Everyone that comes to legion on RNG should be using the best ammunition available for TP and WS, or at least I would hope that they are.
But really what I was getting at with the parse results, after a 30 minute run I generally average 20+ more shots then the next ranger with the exception of only 3 people. And in the most extreme case, it was around 60 shots. No deaths, everyone using snapshot equipment macros etc.
*Edit* at Byrth, Orichalcum bullets are terrible for RNG TP and weaponskill unless we're talking wildfire. RNGs should be using Adaman bullets and Gargouille arrows.
Is A Mythic Even Feasible Anymore For A Newbie?
Is a Mythic even feasible anymore for a newbie?
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Oh whatever, Ryunohige is the only Polearm that lets DRG be a competitive with the other 2H jobs.
Top Tier: Kogarasumune SAM, Ragnarok DRK, Ukonvasara WAR, Ryunohige DRG
Second tier would be something like: Amano/Masamune SAM, Conqueror WAR, Sphara/Verth MNK
Third Tier would be: Apocalypse DRK, Ragnarok WAR
Fourth Tier: Starts to include Magians GSs and other R/Ex options, also included Gungnir
Fifth Tier: Rhongo and 1H jobs
That's how large the gap between Gungnir and Ryunohige is.
Top Tier: Kogarasumune SAM, Ragnarok DRK, Ukonvasara WAR, Ryunohige DRG
Second tier would be something like: Amano/Masamune SAM, Conqueror WAR, Sphara/Verth MNK
Third Tier would be: Apocalypse DRK, Ragnarok WAR
Fourth Tier: Starts to include Magians GSs and other R/Ex options, also included Gungnir
Fifth Tier: Rhongo and 1H jobs
That's how large the gap between Gungnir and Ryunohige is.
Rag WAR is definitely not third tier...Ukon/masa sam/relic mnk beating rag? Your whole list is laughable.
Valefor.Sapphire said: »
On my server i've seen more than a couple annihilator rngs drop down to dark adaman/orich/steel bullets when they arent sqeezing off barrage/ws which has gotta create some noticable discrepancy in a parse. I die inside when I see an anni rng with cheap ammo.
All gear being close to equal, someone is cutting corners on ammo or food. That or they need to press their RA macro faster...
All gear being close to equal, someone is cutting corners on ammo or food. That or they need to press their RA macro faster...
This is a good summary of why some Rangers parse low in my opinion. Could not agree more on the Ammo part.
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Are you trying to suggest that BLU CDC averages higher than MNK smite?
With Impetus up? Absolutely not. During the 40% that it's down, we'll see in a bit when I finish this.
Asura.Hotsoups said: »
Everyone that comes to legion on RNG should be using the best ammunition available for TP and WS, or at least I would hope that they are.
But really what I was getting at with the parse results, after a 30 minute run I generally average 20+ more shots then the next ranger with the exception of only 3 people. And in the most extreme case, it was around 60 shots. No deaths, everyone using snapshot equipment macros etc.
*Edit* at Byrth, Orichalcum bullets are terrible for RNG TP and weaponskill unless we're talking wildfire. RNGs should be using Adaman bullets and Gargouille arrows.
But really what I was getting at with the parse results, after a 30 minute run I generally average 20+ more shots then the next ranger with the exception of only 3 people. And in the most extreme case, it was around 60 shots. No deaths, everyone using snapshot equipment macros etc.
*Edit* at Byrth, Orichalcum bullets are terrible for RNG TP and weaponskill unless we're talking wildfire. RNGs should be using Adaman bullets and Gargouille arrows.
and adaman bolts! i need to find someone to synergy them for me ;; i dont have the drive to lvl mine
[+]
I'm sorry Hohenheim ; ; Adaman bolts too ; ;
You Gastraphetes owner you :P
*Edit* Is that a Qiqirin riding a Karakul? lol that's awesome xD
You Gastraphetes owner you :P
*Edit* Is that a Qiqirin riding a Karakul? lol that's awesome xD
Ragnarok WAR without Mighty Strikes, I could see being 3rd tier. With Mighty Strikes, it jumps up to top tier, and others drop down based on their respective 2hr.
Sorry, I meant Adaman.
Ragnarok WAR isn't competitive unless you're getting an absolute ton of attack buffs. I should know, considering I have one. We rotate 2 Daurds and have CORs in Mul (5 Minuets + Chaos), I use RCBs, I stagger Berserk/Warcry and have all the enhancing pieces, and DRKs average higher Resolutions than me despite using very similar WS gear. Hit rate isn't an issue (we're also getting a Madrigal), so that indicates that I'm still not Ratio capped (at least as often as they are). With MS under these conditions, it does very well. 9.5k MS-Resolution on Morta after our Daurd BRD got white and SV minuet'ed us.
