Check this Ashandrei Altough is old...
It basically says 1 skill 0.9 Magic acc. So there might be a slight difference
http://robonosto.blogspot.mx/2008/12/give-me-data-or-give-me.html
A Scholar's Education (Guide)
A Scholar's Education (Guide)
Whoops, read your post wrong... read the data again. It doesn't say 1 skill=0.9 macc, it says 1 skill likely gives more than 0.9 macc, with the range implying a 1:1 relationship at a high level of confidence.
Specifically:
While the first 95% confidence interval covered .009, the last 95% confidence interval, which was generated considering all the data at hand, does not cover .009 (effective magic accuracy increase of 0.9% for every one-point increase in elemental magic skill), so it's a pretty safe bet that above 200 elemental magic skill, 1 point of elemental magic skill is equivalent to effective magic accuracy higher than 0.9%.
...
Conclusion: There is scant reason to believe that 1 point of elemental magic skill above the 200 level yields only a 0.9% increase in effective magic accuracy (unless lodeguy and I were extremely unlucky). You might as well treat it as a 1% increase! Perhaps this is not the case for other types of magic skill, and perhaps there is some funny business above the 300 level, but at least here is some conclusive evidence for the range of elemental magic skill considered.
Specifically:
Quote:
Code
Analysis Of Parameter Estimates
Standard Wald 95% Confidence Chi-
Parameter DF Estimate Error Limits Square Pr > ChiSq
Intercept 1 -1.8719 0.0683 -2.0056 -1.7381 751.90 <.0001
skill 1 0.0102 0.0003 0.0097 0.0108 1458.65 <.0001While the first 95% confidence interval covered .009, the last 95% confidence interval, which was generated considering all the data at hand, does not cover .009 (effective magic accuracy increase of 0.9% for every one-point increase in elemental magic skill), so it's a pretty safe bet that above 200 elemental magic skill, 1 point of elemental magic skill is equivalent to effective magic accuracy higher than 0.9%.
...
Conclusion: There is scant reason to believe that 1 point of elemental magic skill above the 200 level yields only a 0.9% increase in effective magic accuracy (unless lodeguy and I were extremely unlucky). You might as well treat it as a 1% increase! Perhaps this is not the case for other types of magic skill, and perhaps there is some funny business above the 300 level, but at least here is some conclusive evidence for the range of elemental magic skill considered.
While doing Meeble marbles, assistant route, we came across kill many skeletons. This was a perfect time to try out Sch/whm for the banish affect.
Needless to say we had a war with a GAxe and a drk with a scythe. While they did ok, the banishga and banish 2's were on par and at times surpassing them.
So I would recommend /whm for that path and banish.
Needless to say we had a war with a GAxe and a drk with a scythe. While they did ok, the banishga and banish 2's were on par and at times surpassing them.
So I would recommend /whm for that path and banish.
Kyron I think you're on to something here. We need to alert the community. Did you post this in the meeble burrows section of official forums?
Odin.Warusha said: »
Kyron I think you're on to something here. We need to alert the community. Did you post this in the meeble burrows section of official forums?
It's up to you, Waru!
MAKE US PROUD!
Apologies if this has already been answered somewhere, but I have a question about the choice of staff for Impact. Would Xsaeta II help with landing the additional effects? I know when doing Magian trials and using Absorb-??? spells they don't count as a dark enfeeble, so I'm leaning towards no, but I'd like confirmation if possible.
It should. I say this because using elemental seal ensures the 100% duration on impact's effects.
I'm aware most use it along with Elemental Seal, but I'm wondering for when it isn't, if the time ever comes.
I personally use Xsaeta II if ES is down.
<if CommandPrefix="/magic">
<if Spell="Impact">
<action type="precastdelay" delay="1.0" />
<if BuffActive="Elemental Seal">
<equip when="precast|midcast">
<main lock="yes">Xsaeta I</main>
<head lock="yes">empty</head>
<body lock="yes">Twilight Cloak</body>
</equip>
</if>
<else>
<equip when="precast|midcast">
<main lock="yes">Xsaeta II</main>
<head lock="yes">empty</head>
<body lock="yes">Twilight Cloak</body>
</equip>
</else>
</if>
<if CommandPrefix="/magic">
<if Spell="Impact">
<action type="precastdelay" delay="1.0" />
<if BuffActive="Elemental Seal">
<equip when="precast|midcast">
<main lock="yes">Xsaeta I</main>
<head lock="yes">empty</head>
<body lock="yes">Twilight Cloak</body>
</equip>
</if>
<else>
<equip when="precast|midcast">
<main lock="yes">Xsaeta II</main>
<head lock="yes">empty</head>
<body lock="yes">Twilight Cloak</body>
</equip>
</else>
</if>
Testing of elemental macc on debuffs whose element does not correspond to the element of the spell itself is essentially nonexistent. There have been some forays into studying monster resistance patterns and elemental alignments, but those are still ongoing.
