The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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By SimonSes 2021-04-15 17:05:52
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
If you won it, it would sit in your moghouse because nin is lower dps than every other job. So don't flip out you can't have it.

Lower dps than what? PLD? RUN? You seems to completely dont understand. Its a weapon for tanking. It makes NIN amazing tank. We are talking about situation where tank might not even be engaged.

If you can't understand what potent is self casted enmity tool that has 960CE/2880VE (6ppl getting hit with Utsusemi), gives shadows to tank and everyone else and cant be spammed, because you can cycle through Ichi,Ni,San with , then I have no idea how to explain it. In comparison RUN has Foil, which PLD are jelly about and Foil is 320CE/880VE, doesnt give shadows to anyone and can't be spammed because it has like 9 sec cooldown even with maxed out recast reduction.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-04-15 17:13:31
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No, I do get it. There's no point caring because no one can have it and there's no point attempting to say you would use it if you had it, because you don't and you can't.
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By SimonSes 2021-04-15 17:17:31
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
No, I do get it. There's no point caring because no one can have it and there's no point attempting to say you would use it if you had it, because you don't and you can't.

Oh I agree its the biggest *** move from SE in the history of this game imo. Single item that changes everything about NIN tanking being locked behind Bonanza. Its the ultimate slap in the face.
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By Ruaumoko 2021-04-15 18:55:23
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Leviathan.Nitenichi said: »
SimonSes said: »
The simplest test is to make party with SCH. Sleep unclaimed mob with naked SCH. That should give you 201CE and 300VE. Wait several seconds. On naked NIN/WHM use cure I on full HP SCH to put yourself on mob hate list. Then turn on Yonin and cast Utsusemi.

Wait 10+ second and use Libra on SCH. Libra should show something like NIN having 100% enmity and SCH like 96% (assuming both SCH and NIN dont have enmity merits and you casted Utsusemi just after using Yonin, so it got +30 enmity bonus).

Do the same (with another mob and with fresh Yonin), but with Darkblade, so SCH will get hit with utsusemi. If multiplier work, then Libra will show NIN having 100% enmity and SCH below 50%.

EDIT: Keep in mind its really important to claim mob on SCH with sleep. Because otherwise SCH wont get 200CE for first action taken on monster.




Wow, here's hoping it becomes earnable through Voracious Resurgence. Impressive.
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 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2021-04-15 19:16:05
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Soo...Eiryl is incredibly butthurt and trolled by this weapon to the point where he is shitting all over the place in RL...

This single weapon absolutely destroys not only his ego but his entire purpose in RL... I’ve never seen him this trolled and distraught before....lol


Just FYI.. I’m a career SAM... but I know that NIN can keep up with SAM in DPS zergs...

A good skilled and HQ geared BIS top of the line NIN can.. I’ve worked with a few Career NINs before.. and at capped DPS power they are incredible... AND offer greater utility than SAM and even WAR and DRK..

This weapon Impacts NIN in the OP way that Yagrush Impacts WHM....

Stop Crying Diahhrea Eiryl... accept the reality.. you don’t know ***....NIN owns you...Yagyu Darkblade owns you... but don’t stop we enjoy your tears..
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By Ruaumoko 2021-04-15 19:54:17
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I'd also like to give Nitenichi a shout-out for going out of his way to test this. If it becomes available, one way or another, in future we now know what it can do.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-15 20:10:23
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It's going to become available after 5 more bonanzas, when they've milked 100 billion more gil off the server and allow you to pick *one* of these at the end of TVR.

There is no way they will lock this indefinitely behind Bonanza.
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 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2021-04-15 20:14:32
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Ruaumoko said: »
I'd also like to give Nitenichi a shout-out for going out of his way to test this. If it becomes available, one way or another, in future we now know what it can do.

Thanks, appreciate that! A couple of follow-ups:

1: You don't gain any attack via shadows to the party.
2: 10 yalm radius {for Sechs}
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 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2021-04-15 20:41:42
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Leviathan.Nitenichi said: »
SimonSes said: »
The simplest test is to make party with SCH. Sleep unclaimed mob with naked SCH. That should give you 201CE and 300VE. Wait several seconds. On naked NIN/WHM use cure I on full HP SCH to put yourself on mob hate list. Then turn on Yonin and cast Utsusemi.

