And i think if anything they will make it like their online gaming is. if you buy a used game you have to pay 10-20 bucks to register it to your console/gamer tag. I find nothing wrong with that. because it will just cut into game stops (or W/e used game store near you is called) profit. it wont effect the gamer really.
It's going to affect people if it cuts into GameStop's profit. Just like any other business they WILL make up the loss one way or another. Any 2nd hand gaming store will.
Then you cant read... i asked if you were rationalizing stealing. see the question mark?
Wasn't really much of a question if it was presented in a manner that implied a statement. One I never made nevertheless.
Anyways, before this turns into a two-way flame war over interpretation, I would hope publishers and developers alike would understand their user base and target demograph's "incentives". What compels someone to pirate a game rather than purchasing it? Price is perhaps the most obvious answer, but when the publishers go out of the way to make piracy deterrents that only affect legitimate purchases, then that creates another incentive and reason to not purchase the game to begin with. Perhaps one that is more alienating than the price tag was. People may already cope with the $60 they shell out for a mediocre game, but if it requires them to purchase more things just to get all of their product or enforces them to jump through unnecessary hoops just to be able to play at all, then why wouldn't they download it?
Piracy is a service issue. Too often will companies protect their investments in the most misguided and counter-productive manner. The real answer is to provide service and content that compels one to purchase over downloading, rather than drive them further to pirate.
In regards to DRM - I pay to play the game. I dont pay to be told when and how I'll be allowed to play it. If a game is DRM you better believe that downloading it crosses my mind. If I can get the game without all the stupid drm but still pay them then sure I'd do it. Half the time DRM games arnt even worth the price they are asking for.
So, it's okay to steal if you don't feel like taking the few extra steps?
If the steps are a hinderance to me but a gain for nobody then yes.
Like the assassins creed games. They have DRM out the ***. Would I pay to have Assassins creed 2 where if you go OFFLINE for even a second then your entire game is disconnected. Seriously. If you disconnect from the internet due to a internet bug then your game disconnects. Would I get a pirate without this DRM? Of cource I would.
This was all going to happen sometime. I really think that video games need to get away from the "for-profit" scenario and go back to releasing labors of love. I'm sure that's an extremely complicated process, but its the reason indie games are hitting so big right now, and larger company games are mostly trash.
I never thought id see the day that a gamer would defend and say not being able to play used games was a good idea.
I buy used games, but guess what? I usually buy them because it wasnt something that interested me when it came out, and when I want it, its no longer in print to buy new so I HAVE to buy it used.
I highly doubt many people buy a game that JUST came out, to save 5 dollars. I personally don't know anyone that does because they always say "id rather just spend the 5 dollars"
Also, like someone said, it means you can't borrow a friends game. Or better yet, if you live with other people who want to play, they HAVE to play the game on your gamer tag, and not their own.
It only hurts the gamer, and likely wont help the developers much.
This was all going to happen sometime. I really think that video games need to get away from the "for-profit" scenario and go back to releasing labors of love. I'm sure that's an extremely complicated process, but its the reason indie games are hitting so big right now, and larger company games are mostly trash.
Even when they were "labors or love", there was still nearly the same amount of trash if you look at it in a percentage.
Quote:
If the steps are a hinderance to me but a gain for nobody then yes.
It's still a gain for the people who make the game. It may not be a very big one in your eyes, however. It may also not be very effective for those who have access to the right channels and know how. However it is still effective for a number of consumers and until a better way to protect product from piracy comes out, we're stuck with it.
This was all going to happen sometime. I really think that video games need to get away from the "for-profit" scenario and go back to releasing labors of love. I'm sure that's an extremely complicated process, but its the reason indie games are hitting so big right now, and larger company games are mostly trash.
Even when they were "labors or love", there was still nearly the same amount of trash if you look at it in a percentage.
Quote:
If the steps are a hinderance to me but a gain for nobody then yes.
It's still a gain for the people who make the game. It may not be a very big one in your eyes, however. It may also not be very effective for those who have access to the right channels and know how. However it is still effective for a number of consumers and until a better way to protect product from piracy comes out, we're stuck with it.