I say essentially because I did some testing on this back at 75 cap (Blastbomb/Regurgitation bind effects), but was unable to draw any conclusions at that time. I might resume testing on this at some point, but it's fairly time-consuming to test even if I can find suitable targets.
I say essentially because I did some testing on this back at 75 cap (Blastbomb/Regurgitation bind effects), but was unable to draw any conclusions at that time. I might resume testing on this at some point, but it's fairly time-consuming to test even if I can find suitable targets.
Odin.Warusha said: »
Kyron I think you're on to something here. We need to alert the community. Did you post this in the meeble burrows section of official forums?
Not yet. I figured I post it here first as I not done many areas of meebles yet. And also get thoughts before I bring up an ida outside of the job forum.
Remora.Kyron said: »
While doing Meeble marbles, assistant route, we came across kill many skeletons. This was a perfect time to try out Sch/whm for the banish affect.
Needless to say we had a war with a GAxe and a drk with a scythe. While they did ok, the banishga and banish 2's were on par and at times surpassing them.
So I would recommend /whm for that path and banish.
Needless to say we had a war with a GAxe and a drk with a scythe. While they did ok, the banishga and banish 2's were on par and at times surpassing them.
So I would recommend /whm for that path and banish.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Testing of elemental macc on debuffs whose element does not correspond to the element of the spell itself is essentially nonexistent. There have been some forays into studying monster resistance patterns and elemental alignments, but those are still ongoing.
I say essentially because I did some testing on this back at 75 cap (Blastbomb/Regurgitation bind effects), but was unable to draw any conclusions at that time. I might resume testing on this at some point, but it's fairly time-consuming to test even if I can find suitable targets.
I say essentially because I did some testing on this back at 75 cap (Blastbomb/Regurgitation bind effects), but was unable to draw any conclusions at that time. I might resume testing on this at some point, but it's fairly time-consuming to test even if I can find suitable targets.
Correct.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110245-Debuff-Elemental-Affinity
There are multiple elements at play
- Spell Element: The element the icon displays
- Damage Resist Element: The element of the nuke/damage (Doubles as the resist element for said damage)
- Enfeeble Resist Element: The element used to determine whether a given spell's debuff will resist
- Status Effect Element: The element of the status icon itself
Each attribute down for Impact accords to a different Status Effect element (ex: DEX down is Earth; AGI down is Ice). However, the Enfeeble Resist Element is what matters for landing these debuffs. For instance, both Ageha and Angon grant Defense Down, but only Ageha's defense down uses Wind Resist Element. Similarly, Sleep and Repose both inflict Sleep (Dark Status Effect Element), but each uses a different Enfeeble Resist Element.
In short, you can use sky elementals to determine the resist element, but you must use Magian Trials to determine the Status Effect Element. It is possible for each debuff to correspond to a different resist element (ex: Full Break's Resist Elements differ for each status effect down). In that case, the "best staff" will depend on which attribute reduction you want.
Why do all the of the status down effects from impact wear off at the same time then?
A proof or disproof of the element of impacts debuff seems simple. If you get a sucess If anyone has an active Mac staff and a twilight cloak it would be an interesting quick test. cast impact on a mob, kill it. If you get trial copletion for a nondark magic acc staff, a 2nd sucess on a different staff would be a decent proof that each stat debuff carrys its normal element. If the first cast fails, and a dark magic acc staff gets credit we can assume the effect is dark based.
Edit: I actually could go test this rq I think if I cancel the little progress I have on one of my newer dmg staves, give me a few.
Edit2: also, noticed yugl already mentioned the magian staff thing.
Edit3: a bit farther than I thought but will work on it tonight.
Edit: I actually could go test this rq I think if I cancel the little progress I have on one of my newer dmg staves, give me a few.
Edit2: also, noticed yugl already mentioned the magian staff thing.
Edit3: a bit farther than I thought but will work on it tonight.
Killing a mob with impact on using a wind magic acc staff resulted in trial credit
Conclusion: each of the debuff elements carries its normal element.
Next test: (let me know if it has already been done) test to see if 1 element can be completely resisted, or a specific debuff can be forced to wear before the others. (I haven't personally seen this but rarely do mobs live long enough to have the effect wear. Will try to do this after this Kaggen run.
Edit: all elements of impact seem to be landing consistently on sky eles, which makes me sad because it is looking like I might need to get sample sizes and time durations :/
Conclusion: each of the debuff elements carries its normal element.
Next test: (let me know if it has already been done) test to see if 1 element can be completely resisted, or a specific debuff can be forced to wear before the others. (I haven't personally seen this but rarely do mobs live long enough to have the effect wear. Will try to do this after this Kaggen run.