Wait 10+ second and use Libra on SCH. Libra should show something like NIN having 100% enmity and SCH like 96% (assuming both SCH and NIN dont have enmity merits and you casted Utsusemi just after using Yonin, so it got +30 enmity bonus).

Do the same (with another mob and with fresh Yonin), but with Darkblade, so SCH will get hit with utsusemi. If multiplier work, then Libra will show NIN having 100% enmity and SCH below 50%.

EDIT: Keep in mind its really important to claim mob on SCH with sleep. Because otherwise SCH wont get 200CE for first action taken on monster.





Shout out to Cardib! Way to keep it real!
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 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-04-16 01:27:54
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Well, that would be insanely cool to have. Woulda been really cool to have back in the day.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-16 02:17:39
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Asura.Syto said: »
Just FYI.. I’m a career SAM... but I know that NIN can keep up with SAM in DPS zergs...
Uhm °-°
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By SimonSes 2021-04-16 02:35:16
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Syto said: »
Just FYI.. I’m a career SAM... but I know that NIN can keep up with SAM in DPS zergs...
Uhm °-°

Exactly lol

Eiryl is wrong about how much this change NIN as tank: true
Eiryl is butthurt (me too) that this is locked behind bonanza: true
Nin can keep up with SAM in DPS zerg: NONSENSE
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-04-16 02:47:20
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meh, NIN is not 100% all DPS, that's not it's full scope.
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By SimonSes 2021-04-16 02:52:18
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
meh, NIN is not 100% all DPS, that's not it's full scope.

That's why I tried to argue with Eiryl, that DPS has nothing to do with this weapon, because its an ultimate tanking weapon, that makes NIN best enmity generator tank in game, that also provides shadows to party and all that on top of its existing benefits (like inhibit TP ninjutsu). In serious content when that matters, tank often wont even engage.

Trying to argue Eiryl by saying NIN can keep up with SAM in dps in zerg is just fail. It's like trying to fight with fire by throwing dry wood at it.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-04-16 03:02:14
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SimonSes said: »
It's like trying to fight with fire by throwing dry wood at it.
lol
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-16 04:16:15
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
meh, NIN is not 100% all DPS, that's not it's full scope.
Won't argue about that, and I love NIN.
But if you're talking about a DPS zerg and saying the NIN can keep up with the SAM then uhm...

If the SAM is dead? If the SAM is not buffed? If the SAM gear sucks? Lol I dunno, I'm sure if we cherry pick some very specific situation the NIN can keep up, but in a "normal" scenario no way that's gonna happen, alas.
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 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2021-04-17 04:28:53
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Leviathan.Draugo said: »
meh, NIN is not 100% all DPS, that's not it's full scope.
Won't argue about that, and I love NIN.
But if you're talking about a DPS zerg and saying the NIN can keep up with the SAM then uhm...

If the SAM is dead? If the SAM is not buffed? If the SAM gear sucks? Lol I dunno, I'm sure if we cherry pick some very specific situation the NIN can keep up, but in a "normal" scenario no way that's gonna happen, alas.

I’ve seen ‘em keep up. The margin of difference is of course way larger with Yaegasumi active in a sprint Zerg on a single NM. They won’t keep up remotely close over an HQ SAM in that scenario. If you are referring to this as “Normal” then yes I agree they won’t be able to keep up very closely..

Now in a competitive scenario without Yaegasumi like in Dyna-D jumping from Fodder Mob to Mob they can parse second within 5%-7% difference. That’s pretty impressive and possible with the latest gear. Of course the NIN would have to be very aggressive.. Also throwing in some Magic Bursts on them when able with the best gear..

I just think due to the power creeps over the last 3-4 years and OP Naegling builds on other jobs.. many jobs are stronger than we may think.. jobs that everyone made fun of in the past like loldrg and lolnin in zergs should be re-evaluated and re-ranked.. I also have Naegling Savage-Goons in my LS that produce insane numbers..

