Cars N' Junk

I'm not sure I get the argument going on...if it is the notion that certain mid-sized lines of cars can be tuned (via JDM tuning, body modifications, etc.) to outperform certain stock "halo-cars"/supercars for less money by comparison, then that goes without saying no?

But the point of the supercar line of product is to appeal to the big-spender/image-conscious type in the first place isn't it? To that end, if you have a buyer for a supercar, they would likely have the means to tune that vehicle as well. There exist body kits and performance tuning kits for Corvettes and Ferraris, so the point is kind of moot no?

Or maybe I didn't quite follow.

Weight is a huge factor into cars. If you watched the evo x vs the gt-r you have seen that the lighter car won in handling, but the bigger car won over-all.

While not a corvette, I used to love my 97 firebird formula. And my brother had a 97 trans am that I have driven. It is more or less a 'vette with a sexier body. I will flat out tell you, yes your ricer win in terms of cost, but get wrecked in the real racing world. The only thing that ever went toe to toe with me was an S200 I met, and even then he couldn't keep up. This is from a car I got for $3k and put maybe 3,500 worth of work into.

Nissan and Honda are the only two who even have any kind of pedigree. Mistubishi is a total joke, they have honestly never done anything outside of an evo, which is still a joke when you take it out of its comfort zone of other imports. Toss it against euros in the same price bracket and it gets whomped (mini cooper, cheaper porches, bmw), toss it against anything bigger and you will get the living ***kicked out of it.

I'm not saying it isn't a nice car, but it is like saying that a mazda is worth something. Sure a Speed3/6 is a blast to drive, but it wont compete when it comes to pedigree.

Aston Martin and GM are the kings of le mans, even chrystler takes a piece of that with the viper. Honda basically owns IZOD engines.

Corvette isn't paying for a name, it is paying for a true muscle. You can find a cheap running 'vette for under 30, toss that same 20k at it and have a beast.

I'm just saying if you want real performance value you don't buy a Vette. If you want a historic brand with good performance the Vette is a great car. Im a chevy fan mind you 67 Camaro is one of my all time faves.

@ Schutz Couldn't have said it better.


Also anyone else find it amusing that the fastest car in Europe is a 1987 Trans Am?

I understand weights value in racing lol I was saying I dont understand how it factored into this conversation about cost/performance. Also you're high off your *** thinking a trans am or firebrid can keep up with a built B18C1 civic lmao. Not only will it kill you in the quarter running 10's it will laugh at you in the corners. The Honda S2000 isn't even a fast car lmao not even close do some research before you bring the lol Trans Am (not even WS6 no less) and Firebird into the convo.

I think this

Is a hell of a lot sexier than this

Also can someone please tell me what those holes are in the rear bumper? I see them on civics around here and they look atrocious.

Honda S2000 performance tid bit

0-60 6.4 seconds
1/4 mile 14.4 seconds

If thats your idea of a fast car you dont belong in this conversation.

I wont argue style but style isnt an aspect of performance. The holes are to reduce drag from the rear bumper.

That's a bad sentiment considering that the S2000 was Honda's last hurrah before becoming the daily ****box maker it is today.


EDIT: And that's pretty quick for what was designed as an economical sports car like the Miata, still pretty quick by today's standards.

Standard C6 4200 lbs
Z06 3800 lbs
Z-R1 3324 lbs

Seeing as I ran 10~11 quarters while staying within your cheapshit range, pretty sure I have a right to bring in my formula. The LT4 was nothing to laugh at, though it is no LS9. Muscle has always been at the top of quarters, so even talking about a civic is a joke.

And seeing as the S200 has one of the best power to weight ratios ever made (the thing it was praised for), I'm pretty sure that is a wonderful example.

You talk as if you have never driven anything but a prius. Next thing you're going to praise the glory of an inline 6 BMW or the greatness of a ford mustang gt.

Way to bring up stock numbers when you have been talking about suped up civics.

Why would I use aftermarket performance numbers for the car I don't like?

