The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

1900DEF seems low for Tojil considering one of his peon NMs has around that. it's been discussed before in this thread, you can backread and find it yourself. I did the math manually using the most accurate models available and I have my results coming out every time attack is uncapped. Once again I seem to have to remind you, I'm not stupid enough to ignore details like main and offhand having different atk/acc so you can stop bringing it up.

Even without math, I don't see how you can say with a straight face that 2DA and 8 attack is superior to 50~60 attack when your ratio is uncapped.

Worth noting that your attack penalty points for Requiescat are off; it goes 20 -> 10 -> 0, not 20 -> 15 -> 10 so that's probably where the disconnect is coming from.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression than anything that scaled with TP scaled regardless of benchmarks. While 199 TP might only trigger AM1, it's still modded as if it were 199TP and not 100TP.

Ex: att penalty at 100TP is 20%, att penalty at 125 would be like 17.5%.

Also, the higher your attack is, the more valuable TP bonus would be for requiescat until you are basically at cap, right?

That's what I've been told.

Yes. That's exactly how it works, and that's why Moonshade is so valuable for Requiescat when your ratio is not capped. 100->125TP is an additional 2.5% attack from Moonshade.

Info from BG has Req at 20/15/10 so that's what I'm using.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Requiescat

2 DA and 8 Acc would easily beat 1000 attack, if cRatio was already capped prior. I haven't seen anything that gives Tojil 2200 defense and Moten is using 1900, so that's what I'm going with. If more solid information is presented then I can easily go with that. In either case my assumptions were rather light, 5 songs, 2 rolls and only ~50% defense down. Going with higher songs / more rolls and more defense down it renders moonshade completely worthless.

Yes, Req's anchor points according to bg are 20/??/10, it's assumed 15 is the middle tier.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Requiescat

So according to BG, which is currently the most accurate source of information, moonshade is +1.25% attack at the very end. Good if your not capped, useless if you are.

Considering that I am the source of information for the Requiescat attack penalty information on BG, that makes me the most accurate source of information, and my information is that Requiescat's attack penalty points lie at 20/10/0.

That all said, don't misrepresent my position. I've clearly specified that Moonshade/Brutal combo is superior when ratio is uncapped, not when it is capped. You've been trying to say that Steelflash+Bladeborn set is better always, which is false.

Your just the person who did the original 100% TP testing. If you have information regarding the 300% numbers please post them as I can't find anything regarding them in the mess that is BG forums. Otherwise you have someone putting wrong info on your wiki. If your confident in your assessment then edit the wiki yourself and put in the correct info. It's looking like Byrth is the one who put in 20/??/10.

Now I would greatly prefer it to be 0 at 300, I have to go with the most recent information provided and "I say so" doesn't count. That's what I hate most about this, the numbers for the three MB's (BLU isn't going to a Tojil run, there is no reason to) aren't posted and it's hard to nail down exactly when a build is capped. After all if the 1.25% on moonshade is helping you then so would the attack / acc off whirlpool.

Honestly we're debating a 1~2% difference which is nothing in the big scheme of things and reliant on how well buffed you are.


If moonshade is 1.25% attack then steel + blade will always beat it thought only slightly. That's where my statement comes from and if you have more accurate info then update BGwiki with links. Your a prominent poster there, that shouldn't be hard to do.

BG never received data or testing regarding the 300 or 200 TP values, they were always assumed (again, from things that I said). I really can't be bothered to scrounge through the mountains of spreadsheets and datasets that I've accumulated over the years in order to provide you with my exact test specifics, however I am the only NA, to my knowledge, who has done any semblance of attack penalty testing on Requiescat; and last I checked not even Gobli has the attack penalty points listed, though that may have changed recently. I can tell you, however, with much confidence, that Requiescats attack points are extremely likely to lie at 20/10/0 100/200/300.

That said, if you don't want to believe my numbers then feel free to retest it yourself. You won't find more accurate information about it than you will from me otherwise.

