Thanks, but my tests so far have actually been with 90THF/PLD, because my highest level PLD character is 29 <_<;. No level sync involved. My main character has level 11 Paladin, so I may take that to 15 and see how the numbers change.
Thanks for any additional testing. Shield Bash is kind of nice to test because it's so regular.
July Patch - PLD
July Patch - PLD
Fenrir.Demomo said:
Equipping aegis allows you to bypass -50% MDT, regardless of the shields level. You're thinking of how it works incorrectly. In other words if you put on -55% MDT in gear, you really only have -50% MDT. If you equip aegis, that 5% is returned + what is on the shield. Trust me, solo'd jailer of faith a bunch before Aegis buff and after Aegis buff with shield at 75 and 90. The nukes never changed damage in 75 shield mdt set vs 90 shield mdt set. All that happened was I stored my iron ram gear and can now mdt in full af3+2.
Speaking of which, has anyone done the math to see if Twilight Mail would be better than MDB body alternatives (due to int/mnd diff calcs in spell damage), assuming you cap MDT without the need of a body slot.
What gear are you planning on swapping out to make up for the DT% off creed cuirass? I mean defending ring would help with making up for the 22% mdt sure but it doesn't exist to me. I just rearranged my xml to put up askar feet.
No, I had to ghetto to 90% using MDB because I do not have v helm and was a few % off of 90. I actually over stacked mdb, as I believe the actual ratio was .8 mdt to 1 mdb? And lets see... If faith hits me for 80 with stonega 3 and 75 shield.... and 80 with 90 shield.... that sugggests to me both can hit -90% or, 75 shield can hit -75% and be carried to -90% by mdb? I'm really not sure on that and am surprised so many disagree with this. Will PM you screenshots of it if you wish. I stored the MDB gear because it seems once you hit -90%, thats as far as its going to go including mdb. I swapped on 4/5 iron ram on tiamat in the air 2 pops ago to check. 15 damage in -90%, 15 damage in -90% and a crap ton of mdb gear. So, am I playing a different game or do you guys not play with your aegis that much?
MDB and MDT are different. You're not "ghettoing there".
You either have 90% MDT or you don't.
If you're talking about "total amount the spell was reduced" then ok, but you're still missing the point.
And one SS of a spell that likely resisted isn't evidence.
Additionally: No, MDB is not "useless" once you're at 90% MDT. They are entirely separate terms.
Your logic paths for your tests are extremely poor.
edit:
Gustavve: It's harder without Dring, but 2 6% MDT rings, twilight torque, 3% waist, and askar feet = 22%, without having to use body. However, you give up the ability to use MDB in the waste (4MDB from creed), feet (3 MAB from iron ram).
I currently use Valhalla until hate is established, then swap to my high enmity MDT set which includes Creed body. I've just been trying to work out the math for using Twilight mail instead in some situations.
You either have 90% MDT or you don't.
If you're talking about "total amount the spell was reduced" then ok, but you're still missing the point.
And one SS of a spell that likely resisted isn't evidence.
Additionally: No, MDB is not "useless" once you're at 90% MDT. They are entirely separate terms.
Your logic paths for your tests are extremely poor.
edit:
Gustavve: It's harder without Dring, but 2 6% MDT rings, twilight torque, 3% waist, and askar feet = 22%, without having to use body. However, you give up the ability to use MDB in the waste (4MDB from creed), feet (3 MAB from iron ram).
I currently use Valhalla until hate is established, then swap to my high enmity MDT set which includes Creed body. I've just been trying to work out the math for using Twilight mail instead in some situations.
If MDB is not useless with -90% MDT, then why does it not effect damage taken beyond 90%? Why does Tiamat hit for 15 consistant when I have shell 4, 5, and ra5 with 5/5 cast on me? All are different levels of MDB, yet the damage.... never changes. I have ss's of the entire fights of faith, not just one random cast as it was right after the update and I was throughly amused with how little damage was being taken. So could it just be 75 shield can reach the same level of reduction through MDB and thats how I produced identical numbers with both shields?
Shell is MDT, not MDB. So if you're capped on MDT, then you're not going to notice a difference with shell4/5 (provided you have enough MDT in gear to remain capped on MDT with just shell4, need 28% MDT in gear to cap with just shell4. 26% with shell5 and no merits, and 22% with shell5 with merits).
Eyeballing 2 casts of a faith fight is not evidence.
It's been tested, it's wrong, I'm sorry. Unstore your MDB gear and do the following:
1. Ensure you're capping MDT.
2. Add in MDB everywhere else.
3. ???
4. Profit.
Eyeballing 2 casts of a faith fight is not evidence.
It's been tested, it's wrong, I'm sorry. Unstore your MDB gear and do the following:
1. Ensure you're capping MDT.
2. Add in MDB everywhere else.
3. ???