I already said in the LOL thread that this either needs to be a game of stock vs stock or mod vs mod. I can make my Tahoe outrun quite a few cars in this thread with proper mods if they were stock. Aftermarket kits make for skewed comparisons.

Many cars get super fast with proper modding. When I brought up the Vettes originally, I was talking about a bone stock car. For $50k, you can get one hell of a nice car that will do 190mph with as many features as most cars 4-5x its cost. I also stated that for $60k, you can get a new bone stock GT-R that has near Z-R1 level performance for half the cost. That is rather impressive. If you want a Lambo or Ferrari in the same performance class, you'd spend well into the $150k+ range. Aston Martin, BMW, Porsche, etc much much more expensive for that kind of performance.

(mini cooper, cheaper porches, bmw), CHEAPER PORCHE!?!??!?!? when u get cars and construction mixxed?

Oh btw, an old HS buddy of mine had a very suped up SVT Focus hatch. It would scare the crap out of you and we legitimately fast, however it can't hold a candle in any serious road race vs my Dad's stock 2011 Grand Sport. Actually, in a straight line, his '69 Camaro would beat it.

LOL

The 1997 Firehawk LT4 model, made by SLP Performance Parts and sold through Pontiac dealerships, had 330 hp (243 kW) and 340 ft·lbf (459 Nm) of torque.

Running from 1993-2002, the last Firebird generation continued the age-old tradition of performance and style above all else. Initially only a coupe body style was offered in base, Formula and Trans Am trims, the former coming with a 3.4-liter V6 (160 hp) and the latter pair with an "LT1" 5.7-liter V8 (275 hp). Transmission choices included a five-speed manual (V6), a six-speed manual (V8) and a four-speed automatic.

The following year saw the return of the Firebird convertible, while 1995 brought a 3.8-liter, 200-hp V6 for the base Firebird. For 1996, the V8 made 285 hp and Ram Air induction returned for that engine, boosting output to 305 hp.

A midcycle refresh took place for 1998 with a new front-end look and powerful new "LS-1" 5.7-liter V8s that made 305 hp or 320 hp (with Ram Air). Apart from minor trim differences and a bump in power to 310 hp for the V8 in 2001, the Firebird soldiered through 2002 mostly unchanged.

Yeah totally a 10 second car. GTFO lol.

*Anxiously awaiting a mid-engine C7*

Would put any doubt to rest.

can we all get together and smoke a bong or few....

Me no smoke, but I'll play some COD or Ghost Recon, or cruise to some beats w/ ya.

you cant keeep up with my minivan! with your little supppped up whip

Did you really bring the SVT Ford Focus into this... OK you asked for it.

Ford SVT Focus
JANUARY 2002 BY TONY SWAN
VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 3-door sedan

BASE PRICE: $17,995

ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 16-valve 4-in-line, iron block and aluminum head, Ford EEC-V engine-control system with port fuel injection

Displacement: 121 cu in, 1988cc
Power (SAE net): 170 bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 145 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase:103.0 in Length: 168.1 in Width: 66.9 in Height: 56.3 in
Curb weight: 2800 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 7.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 25.0 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 16.0 sec @ 88 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 125 mph

Go to any local drag strip and see what the vast majority of cars in street class are.

TAs and Camaros with big blocks. Lots and lots of 9 sec cars.

It was modded, but thank you for your Wiki help.

I guess what we have here is misconception of what fast is lol. When I say fast I'm talking about high 10's low 11's on street tires. Not 15's. Im talking about cars that give steet bikes a run for their money not Harley Davidsons.

Speaking of your precious B18C1 engine


So whats your point in quoting stock numbers?

It would take 10-20k worth of mods to get a SVT Focus into the 10-11 second range. My brother had a burnt orange one, it handled really well but it wasn't what I consider fast.

My point on the firebird is the guy said he only put 3-3.5k into it. You cant turn that into a 10 second car for 3-3.5k

With a bit of exaggeration I imagine. But there's a golden rule for american muscle. 20K to get under a 10s car with Ford and Chrysler, 10k for GM. For 3.5k, I can believe he got it into the high 11s.

This is what I think of when I think Corvette