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
Ragnarok WAR isn't competitive unless you're getting an absolute ton of attack buffs. I should know, considering I have one. We rotate 2 Daurds and have CORs in Mul (5 Minuets + Chaos), I use RCBs, I stagger Berserk/Warcry and have all the enhancing pieces, and DRKs average higher Resolutions than me despite using very similar WS gear. Hit rate isn't an issue (we're also getting a Madrigal), so that indicates that I'm still not Ratio capped (at least as often as they are). With MS under these conditions, it does very well. 9.5k MS-Resolution on Morta after our Daurd BRD got white and SV minuet'ed us.
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
[+]
Aeyela said: »
Valefor.Sapphire said: »
On my server i've seen more than a couple annihilator rngs drop down to dark adaman/orich/steel bullets when they arent sqeezing off barrage/ws which has gotta create some noticable discrepancy in a parse. I die inside when I see an anni rng with cheap ammo.
All gear being close to equal, someone is cutting corners on ammo or food. That or they need to press their RA macro faster...
All gear being close to equal, someone is cutting corners on ammo or food. That or they need to press their RA macro faster...
This is a good summary of why some Rangers parse low in my opinion. Could not agree more on the Ammo part.
To be honest, it's only a problem if you're losing. If you're losing and they're still shooting slowly and/or with bad ammo then I'd get on them, but if you're winning and they don't have to throw away more money then nbd.
-Edit Oh yes, I agree with Sapphire. I drop down an ammo tier for tp phase, but I might re-think that if I invested 150 mil into a relic rather than just my Gandiva.
Sylph.Decimus said: »
To be honest, it's only a problem if you're losing. If you're losing and they're still shooting slowly and/or with bad ammo then I'd get on them, but if you're winning and they don't have to throw away more money then nbd.
I'm not too bothered about how other people play, certainly not enough to tell them the reasons why without being asked... But if there's a reason some Rangers are parsing lower than they should be, I think Sapphire summed it up very well!
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
What? Swapping BRDs is impossible in provenance? Lol, are you an idiot?
You shouldn't even be bringing a WAR with Rag unless you plan on zerging with Mighty Strikes and have maxed buffs, that is the whole *** point. Any other time you should be on DRK.
Avitori said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
What? Swapping BRDs is impossible in provenance? Lol, are you an idiot?
You shouldn't even be bringing a WAR with Rag unless you plan on zerging with Mighty Strikes and have maxed buffs, that is the whole *** point. Any other time you should be on DRK.
So you want to label a DD as top tier, even though it's only even close during it's 2h?
i'd think a fair comparison of weapons would assume capped attack because it's not that hard to bring appropriate buffs for the content you're doing
also i swap brds in provenance
also i swap brds in provenance
Avitori said: »
What? Swapping BRDs is impossible in provenance? Lol, are you an idiot?
You shouldn't even be bringing a WAR with Rag unless you plan on zerging with Mighty Strikes and have maxed buffs, that is the whole *** point. Any other time you should be on DRK.
You shouldn't even be bringing a WAR with Rag unless you plan on zerging with Mighty Strikes and have maxed buffs, that is the whole *** point. Any other time you should be on DRK.
I was not convinced of the legitimacy of your statement but that '***' won me over.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
i'd think a fair comparison of weapons would assume capped attack because it's not that hard to bring appropriate buffs for the content you're doing
also i swap brds in provenance
also i swap brds in provenance
Yes, considering using it on WAR any other time is stupid.
I think that the list was meant to mean "Non-MS Ragnarok WAR is third tier."
Ramuh.Austar said: »
well you're also half the alliance, and not in a pickup. which is obviously what Byrth was talking about.
if you're doing prov with 1 minuet and 1 madrigal you may as well switch to sam, kill soboro nm while they're gathering, and fulltime your war's 5/5 phorcys while spamming shoha because ws that rely more heavily on attack just don't cut it
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
well you're also half the alliance, and not in a pickup. which is obviously what Byrth was talking about.
if you're doing prov with 1 minuet and 1 madrigal you may as well switch to sam, kill soboro nm while they're gathering, and fulltime your war's 5/5 phorcys while spamming shoha because ws that rely more heavily on attack just don't cut it
I'm talking about your average derpaderp pickup party where you ask for Mins and get Minnes. Where people insist bards use /inv because they don't know how to use /pcmd add.
If I'm in a shout event, I expect that about 5 players will know what they're doing, they won't be the bards, and I should be using my 99 Ukon because Ragnarok is really just not competitive without ungodly high attack (and probably also a crit rate penalty).
If I'm in a shout event, I expect that about 5 players will know what they're doing, they won't be the bards, and I should be using my 99 Ukon because Ragnarok is really just not competitive without ungodly high attack (and probably also a crit rate penalty).
