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DNC Response from the Devs
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 17:09:12
I've got beaten dammit! ;_;
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 17:09:20
Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 17:10:14
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :( <3
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2011-08-15 17:12:21
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
welll...the thread is based on SE's responses to DNC questions, all of which are basically answered with NO...so the question is..when was it not angry time?
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Dancingharuhi 2011-08-15 17:15:12
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:16:10
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
[+]
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Dancingharuhi 2011-08-15 17:18:35
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
Are we reading the same thread?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:19:32
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
Are we reading the same thread?
I'd imagine so, there's only one DNC dev thread.
[+]
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:19:42
Oh
Makes sense I guess, I've seen loads of people saying it specifically to her so I thought there was some significance.
She's only been posting on here for a few days and I'm already angry.
On topic:
I have a new character with DNC, what are the optimal daggers?
Do you want to do trials or non trial daggers?
Cerberus.Mystina
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 201
By Cerberus.Mystina 2011-08-15 17:20:40
Just tell SE that DNC is "SAM" in disguse, i'm sure they will fix the timers, in other words only some jobs can be Oped and some can't, we have to learn to live with this. WAR is not Oped at all btw. just thought i'd throw that out there.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:23:06
Oh
Makes sense I guess, I've seen loads of people saying it specifically to her so I thought there was some significance.
She's only been posting on here for a few days and I'm already angry.
On topic:
I have a new character with DNC, what are the optimal daggers?
Do you want to do trials or non trial daggers?
Non trials preferably, I've got a Kila +2 on flion and I'm too lazy to do it again
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:24:08
For non trial, id imanage something like Angr Harpe + Twilight dagger. Harpe has high damage but pretty bad delay. There might be a newer dagger im missing but ill look around.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Dancingharuhi 2011-08-15 17:25:20
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
Are we reading the same thread?
I'd imagine so, there's only one DNC dev thread.
OMG GUYZ SOMEONE DIDN'T INSULT HER! WHITE KNIGHT! WHITE KNIGHT!
Welcome to Ad Hominem 101. Winning arguments by insulting the other party.
I'd expect this from Alla, but even they've calmed down in recent years.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:25:29
Thanks, gives me an idea at least
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 17:26:22
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here. Whiteknight ect
If you post something retard, expect to get treated as one.
Now plz, post DNC related stuff or GTFO, your garbaging this thread even more.
(I'm not in a good mood today)
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:27:10
Hey! At least I posted something DNC related :P
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:27:27
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
Are we reading the same thread?
I'd imagine so, there's only one DNC dev thread.
OMG GUYZ SOMEONE DIDN'T INSULT HER! WHITE KNIGHT! WHITE KNIGHT!
Welcome to Ad Hominem 101. Winning arguments by insulting the other party.
I'd expect this from Alla, but even they've calmed down in recent years.
Ad hominem? I think you need to research the meaning.
All of your 4 posts on this forum have been defending a chick on the same server as you, after she's instigated and insulted people many times. She is female, and judging by your name I'd guess you're a weeaboo male, making my assumption that you are a white knight pretty much a sure thing.
[+]
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:31:03
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Oh, and I was wrong, Should try for Phurba + Twlight for DNC. Phurba Comes from Apadmek so should be easy enough to get.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:32:35
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Oh, and I was wrong, Should try for Phurba + Twlight for DNC. Phurba Comes from Apadmek so should be easy enough to get.
Ah thanks, I'll get on that.
And I imagined so, he seems like the type. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the same person on a different account tbh.
[+]
Cerberus.Mystina
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 201
By Cerberus.Mystina 2011-08-15 17:36:35
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Don't forget the true love chocolate in the bazzar for 99999999 which is always the mark of a true online e-love.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:37:54
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Don't forget the true love chocolate in the bazzar for 99999999 which is always the mark of a true online e-love.
I bought one of those and ate it infront of someone, they put it in the bazaar for 99,999 by accident
Nom nom nom
I had many QQs
[+]
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:38:05
Hey now! I have a ring in my bazaar for that much D: Then again, shes actually sitting right behind me, lol.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 17:39:59
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Don't forget the true love chocolate in the bazzar for 99999999 which is always the mark of a true online e-love.
I bought one of those and ate it infront of someone, they put it in the bazaar for 99,999 by accident
Nom nom nom
I had many QQs
You're so mean >:(
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-15 17:40:45
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Don't forget the true love chocolate in the bazzar for 99999999 which is always the mark of a true online e-love.
I bought one of those and ate it infront of someone, they put it in the bazaar for 99,999 by accident
Nom nom nom
I had many QQs
You're so mean >:(
The tears were the tastiest sauce
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2011-08-15 17:42:48
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Why did this thread explode into an angry time :(
Since the random insults about 3 pages back. Seems the norm here.
