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Tachi: Shoha
 Bismarck.Aerison
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Bismarck.Aerison 2011-12-17 04:14:23
I think that gorget comparison only works for certain types of WS (mainly 1 hit WS, no?), not all at the very least. I don't think its quite as cut and dry. And I don't think that general rule applies to these WS, as we've never had a 100% stat mod WS before.
Also: heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about.
That sounds very skeptic, tbh.
Yea I realize that, just a rule of thumb I guess that I always follow. Damage comparator suggests that gorgets will beat justice/justiciar/ire/+1
while elemental belts do not beat beir +1 or nq for that matter.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 91
By Odin.Machorz 2011-12-17 04:38:22
I can remember,when I said to my endgame shell: hope SE give us new WS and all Masamune ppl told me: That wont never happen,SE never would do that to everyone who made an Emp.-Weapon
yet,I am the one who had right lol
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 510
By Asura.Vrytreya 2011-12-17 04:58:36
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
Bismarck.Aerison
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Bismarck.Aerison 2011-12-17 05:16:55
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets.
edit:
since we showing epeens
that was done in the lolgorget btw
[+]
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2255
By Odin.Llewelyn 2011-12-17 05:46:41
Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 510
By Asura.Vrytreya 2011-12-17 05:51:19
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets. Which part of my calculation in previous page is incomprehensible?
Bismarck.Aerison
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Bismarck.Aerison 2011-12-17 05:58:24
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets. Which part of my calculation in previous page is incomprehensible? Completely skipped it my fault, so the ftp for gorgets and belts apply to both hits then? Pretty cool
 Valefor.Booster
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24
By Valefor.Booster 2011-12-17 07:26:25
ATMAs for Shoha? What you guys all using?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 510
By Asura.Vrytreya 2011-12-17 08:35:04
so the ftp for gorgets and belts apply to both hits then? Pretty cool For Shoha, I don't think it is. Since Shoha initial fTP doesn't go to subsequent hit.
 Quetzalcoatl.Artichaos
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 83
By Quetzalcoatl.Artichaos 2011-12-17 09:31:09
Just quickly anyone having problems with making the WS into a macro, i spelt everything correctly and each time i get an error :/
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2011-12-17 09:38:47
Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better?
Depends on what that att is doing.
Valefor.Booster
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24
By Valefor.Booster 2011-12-17 09:48:41
Ok, so decided to give it a go, got it 1/5 to start with and joined a bee party so i could do my keito trial and play with ws at the same time ^^ Now, i haven't looked after my sam and its poorly geared but even so with crap gear and buns i was still consistently pulling alot of 3k+ Shohas and managed to get a few over 4 and a few over 5k, this is my best one.
Can't wait to see what is possible with 5/5, some better gear and fully upgraded Keito............NUTS!! O.o
p.s inb4 lolweakabysseamobs....
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-17 11:22:03
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets.
that was done in the lolgorget btw I actually heard the "gorget adds 15 str" as well, back when people were comparing justice torque to gorgets for YGK @75.
Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better?
Depends on what that att is doing.
According to BG tests Shoha has an attack bonus like YGK, so it would come down to Da+2% vs 2 STR. I'd personally go with Hachi, but I don't have any math to back it up.
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2011-12-17 11:52:51
I'm hearing a lot of talk about the tp bonus gkt, will it outperform 90 masa in WS damage (let's just assume both are using shoha).
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-17 12:01:51
I'm hearing a lot of talk about the tp bonus gkt, will it outperform 90 masa in WS damage (let's just assume both are using shoha). If only they made the final stage of the TP bonus GK look like Hagun. :/
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2011-12-17 12:09:36
I'm hearing a lot of talk about the tp bonus gkt, will it outperform 90 masa in WS damage (let's just assume both are using shoha). If only they made the final stage of the TP bonus GK look like Hagun. :/
I kind of miss the ol meat cleaver as well :(
[+]
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2011-12-17 12:21:01
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about. I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones. lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets. that was done in the lolgorget btw I actually heard the "gorget adds 15 str" as well, back when people were comparing justice torque to gorgets for YGK @75. Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better? Depends on what that att is doing. According to BG tests Shoha has an attack bonus like YGK, so it would come down to Da+2% vs 2 STR. I'd personally go with Hachi, but I don't have any math to back it up.
If its a gekko bonus, i'd go with hachi too, if its a Y/K bonus the attack could be useful.
Quetzalcoatl.Artichaos
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 83
By Quetzalcoatl.Artichaos 2011-12-17 12:23:50
New TP bonus seems to add a extremely nice amount of DMG to Shoha :D
Bismarck.Fonseca
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 73
By Bismarck.Fonseca 2011-12-17 12:28:21
What weapon should I go for? Amano or Masa? Oh wait SE is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE I should just level Tachi: Shoha and I will be better then all those jokes who got their Empyreans and relics. -.-
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-17 12:29:24
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about. I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones. lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets. that was done in the lolgorget btw I actually heard the "gorget adds 15 str" as well, back when people were comparing justice torque to gorgets for YGK @75. Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better? Depends on what that att is doing. According to BG tests Shoha has an attack bonus like YGK, so it would come down to Da+2% vs 2 STR. I'd personally go with Hachi, but I don't have any math to back it up.
