Upheaval Thoughts
Upheaval thoughts
Any ideas on what atma's to use?
Razed ruins, apoc and sanguine scythe with raging rush if you dont have ukkos
Kind of off-topic but what's the best Bravura-based TP set including Shadow breastplate?
Though feasible for me, a 5-hit isn't for the person I'm looking into it for. He has no neo-nyzul group, and probably won't attempt to make one unless I strongly urge him toward it, just because of the difficulty, which would take awhile to get off the ground, and awhile longer to be successful. So for the short-term, let's say a 6-hit including Shadow, and I'll push him toward Neo.
Bravura|Pole Grip|Ravager's Orb
Zelus|Houyi's|Brutal|Ravager's Earring
Shadow (2% TA, 5acc)|Ravager's Mufflers +2|Tyrant|Raja
Atheling|Phasmida|Ravager's +2 legs| Ravager's +2 feet
That's his current TP set. It's 1% from a perfect 6-hit.
Bravura|Pole Grip|Ravager's Orb
Zelus|Houyi's|Brutal|Ravager's Earring
Shadow (2% TA, 5acc)|Ravager's Mufflers +2|Tyrant|Raja
Atheling|Phasmida|Ravager's +2 legs| Ravager's +2 feet
That's his current TP set. It's 1% from a perfect 6-hit.
This was the only set anyone ever came up that didn't involve phorcys, or STP food, but you can't use AF3+2 hands.
You could always use what you posted with rancor collar and carbonara though, or arrabattia or whatever, but its sorta ridiculously priced.
Can just use the set Tikal posted when Restraint is up, and the Brego set when it's down?
I want to change my answer to rose strap instead of carbonara, or use upheaval not metatron instead of carbonara, either of those would also work.
I'm working on a set for Upheaval and this is what I have. Moonshade is Attack/TP Bonus. I also have Ravager's Earring if that'd be better. I realize the Dies Irae needs to go, and I plan to do a Magian one. I wondered if the VIT+11 Telamon would be any good.
Kaerin said: »
http://www.heckdesigns.com/demos/ffxi-calculators/stp.php
I used that to calculate the sTP in the sets but in the TP set it was (35sTP, hoping I counted right? with sTPII trait) 19.7/hit. *4 = 78.8, + Upheaval, which has 11sTP, so thats 16.6 + 2 TP from the other 2 1TP hits that'd land. which is.. 97.4? Am I doing any math wrong? lol._. I barely know how to do store TP maths cause I just use the calculator, but I'm thinking that's right? I probably just did something wrong but I wanted to make sure
Your math is right, except Upheaval is 4 hit, so 3 TP after the initial hit. Still, it's not a 5-hit without some regain. If you WS'd with Rajas ring, it'd be like 1% shy, if all hits connected. Houyi's Gorget in TP would fix it, but ugh.
Throw in a perfect e.body augment and a white tathlum you've got it. But good luck with that.
*Edited*
*Edited*
It's 19.8 TP a hit, houyi's would put you at exactly 100 TP per cycle if 4 hits land, WAR can't use hagneia, and that armada is assuming 6 store TP already.
Counted 6 STP off Armadaberk. It's Phos belt, not goading.
Didn't like this w/s one bit TBH. Made a build for it and the outcome was horrible.
Bismarck.Dominate said: »
Didn't like this w/s one bit TBH. Made a build for it and the outcome was horrible.
Plus as a bravura owner it should beat metaton iirc?
It's like some (hesitant to say most) relics, excluding gs for sure, where the merit ws may be underwhelming but it's still going to be your best option and your hidden effect damage should put you over the top in the long run. However, as an Ukon owner using Upheaval under Mighty Strikes with a MS specific set is pretty badass.
MS Upheaval dusts Ukko's, it'll curb-stomp Metatron.
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Your math is right, except Upheaval is 4 hit, so 3 TP after the initial hit. Still, it's not a 5-hit without some regain. If you WS'd with Rajas ring, it'd be like 1% shy, if all hits connected. Houyi's Gorget in TP would fix it, but ugh.
You guys have sets that put me to shame, but this is what I built. I would say "finally built," but nothing's ever "Final" in Final Fantasy XI is it? I don't want to say Bravura or Ukon aren't an option, but they're pretty unlikely at this point.
Moonshade is Attack/TP Bonus. Telamon is VIT/PDT.
Moonshade is Attack/TP Bonus. Telamon is VIT/PDT.
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So assuming I only use upheaval during mighty strikes zergs would this be the ideal gear?
max crit dmg augments on all relevant pieces, and the heca mitts +1 have 3 vit. I guess I could keep trying for vit on haidates as well.
max crit dmg augments on all relevant pieces, and the heca mitts +1 have 3 vit. I guess I could keep trying for vit on haidates as well.
Only thing I'd mention is that if you have 300% TP, swap out the earring. I never have 300% TP for Upheaval though when I MS, so it's a niche situation.