4. Profit.
Fenrir.Demomo said:
If MDB is not useless with -90% MDT, then why does it not effect damage taken beyond 90%? Why does Tiamat hit for 15 consistant when I have shell 4, 5, and ra5 with 5/5 cast on me? All are different levels of MDB, yet the damage.... never changes.
Go read what MDT and MDB are.
Wait plz explain it real quick to me then as I've been lurking this thread :P. If you're at the 90 MDT hard cap with Aegis, how is MDB going to help beyond that 90%? Can you really go so far as being magic immune with perfect gear?
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Damage_Taken#Magical_Damage_Taken
Magic Base Damage * (1 -%Magic Damage Taken -%Damage Taken)/(1 + MDB/100) = Magic Damage You Take
With 90% MDT and 20 MDB:
1000 * (1 - 90%)/(1 + 20/100) = 83 Damage Taken from a 1000 damage spell
Magic Base Damage * (1 -%Magic Damage Taken -%Damage Taken)/(1 + MDB/100) = Magic Damage You Take
With 90% MDT and 20 MDB:
1000 * (1 - 90%)/(1 + 20/100) = 83 Damage Taken from a 1000 damage spell
I'm sorry I thought shell effected MDB as well, however, the problem still stands, MDB does not push damage taken any further than 90%. I'll go stand infront of jorg and let it air attack me in a mdb set vs just -90% if it really comes to it, but I have never pushed tiamat under 15/melee in the air regardless of shell level or mdb gear equipped bar a shadow ring proc. So my original question still stands... could I have over equipped mdb on 75 shield to make it duplicate 90 shields reduction? Numbers don't lie.... so I am confused now.
So you're saying MDB CAN push you past the hard cap of 90%...that is good to know actually...
Fenrir.Demomo said:
I'm sorry I thought shell effected MDB as well, however, the problem still stands, MDB does not push damage taken any further than 90%. I'll go stand infront of jorg and let it air attack me in a mdb set vs just -90% if it really comes to it, but I have never pushed tiamat under 15/melee in the air regardless of shell level or mdb gear equipped bar a shadow ring proc. So my original question still stands... could I have over equipped mdb on 75 shield to make it duplicate 90 shields reduction? Numbers don't lie.... so I am confused now.
If there's a 90% hard cap on Magic Damage reduction from all forms, Aegis users would be the only ones to know.
A convincing test would be:
1) Put on your 90% MDT set without any MDB
2) Go to Ule Range and Flash a worm from a distance (ideally EM).
3) Wait until it nukes you with a few different things.
4) Put on your MDB gear without changing your MDT or INT total.
5) Wait for it to nuke you with some of the same things again.
I prefer the worms in Ule because they spawn EM pretty easily and that makes it easier to repeat the test later, should you need to. Really though, any level worm will work as long as its two nukes from the same worm.
I'll go check after besieged, I'll rework mdt gear so its -90% with avalon breastplate for a static 5%.... gimme about 35-45 mins.
Fenrir.Demomo said:
I'm sorry I thought shell effected MDB as well, however, the problem still stands, MDB does not push damage taken any further than 90%. I'll go stand infront of jorg and let it air attack me in a mdb set vs just -90% if it really comes to it, but I have never pushed tiamat under 15/melee in the air regardless of shell level or mdb gear equipped bar a shadow ring proc. So my original question still stands... could I have over equipped mdb on 75 shield to make it duplicate 90 shields reduction? Numbers don't lie.... so I am confused now.
No.
MDB and MDT are separate.
The problem you're seeing is that MDB is being marginalized due to having such high MDT.
For example:
If you have 50% MDT, here is the effects of MDB as you add it:
1000 base damage spell, with 50% MDT, and 0 MDB: Damage taken = 500.
1000 base damage spell, with 50% MDT, and 25 MDB: Damage taken = 400.
1000 base damage spell, with 50% MDT, and 50 MDB: 333 damage taken.
1000 base damage spell, with 50% MDT, and 100 MDB: 250 damage taken.
Now up that MDT to 90%:
1000 base damage spell, with 90% MDT, and 0 MDB: Damage taken = 100.
1000 base damage spell, with 90% MDT, and 25 MDB, Damage taken = 80 (a 20 point deduction).
1000 base damage spell, with 90% MDT, and 50 MDB, 66 damage taken.
1000 base damage spell, with 90% MDT, and 100 MDB, 50 damage taken.
It's not that MDB isn't helping you, it's that the effects are marginalized by such high -MDT values.
near magic immune plds sound like awesome tanks. seriously... thats awesome stuff
The problem comes with what I posted above. Even with a ***ton of MDB (way more than we have access too atm), you're not going to drive that last 10% damage down "too much".
Hence why I started looking at the dInt parts of the magic base damage, and other areas in improve on.
It is nice taking 150 damage from AV's Meteor though.