If its a gekko bonus, i'd go with hachi too, if its a Y/K bonus the attack could be useful. It depends on what attack gear you have already as well. 'Cause even if it just mimics Yukikaze, a 50% attack bonus is still huge; and don't forget Hachi has 5 attack(& 1.5 from the 2 extra STR) making it only fall behind by 5.5 Atk.
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2011-12-17 12:29:50
I was just about to start on Cara today for masa :(. Guess I'll wait until more tests are up to see if it really is useless now.
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2011-12-17 12:35:13
Quick math shows TPbonus GKT(95) with 15% better WS damage then Masa (90)for Shoha at 100tp. Obviously using Sekka, haga and any overage in TP will pull that spread down.
Masa should remain SAMs best weapon if you can keep Fudo AM up. Voidwatch Wing > Fudo > Shoha spam for 3min, repeat.
Amano users got a nice buff, they'll have to tweak gear to 5hit with no AM but thats not a big loss nowadays.
Edit: Nothing touches Mythic but I have never seen one in game. A few exist however.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-17 12:37:29
I don't believe Masa would be that far behind, just use Fudo to keep aftermath up and use Shoha otherwise. Your WS numbers won't be as high as neo-hagun's, but DoT could pull ahead. Same goes for Amano and I read somewhere that Mythic GK basically blows everything out of the water now.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-12-17 12:43:32
How would the high dmg OAT trial gkt be for this?
Vs tp bonus one mainly
(cba to make emp for my mule)
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 306
By Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn 2011-12-17 12:43:58
just curious, best case for fudo(cap atk) does it still fall behind?
Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2011-12-17 12:46:48
I don't believe Masa would be that far behind, just use Fudo to keep aftermath up and use Shoha otherwise. Your WS numbers won't be as high as neo-hagun's, but DoT could pull ahead. Same goes for Amano and I read somewhere that Mythic GK basically blows everything out of the water now.
Wait what's so good about mythic gkt now? For some reason I always heard it was trash haha.
Leviathan.Snakeslice
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 169
By Leviathan.Snakeslice 2011-12-17 12:52:20
Comparing a straight ftp bonus such as gorget to str, is the same as comparing MAB to int. Depending on the situation you can make assumptions such as gorget~15 str but you can not always assume that, lots of wses have lots of different ftp mods.
In the case of Shoha and assuming using the +100tp GK you are already looking at a base ftp of 2.15+1(tho I do not know if gorget/belt effects 2nd hit). I'm a bit too busy to do the calculations right now but eyeballing it with about 170str before neck/waist, the .2ftp bonus would be equal to about 15str total (not each).
So in the case of this high ftp and high str mod WS, the str may actually be better, but I couldn't tell you an actual answer with doing all the correct math.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-12-17 12:56:00
I don't believe Masa would be that far behind, just use Fudo to keep aftermath up and use Shoha otherwise. Your WS numbers won't be as high as neo-hagun's, but DoT could pull ahead. Same goes for Amano and I read somewhere that Mythic GK basically blows everything out of the water now.
Wait what's so good about mythic gkt now? For some reason I always heard it was trash haha. I can't remember where I read it, but having high DMG riding the OA2-3 basically destroys DoT wise.
Edit: feels impossible to search for it because people either refer to it as mythic or koga(which brings up so much about ninja relic xD).
Bismarck.Aerison
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Bismarck.Aerison 2011-12-17 13:21:24
Gorget is roughly worth 15 str, heard that somewhere on here, from someone who knew what they were talking about. I don't care about stuff from people who knew what they are talking about.
I care how the argument can be presented. Gorget is hardly worth 15 STR. And definitely not for a WS with base damage as freaky as new ones.
lol okay tiger, was just what I was told long time ago, might/probably have changed. Please prove me wrong! i'll gladly adjust my gear sets.
that was done in the lolgorget btw Anyone know if Avant Cuisses +1 or Hachiryu Haidate would perform better?
Depends on what that att is doing.
According to BG tests Shoha has an attack bonus like YGK, so it would come down to Da+2% vs 2 STR. I'd personally go with Hachi, but I don't have any math to back it up.
Wasn't just blowing smoke up y'alls *** lol
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 510
By Asura.Vrytreya 2011-12-17 13:21:40
Leviathan.Snakeslice said: »So in the case of this high ftp and high str mod WS, the str may actually be better, but I couldn't tell you an actual answer with doing all the correct math. Uhhh no. Adding 10 STR to 100 STR gives you less boost than giving it to 90 STR. This should be obvious without any calculation.
I don't believe Masa would be that far behind, just use Fudo to keep aftermath up and use Shoha otherwise. Your WS numbers won't be as high as neo-hagun's, but DoT could pull ahead. Same goes for Amano and I read somewhere that Mythic GK basically blows everything out of the water now.
Wait what's so good about mythic gkt now? For some reason I always heard it was trash haha. I can't remember where I read it, but having high DMG riding the OA2-3 basically destroys DoT wise.
Edit: feels impossible to search for it because people either refer to it as mythic or koga(which brings up so much about ninja relic xD). I really want to hear the real argument on this. SAM is more of WS spamming machine than DoT (far from it, in fact). If there's a favorable condition where keeping OA2-3 attack most of the time, the fight must be long and extremely lenient.
Doing 2-3k Outside abbysea and 4-5k inside, Outside im testing inside Dynamis...
Current TP set.
And WS.
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