Byrth is the person who changed it. I can ask him later if it was a mistake or if there was additional info about it. "I'm right because I say so" is never nor ever will be acceptable. You could very well be correct, and I would rather you were, but without something to go off then we have what we have. If your confident in your results you should edit the wiki accordingly, possibly post something in the BLU thread there about it.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4930006&viewfull=1#post4930006

This is the post wherein I say that it had "at least" a 10% penalty at 300, however there were many errors in my test that were later rectified. I never posted more after that though for reasons that I don't even remember. Probably not being bothered with having to organize data into a presentable format or somesuch, even though data wasn't necessary at the time so that probably wasn't the reason.

You believe in the test he originally did but not in the correction in his own test that he did as well?

There was no correction, which is why I said that it Proth felt confident in his findings he should update wiki and drop a post in the BG Blue Mage thread about it.

I don't update the wiki, however I've put the information into the abilities facts thread for inclusion in the wiki.

See the reason I don't usually bother sharing information and such is due to the fact that I really can't be bothered to organize information into a presentable format and then bother answering the questions that will inevitably come afterward. For example, the pDIF model that I possess is significantly easier to learn and use, and slightly more accurate, than existing models; however I can't be bothered to provide test specifics and data, and I certainly can't be bothered to answer questions about any of it. Otherwise I'd have probably shared it ages ago. Well technically I have, but it I doubt anyone's bothered reading it or using it.

This is very bad. Essentially boils down to
"See I have this new better way to do something, I don't feel like justifying nor demonstrating that it's better but you guys should just take my word for it that it's better".

"I'm right because I say I am".

Your expecting everyone to accept X as true while not wiling to hold X up for scrutiny.

Well that would be true if I bothered publicly sharing the information to begin with. I haven't because I know it'd be pointless to proclaim it as accurate without providing the tests. I've written it places but haven't bothered making it very apparent that it's there, so what people do with it isn't my problem.

This is specifically referring to the pDIF model, though. Precedence alone is enough, for most people, as well as my previous integrity, when it comes to repeat and refined tests on a single weaponskill. If you're that bothered about it and really don't think you can trust my numbers then I invite you to test it yourself. You will find no other information regarding the WS from anyone else except me and my apparently deceitful ways. I would, however, ask you to refrain from using my old numbers if you aren't going to bother using the new ones instead since they're both equally inaccurate by your definition.

Go out and test yourself. If the info about the same subject comes from the same person you either don't hold their word for both(and thus you shouldn't use the 20-15-10 for comparison either) or there's no reason to believe they would mess up their own work for the sake of it.

If your stating that you've thoroughly tested it and it's 20/10/0 then we can use that.

The problem I have is that people can only make decisions / judgements based on best information available. If someone has something better they need to share it so that the entire community can make better decisions / judgements. Moten's DPS spreedsheets and BGWiki are the most commonly used sources of information in determining gear builds and "what to use". Right now that publicly available information, that everyone is using, is incorrect (according to Proth). You've had the "correct" info for so long that you've forgotten where it's organized and yet never shared it because you didn't want people to ask questions.

tldr: If you have newer info then f*cking share it so that others can incorporate it into their game decisions / judgements. You are not god and do not get to make decisions / judgements for people.

will you ever manage to finish a single conversation without resorting to ad hominem? i somehow doubt it. i've been more than generous with maintaining my composure so far, but your idiocy and constant need to attempt to put words into people's mouths, belittle, and otherwise attempt to slander people is quite annoying and difficult to ignore.

i owe it to no one, especially not you, to justify why i never made this information available. once again i'll remind you that i simply forgot to put the information out there for reasons that i do not remember. i did req tests at the same time that i did cdc crit tests, so cdc probably took precedence. i didnt even realize that i never shared the information until you linked the req bgwiki page.

i never claimed to be god, and i never claimed to make decisions for people. if you think that thats what this guide is for and thats why i do what i do, then you seriously need to reevaluate your position.

once youve submitted anything of any practical value to the community youll be eligible to come back and talk to me about my supposed god complex and want to control people. until then, would you kindly piss off?


ps. this will have been the second or third time youve been a *** in my thread. if a mod wanted to topicban you at this point i totally wouldnt be opposed.

Now your just lashing out.


You stated -10% @300, got put into community information.

Using that community information I acquired different results then your own. You were unable to provide information backing your claim while stating strongly that you "were right".


