The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

Updating some things in the spreadsheets, decided to check on dnc (added geo buffs/debuffs, fixed Soul Voice bug).

Best direct DPS I can get on dnc vs Tojil is about 875. Compare this to 1100+ for mnk or drk, or 1200+ for sam.

On the other hand, dnc adds the following:

13% def down, which is pretty massive at the debuff levels being used (20% Dia, Angon, geo's Frailty). It's possible to get at least some of this effect from other jobs subbing dnc (eg: cor/dnc, drg/dnc), but is usually more awkward, not always sustainable, and in some cases reduces the job's native damage capabilities.

-24 evasion, and/or +7% crit rate (depending on whether you can keep 3 step effects going), both of which are fairly decent effects, and can impact how others gear.

10% JA haste for one party, which means DDs can drop to ~15%-20% gear haste, which may or may not be useful.


Now, putting a dnc in in place of another job with higher native DPS capabilities means it needs to generate sufficient indirect damage to make up that difference. Figure about 300 DPS split among the other 5 DDs means 60 DPS per DD.

13% def down can be 240 DPS (if not reaching cap). Maybe 40 DPS per step, aside from the first.
7% crit rate is about 25 DPS.
24 acc can be signficant, but assuming the DD is already capping with a bit of buffer, is more likely to only allow for maybe 10-20 DPS change in gear swaps.


In other words, it has the potential to contribute a combined direct+indirect amount of damage to match or exceed a stronger DD. Whether or not it can actually accomplish that depends on various other factors.

The downsides are lower HP, and figuring out where to put them within the limited DD slots (generally just 6 positions).

For Tojil, having 2 mnks per party for Mantra and Formless Strikes is usually a base requirement. One of the other DD slots is going to be the drg, which leaves just 1 spot for the remaining DD. That's usually allocated to drk or war to take advantage of the slashing weakness period, so dnc is pretty much left out. Shark is similar, though a bit less strict.

The bee is actually the one that would probably be the easiest to fit dnc in, given that it seems you want a variety of damage types being used. Rngs are good for piercing, and the boss fight goes fast with them, but tend to be much slower on the first 5 NMs. Setting up something like mnk/mnk (blunt, magic), drg/dnc (piercing), sam/war/drk (slashing) to balance things out would probably make the zone as a whole much easier.

Does the -10 evasion from pyrrhic kleos get resisted on NM like tojil? you could probably add that to the -24 if it doesn't

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to too, except that it's much simpler for the alliance to just do the NMs without DNC's contributions (Def down, inconsistent Eva down, 10% Haste for only your party). Properly buffed melee either have capped Ratio/Hit Rate in Delve or they're pretty darned close. They'll be even closer after the next patch.

...Not to mention that all of our benefits except the last 5% of Haste Samba can be given by any other job subbing DNC. I'm fairly sure that if you compared the DPS of a SAM/DNC to DNC, SAM would come out way ahead and still be able to debuff crap and give 5% Haste Samba. This fact pretty much eliminates any potential remaining endgame use for Dancer.


The job needs some severe adjusting and I don't think it will ever get done.

I tanked Hurkan for an extended period on DNC and it was pretty fun. Pretty sure I "wtf'd" half the server.

I'll be DNCing it up to Bee tomorrow! I'll take a video. ( Bee is piercing weak 100% of the time it seems). Additionally, Bee is not damage intensive at all so the lower HP isn't much of an issue. For the one NM where HP would be an issue in tht zone (Scorpion) you use Scherzo and DNC's low HP is mitigated.

Magic evasion on Uk'uxkaj cap and Buremte gloves have been pretty amazing in my experience for not getting wrecked by AOE compared to people that dont.
It makes me badly want more magic eva gear in other slots now.

Since people are generally down on dancer and considering it kinda useless, I brought dancer to tojil tonight and it was a success. Got 2 wins.

Just a few notes:

Dnc/war can replace a paladin on holding mata, easy to solo hold+self heal while everyone else kills raptor+eft and have mata prepped for killing. Eva+(pdt in accessory slots)+defender/fandance and tav taco.

