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Dark Souls & other Souls-Likes
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-20 18:42:15
Leviathan.Tarantio said: »I've only played the Xbox 360 version. Absolutely loved it. Steep learning curve but once you get it down the game is weak sauce. Will still kick you in the nuts if you don't pay attention! Like I did the other night... Kicked off a cliff, goodbye 297k souls >.<
Been searching for Demon Souls (recently bought a PS3 for all the exclusive RPG's) & I heard Demon Souls was more difficult than Dark so that piqued my interest. No joy yet though :(
I think Dark Souls is harder overall. Demon's is less balanced and the AI is inferior, though it's far from an easy game. Expect to find 1-4, 3-1, 2-2 boss, 3-2 boss (HATRED), 4-2 and 5-2 particularly challenging first time through. 4-1 is very hard if you are not great early on and 3-3 boss can in theory be the hardest in both games (you'll see why when you get there, such a cool idea).
In Dark Souls, I have fallen in love with the Great Scythe recently. Such flexibility and power!
 Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-12-20 19:04:47
I found 3-2 to be pretty easy after the Gargoyles. I was only annoyed because there were long periods of not being able to touch them. :|
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-12-20 19:45:31
You can't kill the crow. You'll get it to 1 HP and then it'll fly away and be invincible.
Quetzalcoatl.Avee
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14
By Quetzalcoatl.Avee 2012-12-20 20:03:35
Tough call I think Demon souls is harder, don't forget you don't have bonfires in demon souls, you fail a level you have to clear it again. love them both though :)
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-12-20 20:11:02
nvm, was answered above.
Carbuncle.Aeonknight
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 155
By Carbuncle.Aeonknight 2012-12-20 20:31:13
Quetzalcoatl.Avee said: »Tough call I think Demon souls is harder, don't forget you don't have bonfires in demon souls, you fail a level you have to clear it again. love them both though :) Hmm dunno. Demon's Souls did have easier access to healing items, including the full HP healing ones. MP items too for spell spamming.
Dark Souls you're stuck with limited spell charges and the healing items can't be bought in large quantities (but can be farmed.)
Although the access to short cuts does make it easier to get around levels... but so did the warps that seperate each portion of the levels in Demon's Souls.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-20 20:54:12
Quetzalcoatl.Avee said: »Tough call I think Demon souls is harder, don't forget you don't have bonfires in demon souls, you fail a level you have to clear it again. love them both though :)
As mentioned above though, you can just spam healing and MP items. Magic in particular trivialises the majority of Demon's Souls PvE. There is no boss who is supposed to be SUPER HARD like Gwyn and Manus/Kalameet are in Dark Souls (whether they are or not is up to debate, but they are designed to be end bosses. False King in 1-4 is the closest Demon's has, as the final fight is basically a walkover and designed as such).
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-12-20 21:01:00
False King was the hardest boss in Demon's Souls followed by Flamelurker. Both were pretty easy compared to Artorias, Manus, Kalameet and Gwyn when not parrying him to death.
Dragon God is infinitely less annoying than Bed of Chaos too.
Tougher (but not hard, besides Skirvir) Black Phantom NPCs, tighter parry/back stab timing/positioning and Valley of Defilement being more annoying than Blight Town is the only thing going for Demon's Souls difficulty compared to Dark Souls as far as I'm concerned
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-20 21:08:03
You get a bit more "crazy" stuff too - the weapon enchants in Demon's Souls are ABSOLUTELY CRAZY in power; Dark Silver Shield is ONE HELL OF A SHIELD, and the game hands you very powerful weaponry out early on (if you know where to look for it granted, that sword in 4-1 etc). Dark Souls gives you a Lightning Spear for free, but aside from that...
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-12-20 21:10:55
Dat Crescent Falchion. :|
White Sticky Stuff *snicker* is also obscenely powerful. As are Cursed Weapon and Light Weapon. Not to mention Firestorm can OHKO nearly every boss in the game.
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Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-20 21:14:20
Yeah, that was the one!
It's basically a lot less balanced and I prefer Dark Souls vastly in that category (hell, even PvP wise I think Dark Souls balance wise since the DWGR and elemental weapons nerfs has been superb, with lag being the only issue with respect to backstabs). Dark Magic is a bit too strong but nothing compared to DeS magic.
I love both games to death and consider them both some of the finest games ever made, but DeS feels very much like a "test run" to me, with Dark Souls as the "finished version".