Id rather just get a pirate copy than bother with DRM. No drm and they can have my money pretty much every time if the game is any good.
I never thought id see the day that a gamer would defend and say not being able to play used games was a good idea.
I buy used games, but guess what? I usually buy them because it wasnt something that interested me when it came out, and when I want it, its no longer in print to buy new so I HAVE to buy it used.
I highly doubt many people buy a game that JUST came out, to save 5 dollars. I personally don't know anyone that does because they always say "id rather just spend the 5 dollars"
Also, like someone said, it means you can't borrow a friends game. Or better yet, if you live with other people who want to play, they HAVE to play the game on your gamer tag, and not their own.
It only hurts the game, and likely wont help the developers much.
Plenty of gamers could care less about this. as there are also plenty of gamers who do care.
Lol how will it hurt the game? only buying it new will let you play it... so they are getting sales. if you dont buy the game for whatever reason you were most likely a person who was going to buy it used, which the developers and publishers get no money for... so you not going to support them doesnt effect them anyways.
If anything i would think that the only thing that will get hurt is console sales. but this is microsoft here.... they get most of their sales from xbox's they red ring and you have to go rebuy >.> im sure their new console will do the same lol
Most of my game collection is used because I don't care enough to buy the game at full price, or I'm late to the party, or it's a sleeper title that I take an interest in. There's something enjoyable about this process, and though I realize the actual devs don't get the amount they require, that means a restructuring of the business is in order, not exploiting their customer base.
Treat us with respect, and we'll do the same back. *** DRMs, "DLC" that's 5 kb big that is an "expansion," locking content on a disc to later unlock as if its new (Here's looking at you SEGA/PSU), multi-player mode DLC, among other cheap tricks are all going to alienate your player base; the true gamers, not the players who have 20 trophies/achievements off a single game (Ones that are just handed to you. "First Head Shot!") and probably won't buy more than three games for their console.
@Cocien: You're right, but the overall % will get better. At least I'd think. And I'd be more open to swallowing a bad game if it were a labor of love, personally.
I highly doubt many people buy a game that JUST came out, to save 5 dollars. I personally don't know anyone that does because they always say "id rather just spend the 5 dollars"
You wouldn't BELIEVE how wrong you are about this.....I see it daily. Every time I'm at work. People are cheap. But at the same time, they want to be able to return the game for their money back if it blows, which you have 7 days to do if it's used.
Quote:
Treat us with respect, and we'll do the same back. *** DRMs, "DLC" that's 5 kb big that is an "expansion," locking content on a disc to later unlock as if its new (Here's looking at you SEGA/PSU), multi-player mode DLC, among other cheap tricks are all going to alienate your player base; the true gamers, not the players who have 20 trophies/achievements off a single game (Ones that are just handed to you. "First Head Shot!") and probably won't buy more than three games for their console.
You need to look at the earnings that major second hand retailers make off of used games to understand the predicament that developers are in. Games that are sold one are often sold 3-4 times with the rest of the proceeds going to GameStop. GameStop makes an insane amount of money, infact 90% or so of their profits come from the preowned sales. Not to mention the fact that it causes them to drop the price of the used game to help make up for the fact that the consumer is going to be spending additional money. In the end, it doesn't really effect you other than adding a little bit of extra work.
Quote:
Plenty of gamers could care less about this. as there are also plenty of gamers who do care.
(Talking about the Xbox not playing used games)
The gamers who don't care about this are completely ignorant of the ramifications that this strategy would impose on the video game medium as a whole. It might not affect a person who only buys new games on the onset, but in the long run it most definitely will.
You need to look at the earnings that major second hand retailers make off of used games to understand the predicament that developers are in. Games that are sold one are often sold 3-4 times with the rest of the proceeds going to GameStop. GameStop makes an insane amount of money, infact 90% or so of their profits come from the preowned sales. Not to mention the fact that it causes them to drop the price of the used game to help make up for the fact that the consumer is going to be spending additional money. In the end, it doesn't really effect you other than adding a little bit of extra work.