Now of course they will all get an even greater boost across the board with max Nyame Path B where they see fit in WS sets.. (after a long odyssey grind..-_-;)
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By SimonSes 2021-04-17 05:09:36
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Asura.Syto said: »
Now in a competitive scenario without Yaegasumi like in Dyna-D jumping from Fodder Mob to Mob they can parse second within 5%-7% difference. That’s pretty impressive and possible with the latest gear. Of course the NIN would have to be very aggressive.. Also throwing in some Magic Bursts on them when able with the best gear..

If you mean SAM having like 17% on parse and NIN having 10% then yeah it's 7% difference, except that means SAM is doing 70% more damage lol

Asura.Syto said: »
I just think due to the power creeps over the last 3-4 years and OP Naegling builds on other jobs.. many jobs are stronger than we may think.. jobs that everyone made fun of in the past like loldrg and lolnin in zergs should be re-evaluated and re-ranked.. I also have Naegling Savage-Goons in my LS that produce insane numbers..

None is laughing from DRG since it got ws damage trait and ws damage boost from wyvern presence. This alone pushed it to being competitive.

Nin haven't got any boosts and Neagling is not enough. Also nin has not enough native accuracy to use tp bonus offhand as widely as BLU or DNC. Nin is only competitive with hybrid WSs, but they only work for outdated content or some Dynamis D.
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By Asura.Syto 2021-04-17 05:14:13
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SimonSes said: »

If you mean SAM having like 17% on parse and NIN having 10% then yeah it's 7% difference, except that means SAM is doing 70% more damage lol

Nin haven't got any boosts and Neagling is not enough. Also nin has not enough native accuracy to use tp bonus offhand as widely as BLU or DNC. Nin is only competitive with hybrid WSs, but they only work for outdated content or some Dynamis D.

Yeah that’s true.. when you put it that way.. I’m just trying to give NIN some more love.. lol.. I’m loving the job.. wish I would of made it sooner..

Yes Dynamis-D .. I also think they do great in Odyssey SegFarms..
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By SimonSes 2021-04-17 06:16:31
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Asura.Syto said: »
Yes Dynamis-D .. I also think they do great in Odyssey SegFarms..

Hybrid WSs? Idk, most mobs in Shaol C has some elemental resists or mdb I think. Hybrid also wont wor on anything that has slashing resistance. I havent really looked into it, but maybe it can be good for several groups of mobs. That being said NIN is still behind even then, because you only have good slashing option. DRG, WAR, SAM have at least 2 great type options and job like BLU has 1 great and 2nd good, but can provide dps boost for other.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-17 08:35:22
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SimonSes said: »
Also nin has not enough native accuracy
In an "ideal" scenario where the monster doesn't turn and NIN can stay behind, then you can exploit Innin and at that point Accuracy won't be an issue anymore I think.
But clearly that's not a very realistic scenario, sadly.
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By Wyrmnax 2021-04-17 12:57:18
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Innin and Yonin being mob-facing based is kinda terrible for the skills, tbh. Fights became too quick to really be able to count on them, and then there is a lot of lag to account for on Dyna-D and Odyssey. Also, the decay on the abilities just make no sense anymore.

I really like that new katana, but thor damnit, it is dumb that it is locked behind bonanza. I will never see the weapon, and it will be rare enough that you can't really consider it as standard or build around it. The few people that have one will be able to test and push it, but everyone else is locked away from a potentially game-changing skill.

-_-"
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-17 13:16:50
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Nobody who has it will be able to push the weapon, because there will be too few available in the game for people to see the practicality of it. It takes time (and success) for something to be meta. Nobody is going to allow a random ninja who "picked" a cool weapon to use its "game changing skill" in a real event, because why. They can do it without a ninja testing some theory out. (Su5 katana did nothing to change that perception, either).

I've personally had to convince LS members to let me tank some Ambuscade on ninja because they've never seen it before and doubted the success it would have been just using paladin or rune. People don't just change their play style because one person has a cool weapon.

When all of the people who have ninja geared as an appropriate tank start pushing it, and people can see it being useful in several areas, then it will be mainstream enough to be outraged about. Right now, it's cool what it can do. Nothing to be upset about
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 Asura.Kitfoxtrot
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By Asura.Kitfoxtrot 2021-04-29 11:48:41
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Sad times.