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-12-20 22:11:02
Why Dark Souls 2 has me worried (but also excited)
Written By Matt Sainsbury on Saturday, December 8, 2012 | 21:00
One of the big announcements in the games industry in recent weeks has got to be the existence of Dark Souls II. A sequel to a game that has got to have one of the most fanatical and loyal fan bases, Dark Souls II is promising more of the same from the first game. When the first game was almost unique in its genius level design and new-age difficulty, the promise of more of the same is something to get excited about.
But.
Before I get flamed for what I’m about to write, I will just say this – I have been a fan of the Souls series before it was the Souls series. Before Dark Souls, and Demon’s Souls before it was the King’s Field games, I've played them all, and I’ve loved the entire series for its brilliant reworking of the Gothic myths and storytelling style for the games platform.
But I am concerned by Dark Souls II. I don’t doubt that it’s going to be a good game, but I worry market pressures and From Software’s own track record with sequels means that Dark Souls II is the first sign that the creativity of the series is slipping.
The first concern I have is with the title itself. Dark Souls II implies that this is not going to be a break from the previous game. Sequels (aside from the oddballs like Final Fantasy) aim for a consistency across the experience – or to put it another way once you’ve won over the fans, you don’t want to upset them with the sequels. One of the great wins for Kings Field to Demon’s Souls to Dark Souls is that, despite belonging to the same franchise, the naming conventions meant the developers were not tied down as much; they could be freer in terms of creativity because they did not have the same perceived legacy to live up to. And so King’s Field games were fundamentally different to Demon’s Souls, which was a different game by comparison to Dark Souls. Dark Souls II is going to be more constrained by its very name, and I worry that’s going to inhibit the franchise’s main advantage – its unique mythologies and creativity with them.
But more than that, the name of the game worries me in the sense of the commercial realities behind it. Demon’s Souls was a sleeper hit. Dark Souls was a genuine commercial success, and so the money behind Dark Souls II is going to be significant. On the one hand this is good, as it gives the developers greater resources to make things bigger and more spectacular. On the other, the commercial pressure on this game to sell a bucketload to turn a profit could lead to some concessions, and concessions has never been what the Souls franchise has been about. Do the developers tone down the game’s themes? Already Dark Souls was thematically “lighter” than Demon’s Souls, so does Dark Souls II take another step towards a generic fantasy setting, rather than a claustrophobic Gothic horror? Do the developers make the game easier – more accessible, to draw more players in?
Perhaps not, but I would not be surprised if there are some significant compromises made with this game. It’s almost impossible for a cult classic franchise to become a mainstream one without compromises, and the sales expectations for Dark Souls II are likely to be similar to the sales expectations for a mainstream major release.
I also worry that From Software has a tradition of driving its franchises into the dirt, and this might be what’s happening with the Souls games. The Armored Core games are the Tony Hawk Pro Skater of the Mech games. The predecessors to the Souls games, the King’s Field games, suffered from a gradual erosion of creativity which coincided with the series’ increasingly weak commercial and critical performance.
One has to wonder – what else can be added to Dark Souls? The game was perfectly self-contained, and I would argue that From Software does not need to add anything to the game's mythology. Revisiting it is nice in theory, but again, creativity has always been the key to the success of these games, and I question whether “more of the same” is the kind of creativity we actually want from From Software.
I really hope I’m proven wrong with these concerns, as the Souls games have almost singlehandedly maintained my faith that the games industry is still capable of producing original, brilliant games beyond the indie developers. I’m going to be following the development of this game very closely indeed.
Earlier this month I wrote about my concerns with the announced Dark Souls 2. From the early reports and rumours, it would seem that my concerns are justified.
The first red flag is that the team making Dark Souls 2 is significantly larger than the team that made Dark Souls. “From Software has nearly doubled the internal team focused on world creation alone,” an Edge report claims.
On the surface this might sound like a good thing, right? More resources means a bigger, better game. The problem is that it also means a game that needs to sell more copies to even break even. The constant pressure on a game with those kinds of sales expectations is to find ways to sell to more people. In marketing speak that typically translates into “more accessible gameplay.” To gamers that means “compromised vision for $$$s.”
And given that there’s apparently vehicles in Dark Souls 2, there’s already a purity from the first game that is being compromised. Dark Souls did not need a chariot. Why does Dark Souls 2, if not to provide some “awesome” screenshots to feed the press or stick on the back of the box. Why are the developers talking about “improving the action of the game?” Part of the appeal of the combat of the Souls games in the past has been that the action is simple, but feels restrictive. This is not an action game series, and players are meant to feel like confrontation is a challenge, not something to be relished.
