The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

From Jinpu discussion few months back:


Why wouldn't Seething+1 beat Pemphredo?
Changed to belt/torque to test a bit more. Dont have a /sch friend for storms or I'd try that too.
+3 mochizuki head has a whopping 61 mab, 31str, 32int, and some att/acc sprinkled in there. I'm using the +2 relic head. Personally I don't have the +3 af hat, so I can't compare the two +3s, but I just imaged the huge jump in MAB would be better than the 5 WSD with lower str, no attack or acc.
I guess I could try Arvina Ringlet+1, but why would that beat INT and the same MAB (INT is a modifier)?

I forgot all about AF+3 hat lol I'll redo tests w/ it actually on

Ah, you're right. Just overlooked it, I agree that Seething+1 should be better.


AF+3 isn't WSD+5, it's WSD+10.. and that's pretty much why you'd pick it, along with solid STR/INT. Agreed that if you only have AF+2 that shouldn't be worth using over Relic +2/+3 or a good Herc Helm. Hachiya+3 does lack Acc/Atk and that can make a difference when uncapped... but I'm at somewhat of a loss on how to account for that in a hybrid WS as a rule of thumb, since the magical part can't miss anyway.

At any rate, Mochizuki +2/+3 should be pretty good too, certainly among the top options. I'd guess Mochi+3 is probably best, but YMMV on whether it's worth the massive expense. Mochi+2 is quite similar to my Herc Helm (MAB+56/STR+22/INT+20 on my Helm versus MAB+54/STR+26/INT+27) - and I don't think I was getting my Herc beating AF+3 back when I checked it out, but I'm going on memory from months ago.


I was suggesting it over the Ilabrat Ring that Luna had in the posted set. But I spaced there for a minute, and was acting like the AGI on Arvina+1 was a WS mod (it's not, I'm just used to using the ring for COR and thinking yay Leaden/Wildfire AGI mod).

So... Dingir/Acumen probably? Unless you have Karieyh +1, in which case that should replace Acumen. Am I missing another ring?

EDIT: Oh, Shiva+1. Yeah. That. Then Acumen > Fenrir +1 > Arvina+1 as your alternatives.

Could never get lucky enough with herc augments but your helm is pretty amazing. I ended up making the mask because I had all the materials and I am committed to improving my nuking set. Despite what others think of ninja nuking, I understand it's niche, but it's another tool in the toolbox for Ninja. I'll probably+3 it despite the price because it's bis nuking regardless.

In any case, when I get+3 af mask I can test the two out much better.

So I bought a 4th NIN cape, and realized I kinda don't need it? I have a DEX/DA cape for TP/Shun, a STR/WSD cape for Ten and a FC cape. I'm thinking I'll make the 4th cape for these hybrid WS people are talking about. So STR/MACC/MAB/WSD for Chi/To?

enmity is always nice.
I did a Metsu, Hi, DA/shun, fc, and enmity as my last

imo the amount of buffs we'd need to be stupid numbers arent worth it when with just brd and geo debuffs we can reach 16k+ the physical ws

I did nuking cape for my 4th. If you're not a caster, you can just use your ten cape for cho. An enmity cape works too.

What are solid NIN enmity tools? I've been running WAR sub (so I can defender and make a SC for 30k Omen MB's, mostly) so there's Provoke, but does the job have much else aside from damage and +enmity JA/spells to keep hate? Not sure I see a ton of use for enmity, but if the hybrid WS thing is just niche giggles that probably is the best thing for my 4th cape. Though guess I could make a nuking cape instead.

Yeah you've got a point, alot of the times when im tanking in omen and dyna i'll /run and macro it for all runes, flash val/pflug and my normal casting mode is enmity + macc for debuffs, also Issefuiakvl cant type it the parry move.

If people actually run NIN/RUN I am all about that life. Been THF/RUN since Adoulin came out. But I don't have JP and my gear is iffy and I'm often in the off party if doing anything so lack of buffs has me using /WAR for now.

I dont see many nin in general anyway so idk how much others like it but its def my go to when tanking and the damage isnt super bad as long as youre not using same element runes to the mob. Only issue is mp can be a pain in the *** in long fights but when I'm tanking I got lucky w/ a refresh +2 kanaria so I just use it to help and if its bad swap into m.harness from incursion for refrsh +4

NIN has Gekka + Provoke, with warcry for enmity. Certainly, you can use Reiki back if you wanted enmity I guess, so it's not the highest priority. I just said nuking since it's one of the only things NIN can do that's kind of fun.