And? It's a niche market that's been capitalized on, in the same way book stores have capitalized on resold books. So because book publishers are jealous of the profit these stores are making, they're going digitally distribute everything? Seems kind of spiteful to me.
The only thing I dont like about Gamestop, even when buying 'new' games, is the fact that in some cases, they open the game case, making it technically 'used'. I don't agree with that tactic whatsoever
And? It's a niche market that's been capitalized on, in the same way book stores have capitalized on resold books. So because book publishers are jealous of the profit these stores are making, they're going digitally distribute everything? Seems kind of spiteful to me.
Digital distribution has so little to do with any second hand sales market and has everything to do with the state of technology so readily available in this day and age. It's not because businesses are throwing a hissy fit that people are buying their products second hand, it's because a majority of people demand instant gratification this day and age. Digital is quick, convenient, I don't stand in a line, and I can shop without pants on. That's why businesses are heavy on the digital now, not because little Freddy only buys used games.
I highly doubt many people buy a game that JUST came out, to save 5 dollars. I personally don't know anyone that does because they always say "id rather just spend the 5 dollars"
You wouldn't BELIEVE how wrong you are about this.....I see it daily. Every time I'm at work. People are cheap. But at the same time, they want to be able to return the game for their money back if it blows, which you have 7 days to do if it's used.
Quote:
Treat us with respect, and we'll do the same back. *** DRMs, "DLC" that's 5 kb big that is an "expansion," locking content on a disc to later unlock as if its new (Here's looking at you SEGA/PSU), multi-player mode DLC, among other cheap tricks are all going to alienate your player base; the true gamers, not the players who have 20 trophies/achievements off a single game (Ones that are just handed to you. "First Head Shot!") and probably won't buy more than three games for their console.
You need to look at the earnings that major second hand retailers make off of used games to understand the predicament that developers are in. Games that are sold one are often sold 3-4 times with the rest of the proceeds going to GameStop. GameStop makes an insane amount of money, infact 90% or so of their profits come from the preowned sales. Not to mention the fact that it causes them to drop the price of the used game to help make up for the fact that the consumer is going to be spending additional money. In the end, it doesn't really effect you other than adding a little bit of extra work.
Quote:
Plenty of gamers could care less about this. as there are also plenty of gamers who do care.
(Talking about the Xbox not playing used games)
The gamers who don't care about this are completely ignorant of the ramifications that this strategy would impose on the video game medium as a whole. It might not affect a person who only buys new games on the onset, but in the long run it most definitely will.
maybe, maybe not. but i dont foresee huge ramifications...
also gamestops used game sales make up about 50% of their profits.
like i said it would be smarter if they charged you 10-20 dollars in order to play a used game instead of just locking all used games out.
or even if gamestop gave a percentage of their resell of a game to the developer.
And that's the only reason that the market ought to shift in that direction, but a part of me thinks it's not wholly the case. 5 kb DLC for $5~15 is ***, and the only reason for it is to scrape another few bucks out of a game, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if its entirely reactionary to the profit margins of GameStop and the-like.
And? It's a niche market that's been capitalized on, in the same way book stores have capitalized on resold books. So because book publishers are jealous of the profit these stores are making, they're going digitally distribute everything? Seems kind of spiteful to me.
Digital distribution has so little to do with any second hand sales market and has everything to do with the state of technology so readily available in this day and age. It's not because businesses are throwing a hissy fit that people are buying their products second hand, it's because a majority of people demand instant gratification this day and age. Digital is quick, convenient, I don't stand in a line, and I can shop without pants on. That's why businesses are heavy on the digital now, not because little Freddy only buys used games.
exactly, digital sales wouldnt be so huge if people didnt actually use it. i mean they still sell books in stores. but people still buy it digitally.
