The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-08-16 15:46:48
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No they really don't give a damn and I'm at the point where neither do I because lolnin nuking.
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By kishr 2019-08-16 21:59:38
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Love it or hate it, play nin as you like to,
Not much to it till they mnga
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-08-16 23:00:59
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If someone is super horny for the yonin / in in bonuses, the feet would be... Well still not really good to TP IN, but certainly better than the head. Also very interesting WS option I guess?
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By Bahamut.Butmunch 2019-08-25 22:32:07
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is there a way to stop ya from blinking when you swap ammos that is not Dressup?
 Asura.Hrohj
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By Asura.Hrohj 2019-08-25 23:12:27
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Asura.Sechs said: »
If someone is super horny for the yonin / in in bonuses, the feet would be... Well still not really good to TP IN, but certainly better than the head. Also very interesting WS option I guess?

In my experience, Mochizuki Kyahan +3 are mediocre for a WS option unless you're starved for attack such as when you're receiving low-quality attack buffs (Trusts) or none at all. IF the enhanced augment for Innin was on them- I agree with you- they'd be incredible... it's not hard to position yourself behind the target unless you're the one tanking it.

As is, they're just a macro piece for +Enmity sets and +Ninjutsu Skill sets which really only pertain to Migawari: Ichi, sadly.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-08-25 23:26:37
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They were bad indeed for WS but the innin augment (if swapped on the feet as implied on my post) would give WSD.

Bahamut.Butmunch said: »
is there a way to stop ya from blinking when you swap ammos that is not Dressup?
Alas nope.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-10 01:57:25
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So they swapped the RDM augments but they didn't swap the NIN ones.
Why?
What did we do wrong?
Didn't we complain enough?
Was there something we could've done and we didn't do?
Is tehre still something left we can do?

I feel very disheartened and frustrated by all this.
Poor NIN, unwanted child of SE :(
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By kishr 2019-09-10 04:24:13
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Does any the new lilith gear look bis for tp now for nin?
Looks good to me. Dt- 31, stp 51, acc 250, dmg limit+20%.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-10 04:55:34
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For Hybrid sets: GODLY, but it goes without saying.
For pure TP in max DPS damage disregarding damage mitigation, I'm not sure honestly.
You lose a lot of multiattack and you cannot compensate (like other jobs) with AM3 from Mythic (since NIN's mythic is garbage) or special abilities (like RDM's Temper2)

Other than Blade: TEN (which is nice but nothing stellar) we don't even have a WS we can exploit with all that STP.

Maybe some strange builds with Naegling MH, TPbonus OH etc? But you'd still be missing so much Multiattack, not sure going 5/5 with the new set would prove to be effective.



Anyway, just my two cents, I'd be very curious to hear more opinions from other competent players.
Imho 5/5 is not gonna be a DPS gain.
Yes, I'm including short zergs with capped attack (where you could benefit from all that PDL) as well, because in zergs the majority of damage comes from WS, not white damage, and most (all?) of those pieces are probably not that great for WS since they lack high mods and WSD. PDL alone won't compensate, I'm afraid.

Outside of the 5/5 scenario and talking about single pieces mix&match, I'm not sure, but there could be some potential in some slot maybe (legs?)
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By mhomho 2019-09-10 08:37:25
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... The PDL for Kannagi AM3 white damage?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-10 09:01:26
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Granted that Kannagi overall DPS is tipically not the best even at R15, but it can be really really nice in a couple of situations, like Capuchin showed all of us.

Kannagi mostly excels in situations where you're devoid of buffs.
In such situations you're unlikely to cap attack, hence PDL would be absolutely useless.
Furthermore in such a scenario you're likely to be wanting to equip Dual Wield gear anyway, so hardly a spot for any of these pieces.



I can't think of any real situation, but in a Scenario where NIN is att capped and Kannagi works nice against the current target(s), then yes 5/5 on the Lilith set could be truly truly nice, BiS if you ask me.
...but does such a scenario even exist? I can't think of any right now.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-09-11 01:54:11
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Can't say enough good things about Malignance set for NIN. Especially for Hybrid Tanking and Debuff landing.