Edit: all elements of impact seem to be landing consistently on sky eles, which makes me sad because it is looking like I might need to get sample sizes and time durations :/
Debuff affinity and monster resistance was already known per Yugl's testing, that's not the question here. The as-yet unanswered question in this is whether your macc is calculated using the element of the spell or the element of the debuff. I might have a way to test this that won't drive me completely batshit insane, will look into it over the next couple of days.
EDIT: The reason I question this goes back to the original reason I looked into debuff alignments, ie the aforementioned testing on Regurgitation's and Blastbomb's ice-based bind effect. The bind effect on both spells is pretty reliable, enough so that you could solo various NMs by abusing these two spells. Blastbomb however is a fire-based spell, so if ice affinity affected your macc regarding the debuff then you'd expect it to be unreliable if using Vulcan's Staff. Regurgitation's bind would be slightly more reliable since you'd use Neptune's Staff, which neither helps nor hurts ice affinity. That said it's worth noting here that convention was to use damage gear for Regurgitation and macc gear for Blastbomb due to the relative damage of each (Regurgitation was the primary spell employed, Blastbomb was a backup for resists). Anecdotally, I did not notice resist issues with either one. As such, I hypothesized that either the debuff of these two spells receives a macc boost or that my debuff's macc is governed by the overall element of the spell while individual resistances are determined by the monster's resistance to the debuff's element. As I mentioned previously I did some testing on this at 75 cap, but was unable to draw any conclusions from it.
EDIT: The reason I question this goes back to the original reason I looked into debuff alignments, ie the aforementioned testing on Regurgitation's and Blastbomb's ice-based bind effect. The bind effect on both spells is pretty reliable, enough so that you could solo various NMs by abusing these two spells. Blastbomb however is a fire-based spell, so if ice affinity affected your macc regarding the debuff then you'd expect it to be unreliable if using Vulcan's Staff. Regurgitation's bind would be slightly more reliable since you'd use Neptune's Staff, which neither helps nor hurts ice affinity. That said it's worth noting here that convention was to use damage gear for Regurgitation and macc gear for Blastbomb due to the relative damage of each (Regurgitation was the primary spell employed, Blastbomb was a backup for resists). Anecdotally, I did not notice resist issues with either one. As such, I hypothesized that either the debuff of these two spells receives a macc boost or that my debuff's macc is governed by the overall element of the spell while individual resistances are determined by the monster's resistance to the debuff's element. As I mentioned previously I did some testing on this at 75 cap, but was unable to draw any conclusions from it.
I had read the debuff affinity stuff posted earlier, and would be happy to read anything else posted elsewhere. I just wanted to cover the bases as impact poses some things that seem to me like they might break from the norm I didn't see mentioned. For example, I always see the debuffs wear at the same time (sample size of 200+ from random mobs that i've cast it on who live longer than the duration (although this is admittedly uncontrolled)). This lead me to question if acc rate was not dark based, was it based on the strongest or the weakest element. If weakest element the following seemed like 2 valid forms of tests:
Thought process 1: If I can tank my acc on 1 nondark element of impact, if the acc is based off of the debuff element, it should cause noticeable resists, causing all debuffs to wear more quickly and getting a decently solid disproof that the magic acc is spell element based in a smallish sample size.
which seemed faster than: find a target that gives me acc issues on all elements, and then cast impact on it hundreds of times wearing thunder magic acc staff/chatoyant staff/dark magic acc(which would cause issues because impact has a dark based debuff (lower-chr) and possibly give false results)/possibly apollos? and compare results
If that is wrong logic, or has already been done, please let me know, would save me tons of time. I had been thinking my next test would be to go to PvP and possibly try some casts against someone using barfira/fire carol/resist gear (taking into account as much as I can that PvP has growing Resistance to debuffs).
I'm sorry if I'm entirely misunderstanding the issue or these are ineffective tests.
Thought process 1: If I can tank my acc on 1 nondark element of impact, if the acc is based off of the debuff element, it should cause noticeable resists, causing all debuffs to wear more quickly and getting a decently solid disproof that the magic acc is spell element based in a smallish sample size.
which seemed faster than: find a target that gives me acc issues on all elements, and then cast impact on it hundreds of times wearing thunder magic acc staff/chatoyant staff/dark magic acc(which would cause issues because impact has a dark based debuff (lower-chr) and possibly give false results)/possibly apollos? and compare results
If that is wrong logic, or has already been done, please let me know, would save me tons of time. I had been thinking my next test would be to go to PvP and possibly try some casts against someone using barfira/fire carol/resist gear (taking into account as much as I can that PvP has growing Resistance to debuffs).
I'm sorry if I'm entirely misunderstanding the issue or these are ineffective tests.
