Upheaval Thoughts

I was also wondering this, as pizza should close the accuracy gap, but then you may not be able to cap attack.

Thanks for all the replies though-- really great to see a thorough/recent discussion of this. It looks like I might have a new project :p

We all use RCB. For mobs we know we'll be having acc problems on, we save feint/ES impact/aggressor.

I did the Legion chamber with the Ixions today, if you remove the times I was flashed or whatever from the white Ixion, my ACC was actually capped using Ukon, RCB, Hasso, Aggressor, Faint, Madrigal and this TP set:

with Ghillie+1 instead of Ravagers earring.

This leads me to think everyone's avid obsession with ZOMG MY ACC SUCKS isn't really true, or they're just bad, or I got retardedly lucky. This is the second time this has happened to me, and I've only parsed that chamber twice. Even if you leave the flashes in from the 2 Alicorns, my ACC was at 86%.

http://files.bluegartr.com/7dadc70cba701485c72b8eaf1358c24d.zip
If you have kparser I uploaded the saved file to BG. Please ignore the two really bad Upheavals though, lol.

things to note for discussion's sake: SV gjallar madrigal and faint.

This bit of information will probably help someone somewhere, so Im posting it.

156 damage weapon
175~ STR during TP
1670~ attack
335~ melee damage average

After accounting for AM1, thats about 254dmg. Guess the mobs have on average 110 vit. 156+16=172. 254/172=1.48~. assuming legion mobs have 750 or less defense, that would put them at 2.25-1.48=.77, .77/.05=15.4 which would put the average WoTG chamber mob somewhere around lvl 115? Hardly a through well controlled test, but possibly.

I would expect the Legion mobs to have higher VIT honestly, more in the 130+ range.

I have been kind of let down with upheaval numbers against higher def mobs. On fodder mods etc, no prob. But on VW, even with buffs and temp items I basically get trashed on ws wise. I get lows around 1200 and highs....about 3200. 3200 very rare.
I think I have fairly good equip. I can list it later when I am not on my phone.
I guess I'm wondering is it me or is the ws just not good against higher mobs or what? Any help appreciated.
Using 95 bravura.

Get an Ukon, Upheaval is for Mighty Strikes onry.

Working on 90 now...
Was deciding between that or rag haha

Hmmm when not having a Ragnarok and not planing to get one in the near future, what is the better 2hr WS for WAR? Upheaval with Ukon (working on getting it to 95/99 atm) or a No-Relic-Greatsword Resolution? atm i only have kriegsmesser as GS for WAR but could buy the etourdissante if it would be good for MS. Want to drop down Merits in other WS's and get Resolution or Upheaval for WAR, depending what is better for my situation.

Jingang Greatsword. Easy to X hit, and has good base damage.

?

did you read my question at all? I am not asking about a weaker GS then the weak ones i posted, i wanted to know which WS is better for 2hr on WAR in the situation i described above so i know where to toss my merits in now.

In Short.. which Merit WS for 2hour on WAR with Ukon99 (lets say 99, cause my ukon 90 war rarly sees light of day anyways w) vs a not-ragnarok-GS Resolution.

I am relatively sure ukon99 wins, especially if you are in any situation where you have AM3.

Upheaval with 99 ukon, using anything less than DA GS and you're just wasting your time.

What DA GS's could a WAR wear? Or you mean Mercurial Sword?

Ok thx for the awnsers, i thought Upheaval would be better but just wanted to be sure before tossing my Merits into it w. Dont have either of those WS's unlocked atm so no clue how strong they really can be on WAR 2hr ><

99 Rag > 99 Ukon > everything else, and Rag > Ukon by a very small margin. Rag will have higher WS DMG, Ukon will have more potent white damage.

You're better off sticking to Ukon until you can get Ragna. Unless you're going for epeen WS numbers.

Assuming absolute max buffs: Berserk/Aggressor/Warcry(assuming savagery merits)/Chaos11+Fighter11/SV Minuetx3/Embrava500, 99 Ragna is neck and neck with 99Ukon with AM3, with Ragna slightly winning by nearly 2.6%. As Kaerin mentioned earlier, adding anything else that pushes WS frequency higher or you can't maintain AM3(because Reso averages 1000 more than upheaval), Ragna/Reso's advantage increases.

atm i am tossing my money into plates to get Ukon 95/99.. i dont really plan to make a Ragnarok atm w i know i could just make one instad of getting Ukon to 99 but i really just like the hammer (And gwad i hate WS Trials..... those kill me D: Ukon i can make from Jeuno :3 )

Probably aren't accounting for Warcry/Savagery, which benefits Reso more(more hits in reso for more chances to boost ftp). Blood Rage is also a huge boost to Ukon's white damage, so losing that to Warcry is a big hit for it.