Oh and Huginn Gamb are better than AF3+2, despite their ridiculous nature to acquire. Only mention this because of "ideal."
Oh and Huginn Gamb are better than AF3+2, despite their ridiculous nature to acquire. Only mention this because of "ideal."
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Kaerin said: »
No one is arguing Resolution is a worse WS than Upheaval, but the inferior gear set and hit build required to use Ragnarok, as well as Ukons lvl 3 aftermath should make Ukon do more overall damage if you spam Upheaval with MS and AM3 up.
Looked into it some more. 7hit 99 Ragna beats 99 Ukon, even with AM3, in almost every way, MS and without, when you're getting embrava or double marches and capped attack.
Using these sets for Ragna TP/WS, Assuming Restraint, Berserk, Aggressor, Boost-STR:
(Ravager's +2 when mighty strikes is up/Warrior's legs +2 when attack capped)
Basically, any type of fodder mob or zerg situation where you're getting embrava and/or attack buffs and the mob is dying very quickly(ADL, neo nyzul, lower tier VW), Ranga is usually the better weapon. Anything much higher level where your fSTR/attack won't be easily capped and where Ukko's crit will be more advantageous(Rex/Provenance Watcher/Legion), Ukon has the advantage.
Edit:I kind of ignored Blood Rage, which will push Ukon(using ukko's) ahead in some shorter fights depending on how you want to scale it, but the average crit/minute is 4%, which isn't enough to beat ragna over a longer period of time.
I finished my Ukon99 last week and I'm trying to do a cost/benefit analysis on whether or not I should make a Ragnarok now to expand my WAR's capabilities. If Blood Rage actually tips the balance towards Ukon, your post implies that these two weapons are in fact extremely close and that a Ukon99 owner wouldn't gain much by building a Ragnarok.
General answers are cool, but I'm most interested in Legion. I noticed in a video posted that you use your Rag in Legion but it doesn't seem intuitive to me that it would be significantly better than Ukon99 with 300% aftermath, zerg buffs, MS and Upheaval spam.
Any thoughts? I'm also interested in how you arrive at your numbers-- ie, either via the Motenten spreadsheet, your own spreadsheet, manual calculations or what. Thanks.
Sadly, the only place I use Ukon now is in VW. Under zerg buffs(chaos roll/SV minuet x3/embrava), ukko's just can't touch reso's numbers. AM3 can help, but it's not as easy to maintain AM3 as it is in VW, especially in legion. All of my experience/parses/eyeballing show that Ragna is superior in Legion for WAR.
The way I see it, there's really only 2 correct setups for the Legion DD party. One involves 1 WAR and lots of DRKs, the other is 1 DRK and lots of WARs. With 3+ WARs, you can full time blood rage easily, and Ukon will win. If you're using lots of DRKs and 1 WAR, then it probably depends on ACC. If ACC is capped it could go either way depending on other buffs, but for stupid mobs like the Ixion, Ragnarok should win simply because of the 40 ACC.
Kaerin said: »
but for stupid mobs like the Ixion, Ragnarok should win simply because of the 40 ACC.
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Sadly, the only place I use Ukon now is in VW. Under zerg buffs(chaos roll/SV minuet x3/embrava), ukko's just can't touch reso's numbers. AM3 can help, but it's not as easy to maintain AM3 as it is in VW, especially in legion. All of my experience/parses/eyeballing show that Ragna is superior in Legion for WAR.
Do you have any parses/anecdotes/etc that would shed some light on just how much Rag/Reso is winning by? I've seen the same sort of language used on the forums when a difference is 1% as when a difference is 15%, so forgive me for pressing on this point. :)
Thanks again.
During MS it depends a lot on your attack and if it is capped using Resolution.
Resolution should look something like this with 3.0 pdif:
((((300*.94)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*3)*1.22)
5782
With 2.76 pDIF (resolution at 100 tp is -8% attack, 2.76 pDIF shows 3.0 pDIF -8%, keep in mind though, that due to level correction, -8% attack can end up being more than -8% pDIF)
((((300*.94)*1.07)*2.76)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*2.76)*1.22)
5319
Upheaval will look something like this with 3.0 pDIF.
((((300*1.2)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*3.6)*3)*1.22)
5362
Assuming attack isn't capped, Upheaval will do just as much as Resolution, 99 Ukon vs 99 Ragnarok, if attack is actually capped during Resolution, it will win for WS damage, but Ukon is still a 6 hit while Rag is a 7 hit, so you'll end up doing more Upheavals than Resolutions. The only time Resolution actually wins for MS zerging is if attack is capped and you literally have every regain and save tp type buff you can get with capped haste, so it removes the fact that you'll get more Upheavals than Resolutions.
Resolution should look something like this with 3.0 pdif:
((((300*.94)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*3)*1.22)
5782
With 2.76 pDIF (resolution at 100 tp is -8% attack, 2.76 pDIF shows 3.0 pDIF -8%, keep in mind though, that due to level correction, -8% attack can end up being more than -8% pDIF)
((((300*.94)*1.07)*2.76)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*2.76)*1.22)
5319
Upheaval will look something like this with 3.0 pDIF.
