[dev1063] Job Adjustments: Warrior

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2010-09-08
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[dev1063] Job Adjustments: Warrior
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2011-12-21 17:33:58
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Asura.Ludoggy said: »
Please use the sarcasm tags >:


They make reading crap much easier!
 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2011-12-21 17:34:54
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Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Never heard of sarcasm have you? I was born from and continue to live in the United States.

What mine wasn't sarcasm?
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By Fupafighters 2011-12-21 17:35:14
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Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »
Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
Fupafighters said: »
Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »
Fupafighters said: »
Enough about samurai lol...Warrior thread! Arent they upping double attack and critical attack bonus in job traits for warrior?

lol..... no but they are removing crit bonus...
Yeah from the job ability and ws...but arent they improving the job trait for warrior?
see page 1

lol... what do you think a job ability is... you think job ability is on weapon?
WARRIOR gets the JOB TRAIT critical attack bonus. I hear they're improving THAT, but nerfing blood rage...yes i know what job ability is asshat.
 Sylph.Biginallways
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2011-12-21 17:35:34
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LOL at least the QQers seem to be gone now haha.
 Bahamut.Novadragon
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By Bahamut.Novadragon 2011-12-21 17:36:06
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Asura.Solara said: »
Bahamut.Novadragon said: »
Asura.Solara said: »
Bahamut.Novadragon said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
Dude who cares my 85 ukon was smashing 95 bravura, people making points about empys are doing so because the 85 stage is a complete joke to get and still made the 95 relic ga a joke.

You sir make the best point. Empys broke alot of Relic due to their ws being so damn strong.

I believe you mean "due to Relic ws being so weak". Before Ukko's was shitting on Metatron, Raging Rush and King's Justice did. Hell, at 75 Tomoe beat Amano on most content, where was the Penta Thrust nerf?

Nerfs are almost always a bad idea, the only one I can think of that made sense was the tp return nerf. All other "adjustments" they made could have been easily resolved through minor changes to enhance other jobs.

There was a Penta nerf when it's mods were changed. Even E body wars were doing 3k+ Pentas. Then the nerf came in for being too powerful.

I'm going to assume you mean the change from "damage varies" to "accuracy varies" back when they added an acc penalty (that they removed a few months later) to Penta. I don't know of any other Penta changes, if there's one I'm not aware of please let me know.

That was hardly a nerf, iirc the damage bonus didn't add anything at 100tp and no one ws's above 100tp anyway if they can help it. If anything it helped because Penta accuracy on higher level mobs was always a complaint since 2004, that change along with the 2hnd buff was a blessing.

Wars could get higher Penta damage than Sam or Drg thanks to job abilities, but it was mainly overpowered on Sam because of the hit builds available due to polearm delay.

Sams were stronger than Drgs were with their own weapon on fodder (Salvage/Limbus/Ein/Merits) mobs, and had Hagun for HNMS. Both were better than the damage of several relics, which was my original point.

It's the only nerf I can think of really.
 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2011-12-21 17:38:31
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Fupafighters said: »
Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »
Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
Fupafighters said: »
Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »
Fupafighters said: »
Enough about samurai lol...Warrior thread! Arent they upping double attack and critical attack bonus in job traits for warrior?

lol..... no but they are removing crit bonus...
Yeah from the job ability and ws...but arent they improving the job trait for warrior?
see page 1

lol... what do you think a job ability is... you think job ability is on weapon?
WARRIOR gets the JOB TRAIT critical attack bonus. I hear they're improving THAT, but nerfing blood rage...yes i know what job ability is asshat.

If ya know that then why are you asking? I'm talking about blood rage and ws. I never said from JT
 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-21 18:25:18
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Fupafighters said: »
Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Bahamut.Danthebk said: »
A quick comparison between Tachi: Shoha and Ukko's Fury to show how little warrant there is for this nerf. Also, Kantanotachi+Shoha is better than Masamune and Amanomurakumo. Sucks for the career SAM's that gave it their all to be a well-geared SAM throughout the Abyssea content.


WRONG.
Lol yeah so wrong...Your comparing a 99 magian weapon to a 85 empyrian. And have people tested amano at 99 yet? Didn't think so. How about we all stop bitching about sam until we see the numbers at 99...