Sounds reasonable. I've got a spellcast file set up to automatically cycle through Absorb spells while maintaining buffs and sleep, should achieve basically the same result. RDM/DRK should have uncapped dark magic hitrate vs level 105ish monsters in the tree. Just waiting for my test server client to finish updating.
Elementals are immune to debuffs of the same element, so that's how you test resistance element. I can run a test after I finish these magian trials though. If you're worried about general resistance affecting the results, you can ES the spell.
EX: Casting Absorb-STR against a water elemental, despite the fact that STR debuff itself is a water status effect element, landed because the resistance element is dark. Casting this against dark elements should always resist because the resist element is dark.
EX: Casting Absorb-STR against a water elemental, despite the fact that STR debuff itself is a water status effect element, landed because the resistance element is dark. Casting this against dark elements should always resist because the resist element is dark.
Dark elemental in legion, just stun gear(inc thunder magian staff) +twilight cloak basically.
Edit: more soon, just figured I would take advantage of the opportunity.
Edit: more soon, just figured I would take advantage of the opportunity.
If the elemental works the same as NQ elementals, that's evidence that the resist element is not dark.
Edit: Once I finish augmenting stuff for someone and grab some geodes, I'll hit the test server and complete the test for this spell quickly.
Edit: Once I finish augmenting stuff for someone and grab some geodes, I'll hit the test server and complete the test for this spell quickly.
Cool, would be interested to know. Unfortunately the other eles we got today were during times I couldn't run and cast on them.
Impact's debuff is elementless: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110245-Debuff-Elemental-Affinity?p=5454043&viewfull=1#post5454043
I was able to land Impact's debuff until ~5% for the Mantis, so not too worried myself.
I was able to land Impact's debuff until ~5% for the Mantis, so not too worried myself.
It seems more likely to me that impact's debuffs simply can't completely resist. Based on your pictures it looks(I can't tell 100% for most of them) like you got the full 3minute duration on all of the elements except dark, which lasted 10 seconds. It seems strange that people(you and I) getting consistently unresisted Impacts would both get 10 second impacts on dark elementals.
Edit: going to go test this idea
Edit: going to go test this idea
If you look at the first Impact (The one where the elemental used Absorb CHR), the debuff lasted 90s, so the 10s duration isn't consistent. However, you may still have a point because the durations seen are a bit imprecise. From my RDM Empyrean tests here, the TimeStamp period is slightly imprecise and we don't know the lag between damage appearing, damage done, and additional effect landing. If we use ~2s correction:
~11.25s Duration (What you said was the 10s duration; would show as 12s duration)
~90s Duration (The Absorb-CHR Elemental)
180s Duration (Unresisted)
11.25/180 = 1/16
90/180 = 1/2
Remember that 1/8 is the highest resist without SDT involvement. Once a mob has an SDT to a given element, we see that the mob can resist to 1/16 (This is typically seen of elementals actually). Thus, we're likely dealing with an SDT. I'll redo an ES Impact test using mob magic accuracy and see if I can even hit the full duration.
~11.25s Duration (What you said was the 10s duration; would show as 12s duration)
~90s Duration (The Absorb-CHR Elemental)
180s Duration (Unresisted)
11.25/180 = 1/16
90/180 = 1/2
Remember that 1/8 is the highest resist without SDT involvement. Once a mob has an SDT to a given element, we see that the mob can resist to 1/16 (This is typically seen of elementals actually). Thus, we're likely dealing with an SDT. I'll redo an ES Impact test using mob magic accuracy and see if I can even hit the full duration.
That was exactly what I was otw to go do myself.
Edit: At least, I'm pretty sure that's what I'm about to go do.
Edit: At least, I'm pretty sure that's what I'm about to go do.
Redid the test and the duration was 90s. As you said, the effect is unresisted like Dia/Bio, but the duration is subject to resist as a Dark Resist Element.
New image of full ES > Cast > Effect wearing within the same folder.
New image of full ES > Cast > Effect wearing within the same folder.
[+]
Yugl and I each did tests and talked in game.
Conclusion: Impact's debuff is affected by darkness accuracy.
Side conclusion based on a resist I got(and all other damages observed so far but 1 in particular stood out to me): a resist in damage might have the same resist in duration. (That is to say a 1/2 resist impact dmg wise will only last a minute and a half.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sovietspacedogs/33904204/30862/30862_original.png
Edit: Beaten!
Conclusion: Impact's debuff is affected by darkness accuracy.
Side conclusion based on a resist I got(and all other damages observed so far but 1 in particular stood out to me): a resist in damage might have the same resist in duration. (That is to say a 1/2 resist impact dmg wise will only last a minute and a half.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sovietspacedogs/33904204/30862/30862_original.png
Edit: Beaten!
[+]
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