Tachi: Shoha

Yeah, about the STR thing...I uh, didn't think that one right either. For some reason I was thinking adding more STR from Cruor Buffs would cap fSTR, and that any additional atmas would be pointless. Turns out I was mixing up my facts. Let's just say my head was in a weird, weird place. :x

From that SS you got 11 thumbs up, so at least you know bolding stuff works.

I love it how people say "Sams are back as top ultimate DDs", "before Abyssea, when only SAMs reigned supreme"...

For real... these people have even played SAM before the bandwagon?

A quick recap of SAM through the years of what comes to mind:

2003/4/5 - EXP Parties: No sushi (for awhile), lack of viable acc gear (except for Hauby, Pcc and Snipers; those used to cost millions even on NQ version). Finding a party as SAM through this period was horrible. I remember one special Sunday where I spent 6-7 hours waiting to get a party, using the search function, asking people, etc etc...

2004/5/6 - Merit Parties: No Dual Wield? No Manaburn? No Arrow Burn? Then GTFO.

2004/5/Early '06 - The Sky Gods years. Get your /thf sub on and go SATA the tanks. Sams had an edge? Yes, thanks to meditate. Was it OMGSOSUPERIOR? No, not at all. Kirin? Ow yes, the one who used to be kited. Of course, you could still go as Sam/Thf and try your best but, at most, you'd be taking the spot of a proper ranger, summoner or black mage who would be able to perform a lot better.

2005-2008 - Ground HNMs: Tiamat. Ow sure! Go dump your TP and TA your Tank, after that you may return to the adds party. Fun!

2005-2008 - Dynamis: Surely it was fun playing SAM during dynamis. Store TP and Meditate would make things a little bit easier. Dynamis Lord, on the other hand, was never something sam would shine. Proper Rangers, Dark Knights and Monks would take the lead.

200X - Limbus, Campaign, Nyzul Isle: Fun, But that's about it.

...and then, the Bandwagon hit SAM. Hasso, Seigan, boost to 2H WSs. And later, Sekkanoki. It was an awesome addition for most melee jobs, but people were already greedy at that time that SAM was getting so many good abilities. It all came nicely and SAM became a popular SJ for most melee jobs. The era of melee-zerg was upon us. Everything changed. But still, even during those Bahamut v2s and Melee-burn Kirins, WARs and RNGs were never put to shame against SAM. Balance was there. SAM became a nice main job for merit parties. SAMs and WARs would parse very well together on those Kirin burns. On Bahamut V2s RNG would do better coz the battle would end so fast SAMs couldnt even finish their 2hrs. SAMs became particularly useful against Sea Gods (with the sole exception of non-melee-burn JoL).

...and then came Salvage, and the bandwagon left for MNK. SAM was always a very nice 2nd option; but MNK was the king of salvage, no comments on this.

...and then came Abyssea. Do I need to write down the utility of SAM inside abyssea? I think it's pretty fresh on everybodys memories.

During all these years WARs (nowadays), SAMs (for a short time), MNKs, RNGs, BLMs were all, at some point, part of the bandwagon. Maybe it's time for SAM to be the leading bandwagon again, maybe it's not.

I would like the people who say SAMs "being back on top as the sole ultimate DD" to actually justify their answers, because I am clearly playing a completely, totally different game.

Has anyone actually said in this thread SAM is the best DDer now? I cant remember the earlier stuff anymore ; ;

I dont get this either, I always use RR on SAM and have no idea why anyone would not. Unless im missing something?

Actually from Seigan-on, SAM was able to tank anything in the game if the player didn't suck, and tank it well. It was also a boss in Salvage, only losing out before you got weapons in the box/there was a box. MNK was still great, yeah, but that was mainly because you fought trash mobs. SAM pulled ahead for the NM's/bosses.

And you didn't SA/TA the tank in the earlier years, you used Meditate to Spirits Within next to the Chi Blasting MNK.