((((300*1.2)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*3.6)*3)*1.22)
5362
Assuming attack isn't capped, Upheaval will do just as much as Resolution, 99 Ukon vs 99 Ragnarok, if attack is actually capped during Resolution, it will win for WS damage, but Ukon is still a 6 hit while Rag is a 7 hit, so you'll end up doing more Upheavals than Resolutions. The only time Resolution actually wins for MS zerging is if attack is capped and you literally have every regain and save tp type buff you can get with capped haste, so it removes the fact that you'll get more Upheavals than Resolutions.
Kaerin said: »
The way I see it, there's really only 2 correct setups for the Legion DD party. One involves 1 WAR and lots of DRKs, the other is 1 DRK and lots of WARs. With 3+ WARs, you can full time blood rage easily, and Ukon will win. If you're using lots of DRKs and 1 WAR, then it probably depends on ACC. If ACC is capped it could go either way depending on other buffs, but for stupid mobs like the Ixion, Ragnarok should win simply because of the 40 ACC.
You're forgetting Warcry with Savagery and the augment on WAR +2 head.
Phoenix.Suji said: »
It's worth noting that Rag only gains 22acc, not 40, due to the difference in skill ratings. Interesting point about the party setups.
In Mul, the 20 Acc ends up being huge, especially for WS.
Phoenix.Suji said: »
I don't see you commenting on Upheaval here, though. Are you implying that, since one can only MS for 45 seconds, Rag will come out ahead over the course of a run even if Ukon/Aftermath/Upheaval may be winning during MS?
Do you have any parses/anecdotes/etc that would shed some light on just how much Rag/Reso is winning by? I've seen the same sort of language used on the forums when a difference is 1% as when a difference is 15%, so forgive me for pressing on this point. :)
Thanks again.
Do you have any parses/anecdotes/etc that would shed some light on just how much Rag/Reso is winning by? I've seen the same sort of language used on the forums when a difference is 1% as when a difference is 15%, so forgive me for pressing on this point. :)
Thanks again.
MS Reso is already better than MS Upheaval.
We use 2 WARs for Mul. The other WAR has nearly identical gear as me(99 ukon) and an aggressive play style. I don't think I've ever lost to him; the difference is usually 2-5% in overall damage on parses. I usually beat the DRKs(both 99 Ragna), but can still lose if I'm not on the ball.
On the 2-5% note, that's usually over 1 million damage dealt in a typical Mul chamber between all DD, so it's about 30-40K damage behind.
Kaerin said: »
During MS it depends a lot on your attack and if it is capped using Resolution.
Resolution should look something like this with 3.0 pdif:
((((300*.94)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*3)*1.22)
5782
With 2.76 pDIF (resolution at 100 tp is -8% attack, 2.76 pDIF shows 3.0 pDIF -8%, keep in mind though, that due to level correction, -8% attack can end up being more than -8% pDIF)
((((300*.94)*1.07)*2.76)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*2.76)*1.22)
5319
Upheaval will look something like this with 3.0 pDIF.
((((300*1.2)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*3.6)*3)*1.22)
5362
Assuming attack isn't capped, Upheaval will do just as much as Resolution, 99 Ukon vs 99 Ragnarok, if attack is actually capped during Resolution, it will win for WS damage, but Ukon is still a 6 hit while Rag is a 7 hit, so you'll end up doing more Upheavals than Resolutions. The only time Resolution actually wins for MS zerging is if attack is capped and you literally have every regain and save tp type buff you can get with capped haste, so it removes the fact that you'll get more Upheavals than Resolutions.
Resolution should look something like this with 3.0 pdif:
((((300*.94)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*3)*1.22)
5782
With 2.76 pDIF (resolution at 100 tp is -8% attack, 2.76 pDIF shows 3.0 pDIF -8%, keep in mind though, that due to level correction, -8% attack can end up being more than -8% pDIF)
((((300*.94)*1.07)*2.76)*1.22)+(((300*4.26)*2.76)*1.22)
5319
Upheaval will look something like this with 3.0 pDIF.
((((300*1.2)*1.07)*3)*1.22)+(((300*3.6)*3)*1.22)
5362
Assuming attack isn't capped, Upheaval will do just as much as Resolution, 99 Ukon vs 99 Ragnarok, if attack is actually capped during Resolution, it will win for WS damage, but Ukon is still a 6 hit while Rag is a 7 hit, so you'll end up doing more Upheavals than Resolutions. The only time Resolution actually wins for MS zerging is if attack is capped and you literally have every regain and save tp type buff you can get with capped haste, so it removes the fact that you'll get more Upheavals than Resolutions.
Attack is almost always capped when getting the buffs i specifically mentioned, and you're ignoring acc, which is a big factor.
To give you an idea, our Ukon WAR parsed 75% acc on Paramount Rex with agg/SV mad/acc set.
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