The only thing I dont like about Gamestop, even when buying 'new' games, is the fact that in some cases, they open the game case, making it technically 'used'. I don't agree with that tactic whatsoever
Once you work at a GameStop you'd understand why that is. As far as making it "used" I disagree. It becomes "used" when it has been played. Now seeing as GameStop does allow employees to check out games, that's where the argument comes into play. The reason GameStop opens the cases to display the games is simple enough. It secures product, it's a marketing aspect, and outside of the security cameras, there are no door alarms that go off when someone takes something. Therefore putting games in those little plastic boxes is useless so there's an option to be thrown out the door.
maybe, maybe not. but i dont foresee huge ramifications...
also gamestops used game sales make up about 50% of their profits.
like i said it would be smarter if they charged you 10-20 dollars in order to play a used game instead of just locking all used games out.
or even if gamestop gave a percentage of their resell of a game to the developer.
The preowned sales make quite a bit more than 50% of their profits and no way in hell will GameStop help bail out someone due to their own misguided ideas. Though stranger things have happened.
One was a demo of the game I bought. My Mom had to go in and raise hell to get me the real thing. The other just didn't have anything in it. The weight should've alerted me but it was a gift so didn't consider it.
On two occasions, I've gotten the wrong disc in a game. I wonder if that's related.
It's related to the employee being too lazy to do their job and make sure that they are handing out the product that is being bought. It's also indicative of a poorly managed GameStop. Granted there are a few exceptions....like Black Friday in a mall GameStop....if you have no sympathy for the poor *** who work in a mall on that day, you are heartless.
I feel bad for those guys every day. I hear the rate of theft in mall-stores is phenomenally higher than regular outlets, which doesn't surprise me one bit considering the varying demographics that show up in the different types of stores. Then again, the one near me that's not near the mall got robbed fairly recently too... so yeah.
Last year my store lost $250k worth of merch on black friday weekend. Granted I wasn't the manager at the time but still.....this year was 80k over the entire holiday season, which is still a ton of theft.
NEITHER GAME NOR GAMESTATION WILL BE STOCKING ME3.
Eurogamer said:
UPDATE: GAME has issued a statement to Eurogamer in response to the retailer's decision not to stock Mass Effect 3, blaming it on a "supply issue".
"We currently have a supply issue with regards to Mass Effect 3, which means that GAME and gamestation will not be able to fulfil orders for Mass Effect 3 at this time. We want to give customers as much notice about this as possible and provide them with a range of options ahead of launch.
"We appreciate that this is disappointing for our customers, and we apologise sincerely for the inconvenience that this will cause. We value the loyalty of our customers very highly and as a gesture of goodwill we are providing the following:
Customers who have pre-ordered in store, will have the opportunity to add £5 worth of Reward points to their card if they visit us from today through to 16 March 2012.
Customers who have placed a deposit for the title will receive refund as well as the £5 worth of Reward points between 1 and 16 March 2012.
Customers who have pre-ordered online, will be provided with an online voucher to the value of £5 to be spent on any purchase on our sites.
Eurogamer was told by GAME staff that customers will receive their refunds in store credit, not cash.
ORIGINAL STORY: GAME Group will not be stocking any EA games past SSX in March, including Mass Effect 3, Eurogamer has discovered. This encompasses all GAME and Gamestation stores.
Various GAME and Gamestation staff alerted Eurogamer to this situation after a company-wide memo was sent out at around 10.30am this morning.
Eurogamer has secured an image of this memo, which also reveals that FIFA Street 3, Tiger Woods 13 and Sims 3 Showtime will also not be stocked by GAME Group.
Eurogamer has corroborated this information with individual GAME Group stores. The last stocked EA game will be SSX, we were told.
If you have a pre-order, GAME will refund you via in-store credit, rather than with cash.
EA responded to Eurogamer's request for comment by directing us to a Mass Effect 3 Launch Update website. GAME's absence from the list of retailers speaks volumes.
This worrying text followed: "For customers who have pre-ordered the N7 Collector's Edition please re-order your copies through these retailers."
These are Amazon, Play, Zavvi and ShopTo. Blockbuster phoned Eurogamer to say it's stocking the N7 Collector's Editio,n too.
