The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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By DaneBlood 2019-03-27 19:05:17
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Note on fotia, we tend to treat fotia as +100/1024 fTP to every WS but that's not actually what it's doing. It's +100/1024 multiplier on all WS's that SC property match's the current day. It doesn't work on WS's that don't have SC properties, like Energy Drain or Sanguine Blade. The first physical component of Hybrids doesn't have a SC property and thus Fotia wouldn't work on it, we're not sure about the magic component as that is far harder to test without knowing the result of the physical one.


I'm a little confused at this. I thought Fotia applied on WS that had SC properties, because it's based on belts that had to match the SC properties, and that it was Gavialis helm that had to match the day. Did I miss something?


this was my understanding as well. fotia is just a combination of all the old one which is an fTP increase
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-27 21:09:00
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Note on fotia, we tend to treat fotia as +100/1024 fTP to every WS but that's not actually what it's doing. It's +100/1024 multiplier on all WS's that SC property match's the current day. It doesn't work on WS's that don't have SC properties, like Energy Drain or Sanguine Blade. The first physical component of Hybrids doesn't have a SC property and thus Fotia wouldn't work on it, we're not sure about the magic component as that is far harder to test without knowing the result of the physical one.


I'm a little confused at this. I thought Fotia applied on WS that had SC properties, because it's based on belts that had to match the SC properties, and that it was Gavialis helm that had to match the day. Did I miss something?

Yes I typed that wrong, I mean the SC property of the WS needs to match the belt and if the WS doesn't have a SC property it doesn't use the belt.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-27 21:12:06
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Asura.Snapster said: »
To be clear, it's mostly the same as what we already thought with some nuance. Fotia does 'double dip' for hybrid WS but additional damage from the second dip will not get multiplied by all of the other related magic WS terms (WSD, MAB, affinity, etc.) I don't think they intentionally designed it to work this way, it's more likely just weird behavior of legacy code that was written without the scope of newer items like Fotia Gorget.

That would indicate that there are three phases, first being the physical, second being the magical, third being adding them together. It's like fotia is being applied to the third? I'm more concerned if it works on the first or not cause I wasn't seeing any damage on it when I would SA a level 0 bunny with Koki, Kagero or even Chi.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-03-27 22:03:26
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It definitely works on the physical portion of Flaming Arrow without issue. I plan on testing Teki/To/Chi to see if it's consistent and if the physical strikes have a replicating modifier and to look for the same weird behavior on the magic portion.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-03-28 02:09:12
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Slight redaction on my Ei results. I was not adding enough to the weapon level in my calculator, thus I ended up with the weird dstat value. The final results are 1.0 - 3.0 - 5.0 modifier values and 32 for the dstat term cap.
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-03-28 03:36:11
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Implemented Tauret/Kaja and Evisceration into the spreadsheet as best I could manage.

It's pretty damn good. Pushes Heishi/Fudo Ten at mediocre buffs, exceeded it at never-happening buffs. Until TP Bonus offhand was included, anyway.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-03-28 12:56:07
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Did some testing with Teki on Fired Urns (they ony taking Slashing Damage)

0 MA, 123 WSC, Fotia x2, 5 WSD (gifts)

Kunai/Kunai
[1045, 1040, 1065, 1033, 1033, 1043, 1046, 1054, 1058] (mean 1046)
Kunai/Heishi
[1620, 1640, 1633, 1623, 1608, 1658, 1650, 1634, 1608] (mean 1631)

The following are predicted means if Fotia applies to no hits/first only/all

Kunai/Kunai - 949,1046,1139
Kunai/Heishi - 1540,1637,1846

So just confirmation that for the physical strikes, Fotia does apply to the first strike but not to subsequent strikes.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 13:48:12
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I did some additional testing with Chi and To using Kujaku.

3000 TP Chi
[6161, 6157, 6851, 6811, 6747, 6783, 6743, 6763, 6621, 6824, 6702, 6883, 6819]
Mean - 6777
Expected Mean - 6763

3000 TP To
[4380, 4301, 4420, 4319, 4485, 4420, 4350]
Mean 4382
Expected Mean - 4398

2000 TP To
[3129, 2993, 3124, 3112, 3005]
Mean - 3072
Expected Mean - 3063

I didn't test the 2000 TP scaling values for Chi and Teki although I think it is safe to assume that they will scale similarly to To and Flaming Arrow/Hot Shot. The final fTP values for Teki/To/Chi.