What? That 99 TP Bonus weapon is exponentially easier than even an 85 Masamune. And I was assuming 90 Masamune anyway, not 85, and even the 95 still doesn't compete with it, the 99 might be on par, but after the exponential cost of those final two stages for barely a +/-10 dps difference is hardly anything to consider.

And I literally just proved that an average SAM is better than the best WAR, which I didn't even think would have been the case to begin with, I assumed WAR was still top of the chain outside of Abyssea, even Masamune SAM beats it.

So, I will post in a few minutes the comparison between the three weaponskills, despite there being no reason to even consider doing that since math is above you and you feel your opinion is law despite clear evidence of the contrary.

Actually, *** all of that. I'm not even going to waste my time. You'll just refuse to acknowledge it anyway.
 Asura.Solara
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By Asura.Solara 2011-12-21 18:25:51
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The Crit Damage and Double Attack job traits were already scheduled to be added at 99 and were on the test server, but they were ninja pulled at the last minute. They're now being used as a way to cushion the BR/Ukko's nerf by giving us something that they were already going to give us anyway, but announced to seem like a new bonus.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-12-21 18:39:11
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Bahamut.Danthebk said: »
Actually, *** all of that. I'm not even going to waste my time. You'll just refuse to acknowledge it anyway.
There's a reason that experiments are field tested. Mathematical equations assume that all variables are taken into account, being that all variables are entered by hand and accounted for. You cannot account for a variable you don't know about, or that a mathematical proposition doesn't address. Your flaw is that you've shown higher WS frequency, and higher numerical damage in WSs, but you fail to account for WAR's white damage, which beats SAM like a $2 hooker.
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 Sylph.Biginallways
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2011-12-21 19:00:32
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Bahamut.Danthebk said: »
Fupafighters said: »
Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Bahamut.Danthebk said: »
A quick comparison between Tachi: Shoha and Ukko's Fury to show how little warrant there is for this nerf. Also, Kantanotachi+Shoha is better than Masamune and Amanomurakumo. Sucks for the career SAM's that gave it their all to be a well-geared SAM throughout the Abyssea content.


WRONG.
Lol yeah so wrong...Your comparing a 99 magian weapon to a 85 empyrian. And have people tested amano at 99 yet? Didn't think so. How about we all stop bitching about sam until we see the numbers at 99...

What? That 99 TP Bonus weapon is exponentially easier than even an 85 Masamune. And I was assuming 90 Masamune anyway, not 85, and even the 95 still doesn't compete with it, the 99 might be on par, but after the exponential cost of those final two stages for barely a +/-10 dps difference is hardly anything to consider.

And I literally just proved that an average SAM is better than the best WAR, which I didn't even think would have been the case to begin with, I assumed WAR was still top of the chain outside of Abyssea, even Masamune SAM beats it.

So, I will post in a few minutes the comparison between the three weaponskills, despite there being no reason to even consider doing that since math is above you and you feel your opinion is law despite clear evidence of the contrary.

Actually, *** all of that. I'm not even going to waste my time. You'll just refuse to acknowledge it anyway.




Wow, just wow.... You stated "Also, Kantanotachi+Shoha is better than Masamune and Amanomurakumo." There is no mention of level of the weapon. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that Amano and Masamune at 99 will pwn Kantanotachi based on Aftermath/2.5dmg procs alone. You've made enough of an *** out of yourself. Btw, any good warrior will ***all over a good sam in overall dmg. A good samurai will even tell you this. "An average sam is better than the best war".... Are you mentally ill? Do you actually play this game? You need to download kparser my friend b/c you are in for a rude awakening if you actually decide to test your THEORIES. Get a clue before you come back up here posting nonsense when you don't know wtf you're talking about.
 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-21 19:04:11
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It beats it like a $2 hooker inside of Abyssea. But it's nowhere near as significant outside of Abyssea, which I really don't want to figure out the difference right now because I despise TP phase calculations.

I lied about not doing the Samurai thing, I wanted to prove it to myself as well. Everyone that still insists on disagreeing with me despite proof of the contrary are only proving their own ignorance >.>

Gear for all three because they're all basically the same weaponskill anyway:
Shoha:
shoha = 287 * 4.0 * 1.95 = 2240 * 1.19 = 2665

Fudo:
fudo = 262 * 4.3 * 1.6 = 1802 * 1.19 = 2145

-fudo set is most optimal as a six hit, 5-hit Kantontachi has a 17% more weaponskill frequency.
-five hit fudo has a 13% more weaponskill frequency than 5-hit Kantontachi, but sacrifices ~5% haste and benefits less from ODD, loss of haste is a significant detriment when marches are available.