Since my more main jobs are COR and RUN I have a decent MAB set that'll overlap with NIN, so I think I'll make a nuking cape. INT/MAB/MACC it is.

I tanked this month's Ambuscade using /RUN (so Flash, Pflug, and Vallation) supplemented with Yonin/Gekka and the enmity from Utsusemi, with some of the enfeebles occasionally mixed in.

I would still probably recommend the nuking cape as a fourth, though (Reiki cloak is already fine for enmity). A hybrid WS cape is (more or less) identical to a Ten cape and the only other real option would be a Hi cape.

I wanted to still try a 3 ninjas ambuscade this month, just powerering through boil with Migawari. Never happened :(

I'd offer to come but my NIN is still quite lacking. I did manage to tank/DD the Gorger after my RUN and DRK teammates died last night, though. I'm at 32 JP and 180~ ninjutsu skill still, lol.

I'm just shy over 500 JP. NIN definitely shines on Craver, though. Nothing he can do, besides Murk, wipes shadows. I ended up taking very little damage vs him the other day. Sadly, the omen bosses pretty much wreck NIN, so I use Migawari for interference spam, which does help out quite a lot. I managed to semi-tank KIN using subtle blow, gekka, and just rotating shadows and Tens on a run a few weeks back when the PLD got frozen terror. The only thing that sucks is the tp moves wipe shadows, so you have to choose a good DT set in time to mitigate damage. Still not a horrible second option as a tank, just gets abused without support.

Ninja does fine as a more traditional tank (i.e. using JAs/spells for enmity rather than damage) on Fu if you do it with rangers or pets. I would expect it to perform decently on Kei as well.

Everytime I'vehad to tank omen on nin, the times I forget to /run I wish I had ;; and yeah its rough with minimal support, alot of times ive had to just suck it up w/ shadow times down and just turtle

Thanks for sharing. I havent done /run once, but I will now. Think I've asked this before: can NIN eat bravado with Migawari? If not, can RR and i guess Mijin for full hp no weak.

Always been afraid to try to tank an omen boss on NIN and possibly wipe everyone's run. Maybe I'll try it with a backup PLD in case I fail, the run isn't over.

Migawari doesn't work on that or Fullers.

Fullers I just have to swap to my PDT/HP set and cureskin myself to live through it but I've heard of some people outrunning it since know its coming up etc

SE dropped the ball on making NIN good at one thing. So sad.

I think it's still really versatile but it feels like where the game is right now it doesnt matter if you can be okay at alot of things, better to be extremely good at dealing damage, tanking, nuking etc.

That's almost always how MMO's work.

I JUST WANT TO ALWAYS BE USEFUL!
But I dont know many other MMOS that actually give you different job/class choices that arent for the most part the exact same :< never played WoW but atleast in 14 it doesnt matter what job you pick youre either dps healing or tanking and at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what combination you pick.

I tried it and it sucked, you didn't miss a ton lol. Went back to tank/buff/healer and 3x COR or RNG instead, way better times.

NIN can tank the Dullahan fine with shadows/migawari though, with other people adding the damage. Melee DPS was kinda ***all around though, especially for anyone standing in front and dealing with massive shield block rate.

nin x3 (rema) geo brd whm sucked?

Yeah. We didn't have a BRD there when I tried, just GEO (and I think 6th slot was something like a RDM mule) - but it was definitely worse than using COR RNG (Last Stand spam) with comparable quality gear/skill for DPS. My LS humored me in letting us give NIN-burn a shot, but it was pretty obvious that the ranged method worked far better for us so we went back to that.

I think it wasn't so much NIN specific as it was melee in general is mediocre on Dullahan. Whichever NIN had hate did utter garbage DPS (shield block), but even Innin up and behind the mob was kinda unimpressive.

And really, if you insisted on doing it melee style, prob better off with a SMN for Earthen Armor (same effect as Migawari there) and Hastega II support for any melee DDs - doesn't need to be NIN.

That's definitely not true. I tried killing it on SAM and I had issues due to even just a couple stray (non-Empyrean) melee swings causing Castigation to deal an unmanageable amount without Migawari or EA/Scherzo protection.




It's not too hard to outrun it. I think you could probably kill it just using a NIN DD via the same method as a SAM, but I haven't actually done it myself.