With the buffs I listed in the post above, there's only a 13% difference in WS rates. Adding in Sam's roll and regain for both, Ragna's lead increases.

I was suggesting the Jingang as a better alternative to the two greatswords you listed. Not answering your question because I did not have the answer.

*Edit* Erm, forget I said anything. <_<;

I was referring to question of 99ukon vs AH GS. Didn't mean for that to come across as me arguing ukon vs ragna, my fault for not quoting what I was answering.

I have a couple questions regarding Kaerin's capped attack MS Upheaval set (below). First, would you swap to Brave Grip if you were already in the middle of fighting? Second, how far ahead of Hecatomb Mitts +1 with a 4% Crit. Hit Damage augment are Phorcys Mitts? I'm trying to gauge if the 4 Crit. Hit Damage/2 VIT mine have would pull them ahead of Phorcys.

That's obviously a slanting factor when discussing mob evasion

[(Your ACC - Mob Evas - fLV)/2] + 75 = 95
[(Your ACC - Mob Evas - fLV)/2] = 20
[Your ACC - Mob Evas - fLV] = 40
Your ACC = 40 + Mob EVAs + fLV

With Mithra, the set you posted, and the buffs listed, you have:
DEX = 96 (base) + 12 (merit) + 25 (gear)
DEX = 133

Pure ACC = 416 (Skill) + 59 (Gear) + 10 (Hasso) + 25 (Aggressor) + 65 (Madrigal; Underestimation if they have +4 Song Relic)
Pure ACC = 575

Total ACC = 575 + FLOOR(133*0.75,1)
Total ACC = 575 + 99
Total ACC = 674

With this info and Feint (This isn't a Linkin Park song)
674 = 40 + ((Mob EVAs - 10x)/2) + fLV where 'x' = number of Feint merits when using Relic+2
634 = ((Mob EVAs - 10x)/2) + fLV

fLV = (dLV*4)
fLV = (21*4) = 84 (Assumes LV120 mob)

550 = ((Mob EVAs - 10x)/2)
1100 = (Mob EVAs - 10x)

So in order for you to hit barely hit 95% hit rate with those buffs, the mob would need ~1100 evasion. That would be absurd. On the other hand, if we removed Feint:

550 = Mob EVAs

Even that is pretty high. If we remove Madrigal (The main reason people complain about accuracy), you require the mob's EVAs to dip unrealistically.

In short, complaints about accuracy are accurately calling attention to an issue; you only managed to override this issue via an obscene number of buffs.

Here's the correct order > Swap in grip > get TP > Ukkos for Aftermath > get 150+ TP > Sekkanokki > MS > Spam Upheaval.

Phorcys mitts arent really that much better than Heca+1 for MS Upheaval. They're basically even, But Phorcys pulls ahead if you gain 1 WSC or fSTR over the absolute lowest they can possibly give, or if you gain anything from the attack. The 2 VIT on your 4 Crit damage Heca+1 will make them better.


Which is the correct course of action and what you're suppose to do. Or you can be a gimp and miss a lot, up to you!
(*'-')

I'm not understanding your criticism against people complaining about accuracy then. If relying on feint, madrigal, hasso accuracy, and 77 accuracy in gear is what you're supposed to do, then accuracy concerns are a valid concern (The concern that you criticize). Otherwise, you wouldn't rely on accuracy from those buffs (And wouldn't need to cast Madrigal or rely on Feint's evasion down effect).

That said, a parse without Feint would better demonstrate the evasiveness of these mobs. The calculations earlier show that you need a 550 evasion or less mob to retain 95% accuracy without feint. Although I previous stated that to be high evasion, I was not counting for agility. Consequently, previous accounts of mob stats with 530 EVA and 120 AGI (Total of 590 EVA) would not apply to this chamber (Could apply to other chambers).

Theyre not valid concerns because I view the buffs I had as normal, and therefor everyone should have them and everyones accuracy should be fine.

Somehow you're managing to be totally illogical in this bizarre rant that you've chosen to undertake. The fact that standard buffs have changed due to an increased need of accuracy proves undeniably that concerns about accuracy are valid since this application is essentially the definition of validity. Any aspect of the game that we're somehow accounting for is a valid thing to be concerned about, which is what I think Yugl was trying to say.

I don't see folks spazzing out like retards as you implied above about needing more accuracy. They are just concerned and want to get the most out of their jobs, validly so.

So basically...

One side thinks that accuracy is a problem, and therefore wants various buffs.

The other side thinks that accuracy is not a problem, because of various buffs.

What exactly is the problem, here? It seems like no one is arguing against "do X things to succeed." So, let's just do X things!

Right?

Edit: Cleaned up my puke.