PLD Relic/mythic/emp Discussion
PLD relic/mythic/emp discussion
I was hoping there was a boost (hp% or proc rate) to added effect somewhere down line :(
That'd be welcomed, but Excalibur honestly doesn't need any help. Assuming the devs. don't wise up and turn Atonement into a damage type that isn't reduced by virtually everything, I can't see either Burtgang or Almace topping it at 99.
Burtgang(and all mythics, really) have really gotten a lot of love with these new battle systems though.
Burtgang(and all mythics, really) have really gotten a lot of love with these new battle systems though.
What makes 99 so different from right now? The only time excal will beat Almace is from anmesia or you're not getting enough procs to keep the temps coming. It's a close race(maybe) but at least your getting the enmity all of Almace's damage.
There's too small of a difference as is, and they're planning an overhaul on Lv.99 relic weapons. Even if that weren't the case, something, anything would make 99 Excalibur better than 90 Almace irrevocably.
sorry if this was posted before, but how does KoR compare to CDC for outside now?
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
I was hoping there was a boost (hp% or proc rate) to added effect somewhere down line :(
I would be willing to compromise with SE on a hp%=90, proc%=90.
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
That'd be welcomed, but Excalibur honestly doesn't need any help.
How do you figure? Excaliburs additional damage is rivaled by enlight.
An almace swinging roughly 13-14 swings before ws with enlight is enough to over take excaliburs highest additional hit damage. If you include ochain non /nin, then the attack rounds drop a bit as im sure youll get a good decent amount of tp with blocks, but that just makes almace+enlight = excal add. damage.
Then you have accuracy from enlight vs a static +35attack. I can see where you might be capped on accuracy that might make enlight less valuable but on pld that could mean the difference between pizza and better meat choice.
Excaliburs real pro atm is the 2.5x damage not needing to rely on a ws to trigger it. SE needs to increase the proc rate and/or the damage with the additional damage for excal to pull ahead.
Except, with the Lv.95 trials for Empyreans in place, Excal has no business being better than Almace.
You can't really balance a Lv.95/99 weapon (Excal) vs. a Lv.90 weapon (Almace) if the following trials for Almace are as/more time consuming than building a relic.
You can't really balance a Lv.95/99 weapon (Excal) vs. a Lv.90 weapon (Almace) if the following trials for Almace are as/more time consuming than building a relic.
Odin.Hitoseijuro said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
That'd be welcomed, but Excalibur honestly doesn't need any help.
How do you figure? Excaliburs additional damage is rivaled by enlight.
An almace swinging roughly 13-14 swings before ws with enlight is enough to over take excaliburs highest additional hit damage. If you include ochain non /nin, then the attack rounds drop a bit as im sure youll get a good decent amount of tp with blocks, but that just makes almace+enlight = excal add. damage.
Then you have accuracy from enlight vs a static +35attack. I can see where you might be capped on accuracy that might make enlight less valuable but on pld that could mean the difference between pizza and better meat choice.
Excaliburs real pro atm is the 2.5x damage not needing to rely on a ws to trigger it. SE needs to increase the proc rate and/or the damage with the additional damage for excal to pull ahead.
Always forget about the substantial boost Enlight offers. Good point.
As much as I realize that practicality is rarely a deciding factor in discussions like these, though, I can't suggest anyone start an Almace with a straight face right now. Excalibur isn't that far behind in any situation, and even has the potential to pull ahead. Couple that with the relative difficulty in creating the two weapons, and a brand new empyrean sword is just a bad decision at this point. Well, assuming you decide between the two. I suppose there's no harm in creating both.
[+]
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Couple that with the relative difficulty in creating the two weapons, and a brand new empyrean sword is just a bad decision at this point. Well, assuming you decide between the two. I suppose there's no harm in creating both.
Atm Im just deciding between convinience as in excal/aegis. If I go with aegis I dont have to spend that much time working on ochain(can pick it up in the future if I wish) thus allowing me to work on almace.
If I go with excalibur then ill have to work on ochain. Maybe our group just had horrible luck getting the T2s to change color(along with competition in all 3 zones) but it was enough for me not to want to repeat that process a 4th or 5th time(where-ever my turn lands). I have been thinking about using whatever gil I aim to finish my last stage, to use that to buying colorless and resumming excalibur fund after(its just finding the time to do all that, if time wasnt an issue id do dyna every day and finish it in 2weeks).
Having both relics is not an option for me, 1) I dont have enough time to dedicate to a 2nd and mainly 2) I wouldnt dedicate 2 relics to my pld when 1 emp + 1 relic can do the job just the same, a 2nd would be for apoc or something.
Enlight gets resisted to hell on Everything.. At Best it's a good comparison for the acc boost only.
Phoenix.Neosutra said: »
Enlight gets resisted to hell on Everything.. At Best it's a good comparison for the acc boost only.
Is that detrimental to the attack bonus?
Oh, christ. How upsetting.
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Oh, christ. How upsetting.
And ya I was a bit let down by it not being acc+att bonus, its enough of a bonus to help pld and not break it and being job specific to pld.
Accuracy bonus is worth considering though. That's 2 Kaggens. Looks like you get one full enlight before it goes to ***.
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
Accuracy bonus is worth considering though.
What were you fighting?
I doubt the accuracy bonus is mirrored with the magic resist.
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
I doubt the accuracy bonus is mirrored with the magic resist.
Dodu said:
Kaggen
Odin.Hitoseijuro said: »
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
I doubt the accuracy bonus is mirrored with the magic resist.