And lo and behold we have also got the new director of the Souls games, Tomohiro Shibuya, talking about making the game “accessible to players that haven’t picked up Dark Souls.” There seems to be some confusion on the meaning behind those words – and it would indeed seem like he’s simply pointing out that the goal is to make the game understandable to people who haven’t played the previous game. However Dark Souls has already found its way into the homes of anyone who is interested in difficult, dark, RPGs. The implication here is that From Software is chasing after an audience aside from the people that like difficult, dark, RPGs. They have to – they have got a bigger budget to exceed to break even after all – but what does this mean is going to happen to the game that Dark Souls fans fell in love with?
And I am saving the icing on the cake for the latest bit of news – Dark Souls 2 may well have paid DLC item storage. Yep, it looks like the realities of developing AAA-games have hit From Software’s pocket book.
(UPDATE: Good news. According to Siliconera, the initial report was misquoted, and that the DLC item storage thing is not going to happen. This is one less thing to worry about!)
The problem? Dark Souls, Demon's Souls and the King's Field games before those were never about compromise.
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 Bismarck.Narshee
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6994
By Bismarck.Narshee 2012-12-20 22:23:43
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-20 23:17:01
Vehicles? DO NOT WANT.
Improving action? Potentially do not want. One of the beautiful things about both games is how simple, and yet complex, it is.
You don't have to memorise combo strings. You don't have to learn dozens and dozens of attacks. You don't have to learn how to use flashy super moves. However - you must master the range and timings of a small range of attacks. You must master the use of a weapon until it becomes completely second nature and apply it in challenging situations.
That is what I've always liked about Dark Souls and wouldn't want it changed with a combo system or anything. It is all about "easy to pick up, hard to master" gameplay where the slight overestimation of range or underestimation of timing can cost you dearly.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-12-21 00:59:05
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Valefor.Umbra
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7
By Valefor.Umbra 2012-12-21 02:04:32
This news is all very disheartening. Top tier games are in such short supply these days...it would be a shame to lose another series due to "accessibility" issues.
That said, I thoroughly enjoyed Dark Souls and will continue to do so (picking up Demon's Souls soon and hoping for the best there as well).
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-12-21 02:20:07
My current build:
VIT will be bumped to 50 and DEX to 16 for level 100.
Weapons I swap between include: Gravelord Greatsword, Pike, Manserpent Greatsword, Butcher Knife and Zweihander.
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Bismarck.Narshee
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6994
By Bismarck.Narshee 2012-12-21 10:18:35
Is this Kirk guy's story explained? I don't appreciate him invading me. :(
 Leviathan.Tarantio
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18
By Leviathan.Tarantio 2012-12-21 10:28:05
Bahamut.Raenryong said: »Vehicles? DO NOT WANT.
Improving action? Potentially do not want. One of the beautiful things about both games is how simple, and yet complex, it is.
You don't have to memorise combo strings. You don't have to learn dozens and dozens of attacks. You don't have to learn how to use flashy super moves. However - you must master the range and timings of a small range of attacks. You must master the use of a weapon until it becomes completely second nature and apply it in challenging situations.
That is what I've always liked about Dark Souls and wouldn't want it changed with a combo system or anything. It is all about "easy to pick up, hard to master" gameplay where the slight overestimation of range or underestimation of timing can cost you dearly.
+1 this
Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2012-12-21 11:10:28
Dat Crescent Falchion. :|
White Sticky Stuff *snicker* is also obscenely powerful. As are Cursed Weapon and Light Weapon. Not to mention Firestorm can OHKO nearly every boss in the game. All the "Sticky White Stuff" messages infrount of Yuria (not sure on spelling) when you find her were the best part.
Bahamut.Raenryong said: »Vehicles? DO NOT WANT.
Improving action? Potentially do not want. One of the beautiful things about both games is how simple, and yet complex, it is.
You don't have to memorise combo strings. You don't have to learn dozens and dozens of attacks. You don't have to learn how to use flashy super moves. However - you must master the range and timings of a small range of attacks. You must master the use of a weapon until it becomes completely second nature and apply it in challenging situations.
