely PLD since they had basically no enmity tools (outside of weak cures) or real damage mitigation until later buffs and additions. It wasn't until shield adjustments, wider distribution of DT, and additions like Flash and Phalanx that they could actually perform as a legitimate tank.

Later into 75, probably PUP, or maybe DRG.


NIN being able to tank very well made them more useful than most other jobs, and they could also solo and do moderate DD. NIN was probably top 5 jobs in early 75, and around middle of the pack in later 75.

BST. PUP could at least be used on HNMs and was more useful for Exp.

I could be recalling wrong, I've bounced in and out of the game over the course of 20 years.

NIN started tanking when the Utsusemi recast time was reduced early on (~2003 maybe?). Once Utsusemi: Ni was obtained, it would tank early content in exp parties using the elemental wheel to keep hate. Once you obtained Blade: Jin, you did enough damage to hold hate with that combined with white damage and using jobs like THF that could transfer hate. This was the case all the way up to 75. I remember this because I took NIN to 75 as my second job because I wanted a job that was actually desired in exp parties and content.

There were also the days of lolPLD, although they were narrow, PLD was the only other real tanking option and it didn't do that great compared to NIN and was more situational against certain fights, but def not as heavily used during exp parties.

I believe this started to fall off during the Abyssea era and especially during WotG era. The mobs were hitting faster, they were bypassing shadows, and more fights involved more AoE that would wipe shadows. It was also harder for NIN to keep hate via damage because it became harder to do damage and other DDs got more damage dealing potential. I think it was around that time NINs place in a party started to get weird and uncertain, something that has apparently continued despite some improvement.

I do agree with the previous poster, I think buffing physical WS would do a lot to boost NIN. I at least want to get rid of having to use Naegling against content hybrids aren't weak to. It's stupid that NIN has to use a sword for content strong to hybrids.

All that being said, I don't know what 75 era existed where NIN was anything other than one of the top 5 jobs, but it wasn't one that I remember.

Hey, atonement spam did pretty well back then all things considered so long as you could get your dmg above 1 which wasnt too difficult iirc

Aint just nin doing that sadly

Hey, at least BLU is an A+ Sword skill job. Can't expect everyone to have a Mythic, so that's not a choice that really bothers me at all. Annoying as hell to have your NIN DRG RNG THF BRD etc. relying (not unreasonably) on freaking Savage Blade though.

BLU was added to the original Sapara of Trials for Savage Blade quest, so it's no issue being able to use Savage/Naegling. Its all of the other jobs on there that got a Free DPS card.

Reaction so strongly to what other are doing for themselves, that does not impact you, really seems so republican evangelist...

"Though shall not use naegling nor the savageblade on the color of blue."
Sudra - 1:1

Got it, I’ll use my Sequence instead of Naegling if I’m ever meleeing on BLU.