Dodu said:
Kaggen
Except you did not account for the higher delay of excal or the accuracy bonus from enlight. Also Almace Dex and ODD.
WS stuff if you guys want to kick it around. This is also a fight that should heavily favor Excalibur.
85 Almace Btw.
85 Almace Btw.
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
Odin.Hitoseijuro said: »
Phoenix.Gustavve said: »
I doubt the accuracy bonus is mirrored with the magic resist.
Dodu said:
Kaggen
I really hope it doesnt mirror damage when regarding resists. What did you eat for the fight? I think if you parsed again w/o enlight we would be able to see if it really is a clear reflection on damage with resists and not just from the first hit base down(ie 59 and then 58 downward)
Thanks for the ws parse, sadly wish I could see what KoR would be putting up. Running numbers its only around 200 off average maybe, but thats with capped acc, Id assume KoR favours situations better without capped acc vs CDC which loses ground a bit(being multi-hit). Either way its only numbers on my part, I have no idea what type of defense/evasion it could have outside of guess(thus its only numbers in a situation that could/could not be happening).
Although the numbers I plugged for CDC are matching those highs so the defense is probably close to what I imagine it to be(sadly acc was capped, thats 430 evasion too lv105-110 no acc food just RCB/war so the def could be even higher if you werent using any of those)
Too many variables to get into. Stat down, bio, temp items, gear during tp and so on. I was /war probably without food.
Hito you're drastically overestimating enlights acc bonus (which actually degrades like the additional effect does over the duration). You're not getting anywhere near 6000 extra damage lol. And as gustative said: you have to consider pDif and 100 other factors. People are really stretching info to get almace to come out better and it's bad math/data.
Almace comes close to Excalibur (winning in some situations) solely because of the frequency of !! procs resetting your meds and greatly upping your ws/melee ratio. Else Excalibur would easily beat it in DOT.
Almace comes close to Excalibur (winning in some situations) solely because of the frequency of !! procs resetting your meds and greatly upping your ws/melee ratio. Else Excalibur would easily beat it in DOT.
Phoenix.Neosutra said: »
Hito you're drastically overestimating enlights acc bonus (which actually degrades like the additional effect does over the duration). You're not getting anywhere near 6000 extra damage lol.
As far as the acc bonus itself, the degrade is only limited to the recasting. Youd want to recast enlight way before it hits its 0. The overall bonus outweighs the recasting. While you might slow yourself a swing or 2 per recast, youll probably add double that or more on hits being landed(provided the acc never goes to waste).
Starting at 59acc, I dont think its that difficult to avg 45-35acc with enlight(provided mind you resists from damage on enlight doesnt affect acc values, if not throw what I say out the window~).
im a fan of burtgang, im not saying it does the most damage but that isnt everything, the job of a pld is to hold hate, so even though on burtgang ur doin less damage, you might hold hate better, (serious math required). for arguments sake, lets say ur enmity is capped and ur burtgang is hittin for 850 WS's. well you're getting an extra 16% hate on that WS (along with everything else you're doin). it says right in the description that you loose less enmity when you get hit. and with PDT-16% that means you loose even less hate (because hate loss is determined by the % of hp you loose). So overall, you might be doin less damage, but imo, you are probably keeping hate better.
on another topic, occ attacks twice or thrice. (40% single, 40% DA, and 20% TA) that is an average of 80% more hits with AM3(and it lasts for 3 min now!), so you are doin 80% more damage, and get 80% more tp, (aka to get AM3, it would be like normally gettin around 160tp cause u get it so fast)
sorry for the long rant, but i feel that even if burtgang does less damage (i agree to that) that you will do a better job being a pld (not dieing, and holding hate)
on another topic, occ attacks twice or thrice. (40% single, 40% DA, and 20% TA) that is an average of 80% more hits with AM3(and it lasts for 3 min now!), so you are doin 80% more damage, and get 80% more tp, (aka to get AM3, it would be like normally gettin around 160tp cause u get it so fast)
sorry for the long rant, but i feel that even if burtgang does less damage (i agree to that) that you will do a better job being a pld (not dieing, and holding hate)
dedrummer000 said: »
on another topic, occ attacks twice or thrice. (40% single, 40% DA, and 20% TA) that is an average of 80% more hits with AM3(and it lasts for 3 min now!), so you are doin 80% more damage, and get 80% more tp, (aka to get AM3, it would be like normally gettin around 160tp cause u get it so fast)
dedrummer000 said: »
i feel that even if burtgang does less damage (i agree to that) that you will do a better job being a pld (not dieing, and holding
In short: "Even though I don't actually think Burtgang does more damage, I think it does"
read a lil slower, with AM3 you are doin +80% damage,(as opposed to just sitting there swinging with no AM) i didnt say that it overpowers Almace in the long run.
dedrummer000 said: »
for arguments sake, lets say ur enmity is capped and ur burtgang is hittin for 850 WS's.
850 dmg. Are we talking Atonement here? Cause Atonement hasn't dealt full DMG to any worthwhile NMs since before voidwalker NMs.
It's typically 1/2 or 1/4 resisted depending on the NM. So 435 or 212 per ws(assuming Burtgang 90~ is used. Atonment DMG+ 15%).
Now, I do still think Burtgang's a good sword('sides it looks sweet). For voidwatch, one of the biggest factors would be TP wings. These allow Burtgang to continuously maintain AM3, without the huge delay from building 300% tp.
Pop a wing, Atonement for AM3, then switch to vorpal spam, till it wears.
I'm not about to delve into a DD comparison with Almace or Excal, though, the math is completely beyond me.
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