Kaiten:
kaiten = 251 * 3.3 * 1.6 = 1325 * 1.25 = 1656 * 1.19 = 1971

-Six hit is still better than a five hit despite the aftermath, albeit a very marginal difference. 5-hit Kantonotachi has a 17% more weaponskill frequency.
-Have no clue what the 2.5 damage proc rate is and not going to look it up, but it would have to be like 35% to even compete with Masamune, and will still fall short of Kantanotachi.

tl;dr:
You can kill ~600 Abyssea NMs and spend 400+ million gil to get a Masamune which ends up being on par with Kantanotachi in a zerg scenario where you are always attacking the mob and gets murdered in a scenario where you can't be on the mob and rely on Meditate so as to not feed it TP or something similar. Or you can do like 2k weaponskills and get Shoha.

Amano is just completely ***.
 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-21 19:05:05
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The ignorance displayed by the bulk of the ffxiah community just kills me. I have proven every single claim I have made, the only discrepancy possible is in the TP phase of WAR vs. SAM, which I will get to... Tomorrow at work because *** working at work.
 Sylph.Biginallways
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2011-12-21 19:07:09
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Guess what? YOU'RE THE IGNORANT PERSON WHO IS IGNORING DAMAGE OVER TIME AND ONLY TAKING WEAPONSKILL DAMAGE INTO ACCOUNT. Samurai's DOT (damage over time) is mediocre at best, which is why amano and masamune are such good weapons for the job. Christ even noobs understand DOT. Edit: This is also the reason why warrior spanks samurai in overall dmg in parses. It has NOTHING to do with weaponskill dmg. Now go play in the sam forum rather than trolling our threads with your ignorant BS. K thnx bye.
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By Nabis 2011-12-21 19:10:51
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sam don't even know how to 3 hit properly
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-12-21 19:15:49
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Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Samurai's DOT (damage over time) is mediocre at best, which is why amano and masamune are such good weapons for the job.

Yea... no. They were mainly good weapons because of their ws.

Hagun/tomoe at 75 cap says hi.
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 Sylph.Biginallways
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By Sylph.Biginallways 2011-12-21 19:18:48
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Bahamut.Serj said: »
Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Samurai's DOT (damage over time) is mediocre at best, which is why amano and masamune are such good weapons for the job.

Yea... no. They were mainly good weapons because of their ws.

Hagun/tomoe at 75 cap says hi.[/[/b]quote]




Completely irrelevant, and wrong kaiten was mediocre at 75 and worthless against HNMs. Gekko won on anything worth a ***at 75cap. Amano's DoT got a huge increase with the 95 update in case you didn't know. The aftermath/2.5dmg procs are the only reason masamune and amano ARE and will continue to be the best weapons for samurai.
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 Fenrir.Skadoosh
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By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-21 19:27:48
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Doesn't Kogarasumaru rape those now? Especially with Shoha?
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 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-21 19:30:07
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Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
Doesn't Kogarasumaru rape those now? Especially with Shoha?

Actually, yes, almost definitely.
 Asura.Kaisuko
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By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-21 19:30:08
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Fenrir.Skadoosh said: »
Doesn't Kogarasumaru rape those now? Especially with Shoha?

Who has one though? XD
 Bahamut.Danthebk
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By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-21 19:30:58
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Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Samurai's DOT (damage over time) is mediocre at best, which is why amano and masamune are such good weapons for the job.

Yea... no. They were mainly good weapons because of their ws.

Hagun/tomoe at 75 cap says hi.quote]




Completely irrelevant, and wrong kaiten was mediocre at 75 and worthless against HNMs. Gekko won on anything worth a ***at 75cap. Amano's DoT got a huge increase with the 95 update in case you didn't know. The aftermath/2.5dmg procs are the only reason masamune and amano ARE and will continue to be the best weapons for samurai.

***, can you please learn to quote. Edit: OH NOES, well played
 
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 Asura.Kaisuko
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By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-21 19:41:23
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Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
What i want to know is were was the outrage when relics orginally got ***on by empyreans.