It's everywhere, and on the last page as well >.>


Seigan only wasnt able to make a regular SAM stand out against, let's say, Salvage bosses. But well geared SAMs could. But still, MNK was the 1st option.

Ow yes, Spirits Within... but with time, even that became obsolete (quite quickly actually).

Quote it for me, I never spotted it and its late here. I'm about to jump into bed.

My comments mention SAM being top teir outside of abyssea which it always has. Not sure about pre-2008 never played before that, but I never said or even hinted that "SAM is back on top as the sole ultimate DD"

That's what I thought too, but it seems like a SAM 4-Hit only offers very little in the way of TP phase, so putting more effort toward WS Potency with Shoha fills the white damage gap I guess? That's my theory anyways

Sam was king of colibri. Those were good days.

As goes for any DD. Didn't play at this time, so I can't say who was better though.
No comment here. See above/just started in '06.
Still better.
Regardless of "fun" or not. It was still effect, not to mention SC/MBs.
Drks were only better with 2hr and multi-hit weapons. Not that common. SAM was still a competitor to MNK and RNG though.

There again, has nothing to do with if it was fun or not. If SAM is good at it, then it's good at it.
Maybe I didn't play with good RNGs, but SAM, DRK, WAR would do better in my groups, even drg would be chosen over RNG for Angon.
Agreed.
Sure, I'll agree there's been multiple bandwagon jobs, but it doesn't change the fact that SAM has always be "up there", if not on top. As for what we are going into, I don't actually believe SAM will take the top spot, but it will still be up there and who knows, maybe it will take the top spot again.

Hmm well even if im spamming shoha I would put AM3 up with fudo first. Meaning RR would have a massive effect on my normal melee swings. Also if I was replacing RR it most certainly would not be with another STR atma. Would either go more trip att or a straight WS boost atma maybe.

Quick question, 4hit? as in 5 hits > ws > 4 > ws? Just I would call that a 5hit so not to confuse people (me):p. I 5hit and still rock RR. I'm not 5/5 shoha yet so been sticking to fudo so no idea if I'm missing some crucial point yet.

Drakegoons were great on them, but couldnt keep up with a properly geared pole sam. Penta w/ overwhelm and the increased ws rate = winrar for Sam.

There are 3 kinds of bandwagons:
1. DD bandwagon
2. Tanking bandwagon
3. Support bandwagon

What intrigues me is DD bandwagons is almost always the most obnoxious ones over time. Maybe they pretty much revolve at the very center core of this game. Even jobs like THF DNC and BLU cares how they rank in this chart.

I think I must in some way thankful the devs for shifting the gameplay from damage rush game into a senile way thanks to good-but-crappy proc mechanism.

I disagree. I've always found the tanking bandwagons to be the most obnoxious. Everyone gets in their head that they're the new best paladin/ninja/red mage/whatever around and they should be allowed to tank LS events and, if not allowed, are going to either no show or hang around being sullen because they can't play their new favorite thing all the time and be the first to get all the great gear for their new favorite thing. This happens to some degrees with DDs as well, but generally you only need 1-2 tanks for most events – if that – and you can make room for a few more DDs.

I admit. This comes from someone who’s wife is a career paladin who has had to deal with countless people deciding that they’re a better paladin/other-job tank than her. And then they change their mind two months down the road and want to go back to being the uber-whatever-else that has come along. I am very bias on this topic. But I can pretty objectively say that it does happen a lot.

That said, in what bandwagon DDs lack in obnoxious, they normally make up for in complete idiocy.

Get back on topic.

What!?

MNKs would rip any salvage boss a new one. If anything it was opposite. PA SAM owning the fodder and the MNKs owning the bosses.

If anyone has a specific set that is THE set i sure would like to see it. Also what would the most beneficial atmas if you were to go into abyssea. thanks in advance!!