Also its +50 stp, not 51. I would sprinkle in Ashera and Kendatsuba for some interesting builds.
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By Taint 2019-09-11 06:03:20
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Kannagi AM3 procs on all main hand hits, hard to give up TA/QA for PDL.

NIN also handles physical damage taken via shadows, so you are left with MDT which is easy to cap and MEVA which you will be leaning on Kenda.

I'm sure there is a rare senario in which this set excels for NIN, I just can't think of it.
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 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-09-11 06:36:53
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Maybe just the magic acc? The set I have I know isn't great. Its ripped from weird content all over the game. I always felt ninja got absolute horse crap for magic acc and why even bother half the time trying to land debuffs. But the set might help this cause finally
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By Nariont 2019-09-11 07:24:47
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Mummu set exists, plus the 2 pieces of af+3, relic might have some too, cant remember

Yeah you gain a massive 15 macc with some int loss going from mummu+2 to lilith gear in the hands/body/legs af still wins in head/feet slot iirc
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-09-11 09:48:49
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This set has 88 meva over kendatsuba which is a sizable amount. It also shines as a great all purpose inventory saver: carrying around extra mummu pieces for the few times you will throw out a ninja debuff, I'll take the inventory. Same with the DT pieces you'd already have on you. I probably wouldn't use this set as a whole, but like I said earlier, sprinkled in some of my sets to make some interesting combinations.

Magic damage is ninjas biggest weakness. Even in kendatsuba set you're going to take a good amount of damage, not to mention stripped shadows. This set will be a nice way of being the gap from reapplying shadows while taking even less damage from both sources, because it offers DT along with meva. I would certainly still keep kendatsuba+1 in an offensive oriented battle, since the MA is epic. But in a more defensive/magic aoe fest, I could see some applications where swapping a 1-2 Kenda pieces for 1-2 Malignance pieces would be ideal. Yes it's a dps sacrifice, but for survival and assisting your healer's sake, I think its a worthwhile downgrade.

With R15 kikoku, your casts in fc set are near instant. I wonder if I can start subbing out FC for some of these pieces to create a rune styled hybrid high DT casting set. Options
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-11 12:01:26
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
This set has 88 meva over kendatsuba which is a sizable amount.
Indeed, but Kendatsuba also has a plethora of TA and Crit though.

Not sure STP alone can compensate for that.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-09-11 12:06:53
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Yup, which is why I said:

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I would certainly still keep kendatsuba+1 in an offensive oriented battle, since the MA is epic. But in a more defensive/magic aoe fest, I could see some applications where swapping a 1-2 Kenda pieces for 1-2 Malignance pieces would be ideal. Yes it's a dps sacrifice, but for survival and assisting your healer's sake, I think its a worthwhile downgrade.

It's ok to make DPS sacrifices for other improvements. Everything is situational as usual and fight dependent
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-11 12:40:01
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This set is awesome, period.
Point is that it seems to me it doesn't shine particularly so for NIN, not as much as it does for RDM and secondarily DNC, in my opinion.

For NIN it's just a "really nice set that's got some potential for hybrid situations", I'm afraid.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-23 18:28:11
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Anybody ever tried to solo (real solo, only trusts, no mules allowed!) Omen on NIN?
I had my very first attempt today and it was a failure so I'm willing to share my experience looking for ways to improve.

I used the following trusts:

Then I used mostly this gearset, which is not ideal but it's what I have hey.

I was keeping up the following buffs up:

First floor completed with like 2:30 mins left (specific monster, was literally the LAST one)
Second Floor completed with like bit less than 9 mins left (kill 12)
On third floor the miniboss I got was Gorger, the one that copies buffs.
I tried to keep Att down and TP down on it. They were sticking easy, not sure they were up 100% but I tried.
Not sure if KoH was bothering with Slow2 and Paralyze2... I always forget which debuffs he uses other than Dia3.