No issues safely pulling Tojil with defender+fandance, I do the pull since i'm replacing a PLD role basically. In the event of 1-2 links I just pulled them in the back past the mages and soloed them quickly while the rest of the alliance started on tojil before I rejoined them.

I was in the monk party, so they could benefit from haste samba - Drg was able to come /sam instead and put in the other party. Kept myself busy box/stutter/feather stepping and divine waltz II'ing after Tojil got some heavy AoE/spells off a few times.
Felt good to change several peoples opinion of the job's usefulness in delve.

That's sort of what I do in Delve except I go DNC/SAM and I don't use Divine II since our WHMs don't have any healing trouble so "helping" them is actually costing them MP.

Oh, I also don't sac but yeah :<

Sylow, where do I get flaming Oatixur like I saw in your Spellcast for French Idiots 101 video!!!

Well, when you enter Cirdas_U, you know how sometimes you see that "subtle mumble" message? Well, very rarely you will instead see "Your ears pick up what seems to be a Lady Gaga song on repeat." If you reach the boss on that run, Gay Tojil will spawn in place of regular Tojil. Defeat him to get Flaming Oatixur.

.... I think I lost brain cells from reading that.

(It's a .dat swap)

Dancer . . . wabbits!

They should have made white rabbits. DNC/WAR and let carrot be the "waltz"

All monsters seem to be the initial set of jobs. No SAM, NIN, etc. have been reported yet.

We need a Ninja Ladybug RIGHT. NOW.

Ladybug hits like a truck and never gets hit. I imagine the RDM variant will be nigh invincible. Well, not like any mob is far from invincible but still.

Out of curiousuty, for those who continue to use dancer for new content, under any curcumstances withe newly added skill only apply too the hand uts wielded in. Would single wielding wirh a izi or aphotic provide higher dps than dual wielding a higher and lower off hand?

So, I know it's lolDNC nowadays but I still think the job is fun..

Anyway, any consensus on the best TP set for DNC nowadays?

ItemSet 311630

is what I'm using, not sure if Thaumas body/windbuffet wins over Charis Casaque +2/Twilight, or if Iuitl pieces beat Manibozho now. Also.. Exenterator/Evisc builds?

Since I just got the dagger drop anyone have some latest sets they care to share with the skirmish gear in the mix? I may just buy a off hand dagger and give dnc more play on solo content again. Been testing run for fun maybe time to go old school again all those stats a cw2/3 must be sweet as hell.

I currently run with a mainhand Forefront dagger, and offhand my STR Thokcha, which gives me better results, I feel, then when I tried offhanding my Aluh. The delay on the Aluh hurts too much for the attack, STR, and crits to be worth it.

Yeah aluh time has passed can't see any dagger without the insane combat skill even being viable in today's game tho. Looking at another Aphotic Kukri or skirmish one and duel weild them both strength pass.

This morning I looked at Waltz sets for the first time in forever and noticed that Iuitl Gaiters are better for Waltz than a Cure Potency +4% augmented pair of Dance Shoes. Uk' Cap is better than HQ augment Khepri Bonnet if you're targeting yourself. These things are true with or without Toetapper Mantle.

Yeah, it's really nice that a lot of SoA pieces you'll want on you anyway are great for Waltzes, resulting in less inventory space taken up for gear that's Waltz only.

A few other SoA pieces worth noting:

- Whirlpool Mask is extremely close behind Uk'uxkaj if you only have that (CHR+19 vs. CHR+23, and same VIT+22 on both). We're talking single digit HP worth of difference. Looking at self-cures, both of them easily beat Khepri and Etoile+2 in my sets on Waltz3, and are just barely behind Khepri on Waltz5 (less than 10hp behind in my sets, which even if I did have the thing would be hard for me to justify the inventory -1)

- The entire Iuitl set has good amounts of CHR and VIT.

- Nahtirah Trousers are also very good (best legs option?) with CHR+11/VIT+16.

For what it's worth, recast Anwig still retains a lot more value for /DNC since those jobs have less potency gear and halved formula multiplier. Recast time is likely more valuable there than marginally stronger Waltz3. Obviously also still great for Healing Waltz.

My current set below, any ideas for possible improvements?