I never have nor ever will put words "into your mouth". I will however criticize your attitude. If your making "best gear" based on hidden "only you know" information then expecting people to just take your word for it, well I don't need to speak much else about that. You've even gone so far as to turn it into an emotional argument, which your prone to do whenever anyone attacks information you post.

Your only angry cause I pointed these things out. You can stomp, scream or thrash about, won't change your above statements. And your calls for censorship just cement how arrogant you've become.

You can't expect someone to have a positive reaction when you're the first to show hostility, which you've done repeatedely in an attempt to discredit a person using as 'proof' something that you actually give credit for to said person...it just makes no sense and shows that you want to be hostile and not constructive.

Just drop it. This is unneeded animosity.

i had hoped that youd changed, but you really havent. try reading the post that i so graciously provided for you, and kindly cease and desist your incessant want to assume that im purposefully witholding information. im anyhing but arrogant, however you can continue trying to paint me as something im not if you relly want, im sure people will listen if you scream loud enough. i wasnt even going to bother expressely requesting a mod's attention, howver if you really want me to i will. ive warned you multiple times in this thread to cease your manipulative, ***stirring ways, but you never seem to get the message.

I didn't show hostility until he pulled the "I have information, I just didn't make it available to anyone" maneuver.

The core of the debate was bladeborn + steelflash vs Brutal + Moonshade for Req. According to all available information bladeborn + steelflash wins. Proth stated that it didn't and thus we fleshed things out. Turns out he was in possession of information that nobody else had, and using a different pDiff model then everyone else too. I asked that he post his changes / information so that everyone else could use them.

Expecting others to believe what you say without providing any proof is ~exactly~ what religions do. It's the very definition of faith, hence the god reference.

the only thing that ive intntionally made unavailable is the pdif model, which makes no appreciable differences to end results unless the final digit being +/- 1 different is an amazingly big deal. last i checked motenten doesnt even use actual pdif models in his spreadsheets to begin with, though this may have changed. and once again i find myself having to remind you that i didnt even know that i never shared the req informaton. i will not be repeating myself again.

if youre so upset about me not having data available to support my req numbers, then you should not have been preaching my old numbers as gospel before because, spoilers, the post where i said it's 20@100tp didnt have any data either, nor does the one where i mention that it's "at least" 10@300.

Arbitrarily deciding which information from the same person is good and which is bad whilst they are provided in the same way, that is not a proper way to validate an argument.

Jeez, Saevel, if you're that unhappy with the information or its delivery, just ask for a refund already.

Nonsense and strawman.

Reread the procession of events, especially the part where I state all current info points to 20/15/10 and that if he has anything different to post it. It's only afterwards that he stated he had done additional tests and just never posted them.

After that statement I said that if he felt confident in this results then I accepted them and he needed to correct the wiki and post something in the BG Blue Mage thread along with whatever additional information he might have (testing / ect..). This is not for me but for the community as a whole.

The proper answer is something along the lines of

"Yo dawg, sorry I forgot to post the tests I did awhile back. The information everyone's been using is wrong and I'll see what I can do to get the correct info out. I might not have time to dig out all the sheets and notes so you guys might have to take my word on this".

Not the egotistical arrogant crap that came out afterwards.

You guys can cheerleader team Proth all you want, his posts speak for themselves.

no one's cheerleading me. they just a) know how to read and b) can probably see through your facade. there has been no "egotistical arrogant crap" here. in fact if i wanted to be egotistical and arrogant, id probably want my name and methods plastered around so i could be famous on the interwebs rather than keeping it to myself

I like how I'm a cheerleader because I see the obvious logical path to:

"Yeah, I haven't released everything because I don't really want to deal with the hassle over it"

when it's followed immediately by:

"OMG WHY ARE YOU NOT SHARING THIS AND BY THE WAY UR WRONG U GOD COMPLEX GUY"

There's a reason we call you The Shame of Lakshmi.

Gladly:
S: Requiescat is 20/15/10
P: I guess that's why we got different results, that is wrong and it's actually 20/10/0
S: Bg says otherwise
P: Yeah, I wrote that on bg but since then I corrected my tests, I didn't notice bg had that info *goes to post on bg about it*
S: (this is where the bs starts) I don't believe this, instead I believe the other test of yours which is provided in the same manner and comes from the same person (the arbitrary argument)
From there everyone was pissed.