Sooo long story short I wiped at like bit less than 20% HP left with over 9 mins left because a Quadratic Continuum hit me for 2,5k. Was a bit of bad luck/timing but I admit I wasn't playing very safe, not at all.
Was I scared to time out maybe? But I had plenty of time left...

I was using my full DD set btw, no hybrid. This gives me like uhm, 14% PDT iir.

I tried doing 4 step (Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun), it was working nice but getting interrupted from trusts most of the time, after a while I stopped bothering and started spamming Shun or Ten. They were both hitting for like ~9k Damage (with Berserk/Warcry down), which isn't really... stellar.
I used Berserk on purpose because my intent was for the Gorger to copy it so I could deal more damage to it, but in hindsight maybe I should've played it safe?


So, other than taking it slowly & safe, what would you guys change in what I did? Curious to read more opinions.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-09-23 18:41:46
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Doggies does it with just a GEO mule, not too much different.

You should ask him details, I've seen him merc a few runs.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-09-23 18:53:03
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Tbh i took an 840 skill GEO mule into omen before, non-Idris and it was a lot faster even with gimped as hell geo bubbles.

Doing with trusts only is a lot slower.

I have soloed Gin once on NIN, but I got fairly lucky so idk if i could do again, I got Thinker midboss and was straight forward.

I use Yoran, Koru, Qultada, Ulmia, Joachim. Shadow tank/keep Migawari up and hope for the best.
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By SimonSes 2019-09-23 18:53:38
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Doggies does it with just a GEO mule, not too much different.

You should ask him details, I've seen him merc a few runs.

It's actually a lot of difference on that midboss. You can seriously weaken its def and boost your attack with GEO and it can't copy any of that. You can basically just use bard for marches, entrust haste, geo frailty, indi fury and just zerg it down without any risk. Without GEO you have no easy way to buff your attack or weaken its def. If you attempt to buff yourself, you will end up buffing midboss too and it can end up badly, so you need to play it safe and long without geo.

@Sechs I suggest using tank trust for that midboss. You can run Innin then and you probably wont pull hate fast, so you will be able to focus on damage instead of casting shadows. Dont use Berserk, Warcry or Chaos rolls. Basically nothing that buffs your attack. Just use Tachi: Ageha and Dia III.
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 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2019-09-23 19:03:14
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Anybody ever tried to solo (real solo, only trusts, no mules allowed!) Omen on NIN?
I had my very first attempt today and it was a failure so I'm willing to share my experience looking for ways to improve.

I used the following trusts:

Then I used mostly this gearset, which is not ideal but it's what I have hey.

I was keeping up the following buffs up:

First floor completed with like 2:30 mins left (specific monster, was literally the LAST one)
Second Floor completed with like bit less than 9 mins left (kill 12)
On third floor the miniboss I got was Gorger, the one that copies buffs.
I tried to keep Att down and TP down on it. They were sticking easy, not sure they were up 100% but I tried.
Not sure if KoH was bothering with Slow2 and Paralyze2... I always forget which debuffs he uses other than Dia3.

Sooo long story short I wiped at like bit less than 20% HP left with over 9 mins left because a Quadratic Continuum hit me for 2,5k. Was a bit of bad luck/timing but I admit I wasn't playing very safe, not at all.
Was I scared to time out maybe? But I had plenty of time left...

I was using my full DD set btw, no hybrid. This gives me like uhm, 14% PDT iir.

I tried doing 4 step (Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun), it was working nice but getting interrupted from trusts most of the time, after a while I stopped bothering and started spamming Shun or Ten. They were both hitting for like ~9k Damage (with Berserk/Warcry down), which isn't really... stellar.
I used Berserk on purpose because my intent was for the Gorger to copy it so I could deal more damage to it, but in hindsight maybe I should've played it safe?


So, other than taking it slowly & safe, what would you guys change in what I did? Curious to read more opinions.