Can we collectively go hit up official forms and request some job adjustments for nin? Squeaky wheel gets the oil etc. I've tried just about every route, collected every sliver of gear (still working on t4 rp, I am curious to see metsu spam w/it) and it still lags hard in just about every scenario dd/tank. I love playing the job, just 9.8 times out of 10 it has no purpose/spot for group content and if you can force it in some how, there's a job that can do it better.

As a dd, it has no purpose in group content when you can have a "support" job crank out better #'s and give group buffs.

As a tank, again we have nothing to offer the pt like run/pld. Last night was sad to see my run did 1k more dps tanking in ambu vs tanking on nin. Granted yaya...mnk mob & counter so spinning a lot of uts. so a hit to dps, but that's also the point, evasion tanking is pretty much dead and we don't have anything like inquarta just a watered down version of battua.

low dmg and/or no group buffs. It's not a gear issue for the job it's fundamental.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-04-29 11:58:48
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All you can do is come to grips with the fact that nin isn't a dd. It's not supposed to compete with dd.

It needs fixes and a lot of things need nerfs. Til they happen you're just gonna have to accept it.
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By Izanami 2021-04-29 12:51:38
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Asura.Kitfoxtrot said: »
Sad times.

Can we collectively go hit up official forms and request some job adjustments for nin? Squeaky wheel gets the oil etc.

I posted my suggestions to the official forum back in September 2020. The post has 2500 views, 19 'likes,' and 8 comments. Feel free to comment on it to keep it active.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57263-2020-2021-Ninja-Job-Adjustment-and-Feedback?s=7c4109ebeea278d1f4b5bb7df6aad49c


Asura.Eiryl said: »
All you can do is come to grips with the fact that nin isn't a dd. It's not supposed to compete with dd.

Unfortunately, NIN isn't really a tank or a support either.
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By mhomho 2021-04-29 17:11:47
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
no one can have it

Nitenichi has it. That's objectively some one. That means your statement is objectively and literally false. The reality is more along the lines of Eiryl can't have it so he'll stick his fingers in his ears and pretend it doesn't exist whilst encouraging others to join him. Except, in the future others may also gain access to this tool.

Face it Eiryl. Your ego prevents from accepting fallibility. Instead of apologizing (like hey maybe it's legit, Niten can we try some strats out?) you double down.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
It needs fixes and a lot of things need nerfs.

Nothing needs fixed or nerfed. This phase, yes even OPOPNaegling, will come to pass just as every other has. Equipment and itemization will continue to progress the jobs. Things like: Yagyu Darkblade.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's not supposed to compete with dd.

Hmmm. It's almost like it's supposed to tank; or, *GASPS* it doesn't fit you playstyle of zerging. Low-manning with trusts on nin can still accomplish a ton. Now they gave nin a tool to help keep their trusts alive while they're potentially generating enmity.

It's a very interesting item. You can't discredit it when Nitenichi's is the only known one. Others may have it on mules they're debating leveling up or making into their main. Others may be JP. More will pop up. . .
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 Asura.Aburaage
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By Asura.Aburaage 2021-05-02 23:26:39
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I've been messing around with blade: chi and savage blade for NIN since I have pretty decently ranked nyame gears. Pretty stoked with the numbers. Fully buffed, chi/savage blade numbers are already very good at 1k-1.5k TP.

r15 heishi/r8 kunimitsu 1.3k~ tp, frailty/malaise, tested few times 99k without multihit


fury/frailty

1k tp


3k tp


fury frailty
3k tp
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By SimonSes 2021-05-03 01:21:16
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99k on Apex was already easy with good set. You need nyame feet, legs, hands and body at R20 to really beat old set and if you had good herculean augments the improvement in raw damage won't be high anyway, it would mostly be improvement in macc and survivability then. The problem for hybrid ws is that elemental damage is often heavily reduced in many eng game events.

This 3000tp Savage being only ~18% higher than 1000tp obviously doesnt make sense, unless you used tp bonus katana offhand which you should mention then. Otherwise it looks like some double TA proc on that 1000tp vs regular 3000tp. That's also why posting damage of single ws doesn't make sense if you trying to make a point imo.
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