"For further information regarding the Mass Effect 3 Standard Edition with the N7 Warfare Gear in-game weapons pack, please check this page later today," the blurb continued.
"If you have placed a deposit for a pre-order or are uncertain that your existing pre-order will be guaranteed, please contact your local retailer."
"Your local retailer is doing everything possible to make this process as smooth as possible to ensure you get your copy on launch day."
HMV told Eurogamer it couldn't comment on a competitor's situation, but confirmed it would be stocking Mass Effect 3 and the rest of EA's titles.
GAME Group hasn't responded to Eurogamer's request for comment.
SSX may be the last Electronic Arts game that GAME ever stocks, if the latest rumours are to be believed. With GAME releasing the following statement just moments ago:
'We currently have a supply issue with regards to Mass Effect 3, which means that GAME and Gamestation will not be able to fulfil orders for Mass Effect 3 at this time. We want to give customers as much notice about this as possible and provide them with a range of options ahead of launch.
We appreciate that this is disappointing for our customers, and we apologise sincerely for the inconvenience that this will cause. We value the loyalty of our customers very highly and as a gesture of goodwill we are providing the following:
• Customers who have pre-ordered in store*, will have the opportunity to add £5 worth of Reward points to their card if they visit us from 1st March through to 16th March 2012
• Customers who have placed a deposit for the title* will receive a refund as well as the £5 worth of Reward points between 1st - 16th March 2012
• Customers who have pre-ordered online, will be provided with an online voucher to the value of £5 to be spent on any purchase on our sites
*All customer must be able provide valid proof that they have placed a pre-order or deposit'
According to website Eurogamer things are even worse than they sound, as they claim no EA game beyond SSX will be stocked by GAME. SSX is due out this Friday, so that means no Mass Effect 3 the week after, no FIFA Street, and no Tiger Woods PGA Tour 13.
They also claim that no other Nintendo distributed games will be sold either. We can't confirm that but Nintendo has just sent us a long list of shops that will be selling Mario Party 9 on Friday - and it doesn't include GAME.
Mario Party 9 will be third Nintendo distributed game in a row not to be sold by GAME, after The Last Story and Tekken 3D Prime Edition.
Nintendo and EA have refused to comment on the situation further, although EA has referred us to the same page on their website mentioned by GAME.
The page warns that the Mass Effect 3 N7 Collector's Edition will only be available at Amazon.co.uk, Play.com, Zavvi.com, ShopTo.Net, and Blockbuster. GAME are not listed, even though the Collector's Edition (and the standard ones) are still on GAME's website.
EA are advising customers who have pre-ordered the N7 Collector's Edition to re-order it through one of the above stores. An update about the N7 Warfare Gear in-game weapons pack is promised for later today.
Ever since its credit rating changed at the beginning of the year GAME has had trouble keeping new games in stock. Wii game The Last Story still isn't being stocked by them and they didn't have any of Ubisoft's PS Vita games at launch.
If the problems with Mass Effect 3 aren't resolved very quickly then the future is looking very grim for both GAME and Gamestation.
For those who have pre-ordered on origin - you can cancel it. (I just cancelled my Digital Deluxe and ordered it on amazon.co.uk)
Can talk to an Origin advisor to cancel by clicking Here and filling in the relevant information.
I urge you to look around and make sure that this is accurate before you do that however - I don't want to be the focus of your rage :P
----------
Regarding refunds I found this tidbit
guardian said:
She said that customers who have pre-ordered in store will be able to add £5 worth of reward points to their card between 1 and 16 March. Customers who have paid a deposit will receive a refund as well as the £5 worth of reward points, while customers who have pre-ordered online will get an online voucher for £5.
Play.com, Amazon.co.uk, ShopTo and Zavvi to offer the limited set after GAME fails to secure stock.
Following GAME's admission that it won't be stocking Mass Effect 3 at launch, EA has revealed that the N7 Collector's Edition - previously a GAME exclusive - will now be available at Amazon, Play.com, Zavvi and ShopTo.