That is what I've always liked about Dark Souls and wouldn't want it changed with a combo system or anything. It is all about "easy to pick up, hard to master" gameplay where the slight overestimation of range or underestimation of timing can cost you dearly. It's worth noting that Dark/Demon souls has one of the more realistic combats around... Flashing swordwork is pritty and all but not all that useful since most games a person would tire very quickly from what they give us. Footwork, posistioning and ending it quickly once past your opponents guard are the most important things, which is how it is for Souls. Even a couple weak enemies can be dangerous if your not carful and fight on their terms rather than yours and give them an opening.
Bismarck.Narshee
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6994
By Bismarck.Narshee 2012-12-21 11:18:52
Yuria wasn't cute or hot -.- I don't understand all the love for her.
Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2012-12-21 11:20:10
I think there were only 3 women in the nexas and she was the only viable one.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2012-12-21 11:44:48
Amazing Chest Ahead
Leviathan.Tarantio
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18
By Leviathan.Tarantio 2012-12-21 11:50:47
Bahamut.Raenryong said: »Amazing Chest Ahead Lol! I seen that everywhere @ Blighttown boss, I was intrigued then I seen the Cutscene >.>
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[b]Gamertag List:[/b]
[skydrive]<iframe width="1023" height="500" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" src="https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=4BA986080B073EE0&resid=4BA986080B073EE0%21119&authkey=ADjo0JujUjKd4vs&em=2"></iframe>[/skydrive] You are allowed to make anonymous edits. Please be respectful and only edit the workbook if you intend to add yourself to the list. This is not a universal member name > gamertag list for entire site. Only list your name if you own Bloodborne, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls I, Dark Souls II, or Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin, or plan to, this way members of the site can coordinate playing together, matchmaking, etc.
After you click the link, the only thing you'll need to do is click "EDIT IN BROWSER", then add your FORUM name, then the gamertag/username for the platform you play the game on. Please do not copy and paste a cell, this will cause borders to look weird and I'll have to open it up to fix it.
This thread was created, by request, to promote discussion of Dark Souls. I'll be updating the OP with various resources, video links, upcoming news, character builds, PvP matching, and so on as users post.
| Xbox 360 | PS3 | PC |
|---|
| FFXIAH | Account | FFXIAH | Account | FFXIAH | Account |
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| Kalila | ScarletPumpkin | Tikal | Solrokr | Prothescar | Prothescar |
| Domz | Dom of Italy | Wolfjorg | bamaboy7320 | Raenil | Raenil Tilgung |
| Urial | Omja Sniper | Raenil | Dreizak | Ina | Tedder12 |
| | Ina | Tedder12 | Urial | Omja Sniper |
| | Moonlightespada | MithraOhji | | |
| | Dracondria | Raxxon | | |
| | Aeonknight | Aeonknight87 | | |
| | Urial | OmjaSniper | | |
| | Narshee | Feisty1224 | | |
| | Valmur | AtmosKoS | | |
| | Kunimatsu | Robthebob1989 | | |
Resources
Videos
News
| July 14, 2012 - Dark Souls for PC Will Use GFWL After All
June 20, 2012 - Dark Souls discounted to under $30 on Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
June 12, 2012 - Localising Dark Souls
June 7, 2012 - Dark Souls: PC version will have "minimal mouse and keyboard support," uses Games for Windows Live "to provide game as soon as possible."
June 7, 2012 - From Software "having a tough time" porting Dark Souls to PC, frame rate issues remain
May 31, 2012 - Dark Souls PC coming to Steam, consoles to get PC content
April 12, 2012 - Gamers rallying against Dark Souls PC using Games for Windows Live
April 7, 2012 - Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition coming to PC in August
January 13, 2012 - Dark Souls PC petition at nearly 70,000 signatures, Namco listening
Jan 8th, 2012 - Dark Souls admin suggests PC could happen with a petition |
Character Builds
Character builds can be either PvP, PvE, or both. You can specify which if you wish, but I'll be listing any builds posted in this topic here. Use the Dark Souls Character Planner linked above to create a link to your build for others to view.
Dark Souls Map
New ContentNew Bosses - Including Artorias of Abyss, Chimera of Tomb, and more
PVP Online Matchmaking System - Quick matching for co-op or PVP
New Areas – Including Oolacile Tomb, Old Ruins and more
New Enemies – Including Abyss Guard, Chained Prisoner and more
New NPCs – Including Hawkeye Gough and more
New Weapons and Armor – Equip some from the new bosses, enemies, and NPCs
I'll try my best to update the OP with any information posted in this topic.
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