I dont agree with any nerf but i find it slightly amusing the outrange this is causing, when most of the community laughed at relic holders.
inb4 mind ***.

Majority > Minority.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
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By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-12-21 20:20:11
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People aren't upset because the game is getting balanced. They're upset because SE has once again decided to balance it in a way that is the most upsetting and disrespectful to the playerbase.

You balance UPward. Not downward. If, for some strange reason, after testing everything yourself, mathing out the numbers, coding up the gear/Weaponskills, and throwing them on the test server to validate, you've still missed some slightly unbalanced factor, you lose the ability to simply snatch it back after a year plus of use.

Players have worked towards these weapons and this gear specifically based on performance. Time has been invested, and it's a disservice to take that time and effort away.

The proper action would be to *** ways to strengthen other jobs. Instead of nerfing Ukko/Smite, work on giving Drk a reasonable WS. Instead of nerfing damage on weapons people have been working on, take away the damned attack penalty on Stardiver and Drakesbane. Instead of pissing on everything we've worked for, how about making EVERYONE happy by adding new versatility to the jobs that are behind now.

There is ONLY one reason they would nerf these instead of buffing other jobs or WSs, and that is pure laziness. It's easier to lower the crit rate on these 2 weaponskills, than take the a small amount of time to buff some other job WSs.

Everyone is happy when you buff lower end jobs. Everyone is enraged when you nerf things we've all come to love.

It's clear they're willing to piss off their playerbase, rather than make them all happy, just to demonstrate how little they care for their clients, or how lazy they can be when it comes to thoughtful game development.
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-12-21 22:21:27
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Sylph.Biginallways said: »
Completely irrelevant

Not really, but go on.

Quote:
and wrong kaiten was mediocre at 75 and worthless against HNMs. Gekko won on anything worth a ***at 75cap.

Kaiten was mainly outdone by penta thrust with Tomoe, which is exactly why I said what I did. On things with high def / you didn't tp on, hagun was better.

Any sam worth a damn at 75 that had amano had the other 2.

Quote:
Amano's DoT got a huge increase with the 95 update in case you didn't know. The aftermath/2.5dmg procs are the only reason masamune and amano ARE and will continue to be the best weapons for samurai.

Yes, I do know that amano has a 16% chance at 2.5x damage at 95.

What you seem to not know, though, is that doing relevant content with a sam (voidwatch), sams will have a 3-2 hit build, which will further diminish any buff you have for your white damage.
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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2011-12-21 22:29:30
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Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
What i want to know is were was the outrage when relics orginally got ***on by empyreans.

I dont agree with any nerf but i find it slightly amusing the outrange this is causing, when most of the community laughed at relic holders.
There was.
It's just that the relic population was probably half of what it is now then.
If there was a relic nerf now I'm sure there would be plenty crying.
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-12-21 22:55:16
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Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
What i want to know is were was the outrage when relics orginally got ***on by empyreans.

I dont agree with any nerf but i find it slightly amusing the outrange this is causing, when most of the community laughed at relic holders.


A lot of us were completely outraged... The only problem was there were so few of us at the time that we could not make enough noise for SE to care.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-12-21 23:09:53
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Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
What i want to know is were was the outrage when relics orginally got ***on by empyreans.

I dont agree with any nerf but i find it slightly amusing the outrange this is causing, when most of the community laughed at relic holders.
Where the *** were you? People complained about that all the way up until the Dynamis adjustments and Plates trial, some even after.
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 Odin.Articuno
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By Odin.Articuno 2011-12-21 23:14:03
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This guy who made it will have first class ticket to Hell
man nerf nerf nerf if thay want us to hate the game just shut down it
1000 item for relic 99
nerf
what next?
charge us 100USD?
 Alexander.Vivicide
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By Alexander.Vivicide 2011-12-21 23:21:50
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Asura.Arkanethered said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »
What i want to know is were was the outrage when relics orginally got ***on by empyreans.

I dont agree with any nerf but i find it slightly amusing the outrange this is causing, when most of the community laughed at relic holders.


A lot of us were completely outraged... The only problem was there were so few of us at the time that we could not make enough noise for SE to care.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It just so happens that retards seem to squeak the most. Then retards cry when they get their way because it was so stupid to begin with. They want game breaking items but then cry when something is broken. 99% of people don't really want what they think they want.
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