Teki - +0.5/+1.375/+2.25
To - +0.5/+1.5/+2.5
Chi - +0.5/+1.375/+2.25

You might want to reconsider spamming these weaponskills at 1000 TP as the modifiers for the magic damage scale very differently than previously thought.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-04-04 13:58:50
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Since I suck at math, I guess that means you need at least 2k TP to make them somewhat decent?
(Aeonic, Moonshade, and some overtp?)
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 14:37:53
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I couldn't tell you what the best watermark to use, just stating that before we thought the scaling was 0.5 - 0.75 - 1.00, so going from 1000 -> 3000 TP only yielded a 2x increase, but we now know that for Teki and Chi it's a 4.5x increase and a 5x increase for To.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-04 15:23:41
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Someone needs to check GKT ones
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 19:32:23
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I've been trying to test them, but am getting confused.

I'm using Namikirimaru. It's D60. fSTR cap should be 60//9 + 8 = 14. 74 * 3.85 * 1.05 = 299 max per strike, but I'm only getting 279. A linkshell friend came out on SAM main for a bit and was only able to get 386 (didn't test for that long.) The heck?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-04-04 19:45:07
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What are you hitting? because 386 is well over 306, which would be the cap for SAM 2H.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 19:56:29
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I meant 286. Maybe the base pdif cap for small great katanas is 3.5 instead of 3.75?
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 19:59:07
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Groundskeepers. The results with and without Indi STR were the same so it's not an fstr thing. Same with bog and non bog frailty.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-04-04 20:07:47
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i also got a weird value on level one mobs which never were an issue before, just in case it was an issue of the mob.

used berylium tachi +1 and got an 1114, way out of range of 1205 to 1265.

with gozuki i got a 1205. which is in my expected range of 1166 and 1224.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-04-04 20:21:57
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i got weird values with a zanbato too. my range should be 351 - 368 on SAM and a few hits and none were in that range, they do fall in the range of 3.5 before PDL trait
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 20:23:29
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That's another short great katana. I suppose it's worth testing a normal great katana to see if we get weird values there.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-04-04 20:24:35
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they all look short on taru
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-04 20:26:21
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I was talking about berillium. It looks like great katana has hth pdif and not 2h. Maybe it got broken with some update or was never tested.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-04-04 20:27:32
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oh, thought you meant the zanbato, which was also giving a different range.
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-04-05 00:22:35
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Alright, more testing with the D60 weapon. I never got less than 266 and never more than 279, so it lines up with 3.5 + 0.1 pDIF cap. I don't know if it has always been this way or if it's a bug.

264 STR
180 MND
15% WSD (including gifts)
28 MAB (including gifts)

3000 TP Goten
[4642, 4492, 4542, 4683, 4542, 4633, 4529, 4669, 4598, 4688, 4674, 4548, 4711]

3000 TP Kagero
[5366, 5459, 5288, 5297, 5432, 5423, 5300, 5503, 5282, 5437]

3000 TP Jinpu
[5704, 5628, 5693, 5610, 5616, 5671, 5647, 5643, 5619]

3000 TP Koki
[5278, 5066, 5244, 5259, 5203, 5272, 5259, 5189, 5142, 5066]

+0.5 - +1.5 - +2.5 fits them all. Makes me wonder if I messed up Chi and Teki testing.
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-04-05 01:07:58
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Just in case it was a weird ninja thing, GKT with Samurai is also 3.5 (+.2) pDif.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-05 01:39:19
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Lol so suddenly we discovered that gkt pdif is now 3.5 This is funny, now we need to check every type of weapon I guess lol
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-04-05 02:31:41
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Polearm, Sword, Great Sword, Axe and Great Axe are where they should be.

So, mess up/stealth nerf, or we've just assumed GKT was looped in with the other 2 handers for a really long time.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-05 04:09:39
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I kinda feel that some people would notice if that was a ninja nerf. People like Ejin for example, who use SAM all the time, would probably notice drop in damage. So I kinda think that it's at 3.5 for a long time now.
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-04-05 09:50:04
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Byrth tested caps for most weapons, but after doing dagger, great sword, great axe, staff, katana, and club, he assumed other weapons fell into the simple 1-handed/2-handed categories. If GK is the only other special case, it may have been partly to compensate for Overwhelm being a thing.
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By Aerix 2019-04-11 14:03:46
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I went back a few pages, but I didn't really see a lot of discussion regarding the Hitaki. Does anybody have any in-game numbers to compare SB Naegling/Hitaki vs. Blade: Ten (R15) Heishi/Hitaki?

I don't really play NIN (yet), but I was wondering how those compare to Metsu and the other popular options?
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By Leviathan.Jakson 2019-05-01 13:34:12
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I'm getting to the point where I can afford some +1 gear, but I'm having a hard time seeing any meaningful difference but price in +1 kendatsuba head and hands and +1 adhemar head and hands. I have the abjs but the jinxed pieces don't pop up on the ah often.
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