Yeah, That Kiaru chick should really stop insulting people randomly.
Are we reading the same thread?
I'd imagine so, there's only one DNC dev thread.
OMG GUYZ SOMEONE DIDN'T INSULT HER! WHITE KNIGHT! WHITE KNIGHT!
Welcome to Ad Hominem 101. Winning arguments by insulting the other party.
I'd expect this from Alla, but even they've calmed down in recent years.
Who is this guy?
go away
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 17:42:52
Its most likely just her newest e-b/f to get items for her, buy her things etc.
Don't forget the true love chocolate in the bazzar for 99999999 which is always the mark of a true online e-love.
I bought one of those and ate it infront of someone, they put it in the bazaar for 99,999 by accident
Nom nom nom
I had many QQs
You're so mean >:(
The tears were the tastiest sauce
This string of posts made me laugh so hard I nearly choked to deaath.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Dancingharuhi 2011-08-15 17:43:09
DNC is currently amazing for low-manning things outside Abyssea with the exception of VWNMs.
Inside Abyssea it's a poor tank with nothing to raise it above the rest of the crowd for pretty much anything considering NIN/DNC has all of the useful Waltzes and Haste Samba.
They'd need to lower the recast on Waltzes IV and V before it could even be considered in the running again considering a decently geared WHM can heal as much a Waltz V in less than 2s and then do it again 6-7 seconds later. "But a WHM can't DD!" you say? Why not just have a proper DD like a WAR or a MNK come along to tank? MP is unlimited in Abyssea and you'd also add almost a full set of Red procs or Blue procs during blunt time.
SE's announcement that they're doing nothing to the job without horribly gimping it in some other way basically drives a nail into the coffin. There are better DD jobs you can put in place of a DNC, there are better healers you can put in place of a DNC and there are better tanks you can put in place of a DNC. This is why it's solo only, and solo doesn't matter in Abyssea due to the proc system.
<- 90 DNC
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 17:48:01
Thing is, with the update to Climatic Flourish and having Rudra's storm and being able to easilly make darkness, DNC isnt as bad of a DD as people make it out to be. On top of that, they can actually take care of themselves.
Any time I see a NIN/DNC in abyssea, makes me want to shoot my self. If I had a choice between NIN/DNC or actually just bringing a DNC, id much rather bring the DNC.
Only thing id really like to see, is move Healing Waltz and Divine Waltz into its own thing.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 17:48:23
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 17:52:03
From the english text, I see there's something I missed, and it makes it sound like they might be doing the regain thing the way I implemented it in my suggestion thread :O
Here's your link
Here's the text
Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy
Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.
Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.
Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer.
We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.
Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz)
Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.
Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party.
It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.
Increase the effect of Animated Flourish.
We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.
Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish.
We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.
Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish.
Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.
Make it so you can stack steps over level 5.
This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.
Lengthen the effect duration for steps.
We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.
Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5.
It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.
Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect.
Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.
Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig.
Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.
Irrelevant stuff:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11584-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BB%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%EF%BC%9A%E8%B8%8A%E3%82%8A%E5%AD%90/page6
It's up on the Japanese forums. The whole thing looks pretty grim, but I won't make specific comments until I'm done translating it for myself. My Japanese is rusty though, so I apologize ^_^ English one should be up later today (usually around 7est)
Questions Addressed:
1.) Want to add a new mode/sphere effect dance?
2.) I don't want to share waltz recast timers.
They pull out both system-related woes and balance related woes. Simply splitting recast timers would make waltzes too powerful compared to other forms of recovery magic (apparently - this is what I've been saying is on their minds all along lol). Something about splitting might require substantial increases in TP cost if they did do it?
3.) I want waltz recast reduced.
Basically they pull that waltz can't be interrupted, so they don't want to decrease recast timers. They want us to use 1-3 for regular waltzes and IV + V "situationally." The recast on healing is similarly "deliberately high." -_-
4.) I would like to use healing waltz outside of PT.
5.) I would like to increase the effectiveness of Animated Flourish.
6.) I would like to increase the hit rate of Desperate Flourish.
7.) I would like wild flourish to do higher tier skillchains.
They draw a comparison to Konzen-Ittai. They set the effect of Wild lower than Konzen-Ittai because Konzen-Ittai has a significantly longer recast, which makes sense, really.
8.) We want more than 5 stages of step.
This is really disappointing. They already consider the effect of level 5 daze to be very high, so they probably won't increase the potency like I listed in my suggestion thread :(
9.) I want to increase step duration.
10.) I want to earn 2 finishing moves when step level 5 is present.
11.) I want chocobo jig to affect the party.
12.) I want to be able to overwrite spectral jig.
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