I recently did a video on soloing this guy with Ninja. Give is a look. Yes Omen is definitely soloable on Ninja but it takes careful planning and in the case of the bosses some good gear in able to deal enough damage before time runs out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZUKWFbM9Iw
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-24 06:19:21
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Allright, thanks for the insights.
So basically if we could sum things up:

Gorger: play it safe, avoid att buffs, summon a tank and use Innin

Craver: think SimonSes and Shiraj posted about it in the MNK thread. It's about having Sel'teus, Apururu and what else for AoE healings I think.

Thinker: With a normal group that stands 20+ you could just laugh at Pain Synch and ride Migawari, but here we're with Trusts. Sure you could survive Pain Sync but your trusts would not. So I think you kinda need to play it safe and keep your attention up for the ~9 mins? Required to kill it.

Gin: With 3 or 4 HQ Kenda magic damage/debuffs shouldn't be an issue, neither Interference. Trusts are a different story and I'm afraid they will die from AoE or Apururu will run out of mp fast spamming curagas. Sooo... maybe it's best to try to use ranged trusts I guess? Qultada, Joachim, Apururu, King Of Hearts? Maybe Brygid for a bit more MDB? Or moogle for 3mp/tic for Apururu.
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By Sylph.Reain 2019-09-24 10:09:17
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Biggest thing will be luck on the objectives to give you enough time to kill mid-boss and Gin. Positioning/summoning your trusts properly will make the bosses easier.

Some videos for thought. (Warning: Cornelia is in some of them if you don't want to upset yourself)

NIN vs Gin: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/311446424
NIN vs Gin: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31984531
NIN vs Kin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FS5UlZCZgo
NIN vs Fu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFG6qZgJNZs

BLU vs Gin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9J2o1WRoLM
BLU vs Fu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWfyTMIhyIA

RDM vs Kin: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm33832289

Some of these are old and are probably not the best trust choices anymore. Ygnas or Yoran may be good choices for Gin because they will most likely resist breakga if he casts it.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-24 10:31:51
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Ygnas and Yoran have resist-break trait? Wut?

Thanks for sharing the videos btw.
First NIN takes like 21 mins to kill, second NIN takes ~17 but she has Cornelia (/shacklefist).

So yeah I think I have to quote you on that "luck" part. 20+ mins for Gin, 10+ mins for miniboss and I'd say probably ~10-20 mins for the other 3 floors' objectives makes for very long runs, whoaaa.

Wonder how faster other jobs have it.
That BLU in the video (with Cornelia >_>) kills Gin in ~12 mins for instance, now that's much faster eh, almost half the time of the first NIN.
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By SimonSes 2019-09-24 10:45:26
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Nah, Yoran and Ygnas just have high meva. Apururu sucks.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-09-24 10:49:34
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Sechs, if you do it on a job that has access to both light and dark skillchains you can kill Gin very fast.

Also the fodder floors are considered luck based you can kill all mobs in under 5 minutes with different techniques and stuff, Cleaving is good to do, but risky, if you cant pull the entire zone like rune or blu can, pull like 3-4 or something and aoe. If you cant kill all in 2-3 weaponskills then its best to single target and kill quickly and always have 2 mobs on you so you constsnty have a mob to switch to.

And Yoran doesnt have resist petrify.
I've soloed Gin a total of like 90 times on a few jobs and Yoran has never resisted Breakga from Gin once from what it seems he always does nothing when it goes off. Even my RUN gets petrified most of the time, pretty sure only resist due to Tenacity.


And regarding speed of kills, As long as you have roughly 20 minutes for Gin you can win. The difference between kills is literally who skillchains the most.
1 skillchain is like 3-5% of his HP.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-09-24 11:09:21
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Wouldn't 4 step Radiance work nice on Gin?
Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun

Of course when he's weak to light.
When he's weak to dark you can 3step Darkness with like
Retsu/Yu > Ku/Chi > Blade: Hi


...or of course you can do Shun>Shun and Hi>Hi for simple Light/Dark.
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