[+]
I don't understand what isn't being understood here. Without buffs up the ***, a WAR with Ragnarok isn't top tier. Ukon WAR, Rag DRK, Koga SAM and Ryu DRG hold that title. When the buff situation changes, some jobs/weapon-combos are complimented better and the tier rating changes.
Quote:
I don't understand what isn't being understood here. Without buffs up the ***, a WAR with Ragnarok isn't top tier. Ukon WAR, Rag DRK, Koga SAM and Ryu DRG hold that title. When the buff situation changes, some jobs/weapon-combos are complimented better and the tier rating changes.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Ragnarok WAR isn't competitive unless you're getting an absolute ton of attack buffs. I should know, considering I have one. We rotate 2 Daurds and have CORs in Mul (5 Minuets + Chaos), I use RCBs, I stagger Berserk/Warcry and have all the enhancing pieces, and DRKs average higher Resolutions than me despite using very similar WS gear. Hit rate isn't an issue (we're also getting a Madrigal), so that indicates that I'm still not Ratio capped (at least as often as they are). With MS under these conditions, it does very well. 9.5k MS-Resolution on Morta after our Daurd BRD got white and SV minuet'ed us.
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
In an event like Provenance where I have two derpaderp bards, neither of which have Daurd, and we're getting one Madrigal/Minuet because Acc is hard to get and swapping bards is impossible, Ragnarok WAR is definitely third tier.
Do your DRKs use souleater at all? If they do, that would explain the slightly higher average.
I agree with the rest. Ragna WAR is not suited for something like PW chambers with a pickup group, where you're getting minimal buffs, but Ryu will also suffer greatly from this, knocking it down a few pegs as well.
As for your tier rankings, not sure if that was based on pickup VW groups only, but there are certainly times when Rag and Conq are top tier for WAR and certainly times Koga and Ryu are knocked down to 2nd or even 3rd tier when buffs aren't in their favor.
I'd love it if my server was only filled with competent players, but it just isn't. Instead we have 10 Daurds registered on FFXIAH. My social has 2 of them, but the best part of SE's shout-alliance content is that your friends can ditch the event once they've capped out without guilt. I can't bug them to come along so that my Ragnarok (which I still probably wouldn't use) could be slightly more competitive with my Ukon.
Ragnarok has 27 Daurds
Leviathan has 21 Daurds
Re:Ejiin
The DRKs do use Souleater, but only one of them was ever in the party with me when I was using 5/5 Savagery Warcry (with AF2+2 head), which should have been a decent boost to WS damage.
I really wasn't sure where to put Conqueror given the recent tests. I still have no feel for how competitive Upheaval is. But yeah, I was just trying to give a general guide. Out of curiosity, what buff situation would lower Koga?
Ragnarok has 27 Daurds
Leviathan has 21 Daurds
Re:Ejiin
The DRKs do use Souleater, but only one of them was ever in the party with me when I was using 5/5 Savagery Warcry (with AF2+2 head), which should have been a decent boost to WS damage.
I really wasn't sure where to put Conqueror given the recent tests. I still have no feel for how competitive Upheaval is. But yeah, I was just trying to give a general guide. Out of curiosity, what buff situation would lower Koga?
You should still be rotating BRDs... If I saw a 2 song Provenance I would leave.
Although understandable, many people make the assumption that they are capped when they aren't. It's good to have a clear perspective what a weapon and job are capable of without maximum efficiency being met. Byrth's tier list is based on non-optimal situations, which is reality for more people than optimum is.
Avitori said: »
You should still be rotating BRDs... If I saw a 2 song Provenance I would leave.
It's not uncommon on our server for the starting chambers. People use Embrava + Haste for the Caturae (lock Tabula) and then sing minuet + madrigal. Sometimes they don't try to swap bards. Sometimes they do try to swap bards and the party leader/bards are so terrible at it that we either don't get a second set of songs before the caturae are agroed or we don't get them Troub'd.
Two provenance groups ago, my alliance did try to swap bards but one of the bards was so terrible that he apparently didn't have Nightingale merits and couldn't wrap his brain around the idea of bard swapping at all, which held it up/wasted buffs/meant we didn't get troub songs. Then, the Scholar that was supposed to be locking TR was so bad at it that we didn't have Embrava for part of the first chamber (no Perpetuance) or the third chamber (because TR ran out). We ended up getting Marches (in the party with the non-HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE bard) about half the time and no songs (in the party with the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE bard).
We won, but it was ugly.
[+]
Byrth really is not exagerrating. Lakshmi is awful for just about anything PUG - and shouts take an age to fill up.
I don't understand how switching parties is so hard /facepalm.
Guess there are more idiots that play than originally thought.
Guess there are more idiots that play than originally thought.
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