Pretty much using the same set as my Kaiten set at this point. I don't have Twilight Mail (0/30+ at this point, I stopped counting). VWNMs hate me with a passion. Will buy an Avant+1 body/legs once I can find them on the AH and it isn't massively overpriced.

Only 3/5 thusfar, been pretty busy with the holidays and the like. But even at 3/5 it's been spiking higher than Kaiten. Though Kaiten has been consistently better.

To the limited extent I've had a chance to use it in Abyssea, I'm going Apoc/VV/RR, same as I always have.

This pretty much what I want to aim.

A couple point of dilemmas :
Avant's Mail +1 vs Ace's Mail : 8 STR 12 accuracy vs 3 DA is very close, except Ace's produce average more stable than Avant. But when acc matters, I think Ace's can serve better.

Unkai Kote +2 vs Heafoc's Mitts : I've argued about the importance on accuracy, especially I wanted to build the WS around DA+

Rajas vs Pyrosoul : I think if you find your TP set is excessive, you can releive the 5 STP on Rajas with 2 STR, though the difference is very small

Atheling Mantle vs Unkai Sugemino : I simply wants the 3% DA. As shown above 3 DA kinda overtake the 8STR and 12 acc. Probably Unkai is more attractive on high def mob.

Hachiryu Haidate vs Avant's Cuisses +1 : same DA reasoning

+15 from gear, +10 from /WAR -> 25% DA
I hope there are more DA gear available for us to WS with.

8 Str is a LOT

Close to what I'm thinking for ideal too, with most of the same thoughts. Though I will say if you want ideal, the Moonshade is going to be better than the Vulcan's Pearl, ne?

I know there are still debates ragin over utility of regain vs. TP bonus on that, though.

Not 100% sold on any of the dilemmas yet. But that's a respectable set to shoot for either way, though I think I'm leaning more toward the consistency of more STR vs. the DA. But...who knows. Build both sets and decide whether you want consistency or epeen at any given moment!

i stopped using heafoc and varangian helm, use unkai hands and twilight helm. i need mekiro head and faz body to make me at least content. im averaging 3k on besieged nm mobs i dont know if thats great or i still need more gear to make it shine more

Which in translates to about 50-60+ damage of 2.4k~2.5k damage.

I'll use that damage to roll more on double attack randomizer... which if I hit jackpot, I got 700 more damage.

Yes, but I'll leave that since people has personal preference on which job of theirs got more priority.

I used to think that way. But in the end I like equipping Atheling and Epona's ring a lot for WSing (on other jobs, I mean). The DA'd WS number is alluring.

Yeah sorry. I don't pick on peoples gear TOO much (unless it's like full aurore). I meant more like "that's tough to stomach letting go", not "you're doing it wrong".

I'm an abyssea burned sam who uses it once a year. I don't know my job well enough to comment at all.

Well, this is a two-hit weaponskill, too. I've been rocking Kaiten for so long now that I'm in that one-hit mindset all the time. I know it was parsed and mathed and proven long ago that, at least as far as the mantle goes, Unkai > Atheling in overall DOT. But I think the difference was fairly small and that may change for two-hitters. I’m not really the best in the game math department.

Like I said, if you’re able, I’d advocate keeping both sets handy. I’ll be doing so anyhow just because of Kaiten.

Edit: That is, of course, if I can get Ace's/etc. in the first place. VWNMs seem to hate me with a passion. Haven't received a single body drop yet since the damn content was first released.

Since getting my moonshade with 4 att/tp bonus I have never looked back. Are gorget/belt going to have a dramatic increase over justiciar's and beir belt +1?

Probably going to end up buying Avant+1 body as I'm sick to death of logwatch but would rather ace's mail in the long run. Need to ditch so much -acc gear from my current sets but will probably stick with havoc mitts also.

Sneaky edit, had ace's drop tonight so not buying avant +1 :D

The set I was using for these.
Was using Yellow curry buns, normal VW DD temps.



This is my Shoha set now.