Ammo: Sonia's Plectrum
Head: Uk'uxkaj
Neck: Dualism Collar
Ear1: Roundel Earring
Ear2: Skald Breloque
Body: Dnc. Casaque +1
Hands: Iuitl Wristbands
Ring1: Valseur's Ring
Ring2: Asklepian Ring (which I just use as a default since I'm usually solo when I'm DNC, but yeah could switch this out for a CHR ring)
Back: Etoile Cape (no Toetapper yet for me)
Waist: Aristo Belt
Legs: Nahtirah Trousers
Feet: Iuitl Gaiters

Sometimes I'm not even sure why I bother with the pieces that are only a few CHR that I don't carry for any other reason. Even dropping all of Skald/Dualism/Etoile Cape/Aristo, in my sets the loss of 22 CHR makes about a 20hp difference in Waltz3, about a 16hp difference in Waltz5. I still max out my sets when I have room, but if I was hard pressed for inventory space or changing quick it's probably not all that important.

Also: Why the hell couldn't Charis earring have given a couple points of Waltz potency? :P

Buremte gloves are slightly better. 2 VIT 1 CHR more. And hearing Uk'uxkaj beats Khepri makes me sad. :( Another piece of Hexed -1 I have that's useless. ;_; Down to 3 pieces of useful Hexed -1.

can anyone poste an up-to-date tp and ws set for me?

I've been away for a while. DL'd the most recent DPS spreadsheet and played around for a bit. Not sure what people are using for target Mob these days, I just stuck with Delve Fodder, since I assume Dnc isn't used on anything higher than that, it's probably just a solo for fun job these days.

Anywho, my baseline was Dnc/War, Hume, no food, no buffs, just Haste Samba + Ionis.
I don't know all of the new gear, so if there's some stuff I missed I apologize.

ItemSet 314625

*Rancour Mantle slightly beats Atheling (.3 DPS), both beat Letalis and Toetapper.

*Legs and Feet both have to be Rank 15 to beat out Iuitl alternates.
*Whirlpool Mask is ahead of the Uk'uxkaj by 3 DPS, and has eclipsed Thura head by 10 DPS.


~~~
Added in food for curiosity and it seems, that Manibozo Gloves, jump ahead of Iuitl by 4 DPS with Yellow Curry Buns.
Also of note, with food, Rancorous Mantle no longer beats Atheling.

Edit:
Just noticed all of the Iuitl gear in the DPS is Un-Augmented.
I'd have to plug in the Crit or DA stat manually for each piece to see if they could then jump ahead of the Manibozho alternatives.


But assuming we're solo'ing anyways, the most important question, is whether the DPS of Manibozho is worth the loss of Eva from Iuitl. Add on top of that, the augmentable -PDT as well, and it's quite possible the Iuitl set is simply better for solo play.


Edit2:

Hands/Legs/Feet of Manibozho vs Iuitl

Iuitl offers +33 Evasion
As well as +36 Agi for another 18 Eva (51 Eva total)
+30 Vitality
+29 Defense
and with Augments can give another -9% to -12% Physical Damage Taken

This comes at the loss of 15 DPS though, of which you can cut this loss down to 7DPS if you get 1% DA augment on each piece of Iuitl. If you're lucky enough to get 2% DA on all 3 pieces (6% total) then the DPS difference is down to 0.2

cool thanks for the info. Hope they make af3 +2 usefull again cos its prety sad that all jobs now shine with the skirmish gear :/
All ye have to do now is get all skirmish gear and weapons +1 and all jobs 99 and yer all set for the game.

Af, relic and af3 gear is now mostly used for abilities poeple use.

Soo, I haven't played since August and now I have to get dressed. Which means my item sets will probably be updated this week :(

Before you spend 500k on gouged malboro fiber, Maxixi upgrade process is bugged at the moment.

So whats the verdict on unlocking rudra's and using it if you dont have a twashtar already made?
Always been under the impression that twashtar owners had to commit to using climactic flourish+presto in their self sc for it to be a good ws.

I enjoy the relative simplicity of just needing 4-5 finishing moves, 100tp and reverse flourish up to pull off Phyrric Kleos->Evisceration.