I do however doubt we're going to get much past 40% MDT on Aegis, so I'm curious to see what 95 Aegis will give us. - Unless they offer a hard cap on MDT total (87-90%), in which case more MDT on Aegis would just let us use less MDT gear and still cap.
edit: Byrth:
Do you know if anyone has done any work on Earthern Armor and/or Scherzo -DT equations? More specifically, how that -DT interacts with other -DT gear/etc?
Is it Scherzo DT% (when applicable damage amount) + DT% from gear/spells? Or is it Damage*ScherzoDT*GearDT?
Not that I think about it, it has to be the latter, else I'd be immune to severe magic damage with just aegis and scherzo.
Hence why I started looking at the dInt parts of the magic base damage, and other areas in improve on.
It is nice taking 150 damage from AV's Meteor though.
I do however doubt we're going to get much past 40% MDT on Aegis, so I'm curious to see what 95 Aegis will give us. - Unless they offer a hard cap on MDT total (87-90%), in which case more MDT on Aegis would just let us use less MDT gear and still cap.
edit: Byrth:
Do you know if anyone has done any work on Earthern Armor and/or Scherzo -DT equations? More specifically, how that -DT interacts with other -DT gear/etc?
Is it Scherzo DT% (when applicable damage amount) + DT% from gear/spells? Or is it Damage*ScherzoDT*GearDT?
Not that I think about it, it has to be the latter, else I'd be immune to severe magic damage with just aegis and scherzo.
From what I've skimmed through, not sure if anyone has properly noticed, but Divine Emblem is working on elemental weaponskills as well...
Running to Uleg now, going to use 2 regen atma + just mdt build then add in future fab and as much mdb as I can, but I think I'm gonna go try a few DE sanguine blades first.....
Sanguine in 91+96 str 79+80 mnd, dc worm:
648
Same stats, DE in af3+2 boots, same worm:
648
And it did not consume Divine Emblem.
You sure :S
648
Same stats, DE in af3+2 boots, same worm:
648
And it did not consume Divine Emblem.
You sure :S
Not too sure, I did it a few times last night, it too didn't use the emblem, but it only spiked when I had emblem effect up. Try using another element other than sanguine? RLB? Factual that it worked with aeolian though in some odd way.
Just finishing letting this worm rasp me 400000 times, will try rlb and think I have a dagger on me to try aeolian
Aeolian is working still, just did 8.5k all around, I'll try some sword stuff now that I'm logged in.
Wow, that's broken as crap xD.
Also yeah, Scherzo/Earth Armor are applied in the same step after the other -MDT and MDB, and they're applied last. So they trigger based off the final damage you would have taken (after all forms of -DT), not the potential damage it could have done.
Also yeah, Scherzo/Earth Armor are applied in the same step after the other -MDT and MDB, and they're applied last. So they trigger based off the final damage you would have taken (after all forms of -DT), not the potential damage it could have done.
Naked:
No gear no shell
Vis/MC/SS
Stone IV:
402
402
402
Quake:
633
633
633
Stonega III:
384
384
384
-22% MDT gear/5 merit shellra V
Naked except Ava BP, Dring, Twilight Torque, 1 Mermans Earring, 90 Aegis
Vis/MC/SS
Stone IV:
50
50
50
Quake:
79
79
79
Stonega III:
48
48
48
-22% MDT gear/+20MDB gear/5 merit shellra V
4/5 Iron ram, lamia mantle +1, af3 waist
Stone IV:
48
48
48
Quake:
76
76
76
Stonega III:
51
51
51
-22% MDT gear/+70MDB/5 merit shellra V
4/5 Iron ram, lamia mantle +1, af3 waist, future fab atma replacing ss
same worm held while I switched atmas
Stone IV:
31
31
31
Quake
49
49
49
Stonega III
29
29
29
Per request
-22% mdt gear not using body slot/twilight body/0 mdb/5 merit shellra 5
Twilight mail/aegis/mermans ear x2/twilight torque/dring/nierenblahblabhlah
INT @ 67+80
mc/vis/ss
Stone IV
47
47
47
Quake
75
75
75
Stonega III
57
57
57
Few strange things in there, mostly with stonega damage but I do apologize, it seems extremely high amounts of mdb become apparent, however, without future fab atma, the difference is minor enough to explain why small amounts of damage werent reduced any further.
No gear no shell
Vis/MC/SS
Stone IV:
402
402
402
Quake:
633
633
633
Stonega III:
384
384
384
-22% MDT gear/5 merit shellra V
Naked except Ava BP, Dring, Twilight Torque, 1 Mermans Earring, 90 Aegis
Vis/MC/SS
Stone IV:
50
50
50
Quake:
79
79
79
Stonega III:
48
48
48
-22% MDT gear/+20MDB gear/5 merit shellra V
4/5 Iron ram, lamia mantle +1, af3 waist
Stone IV:
48
48
48
Quake:
76
76
76
Stonega III:
51
51
51
-22% MDT gear/+70MDB/5 merit shellra V
4/5 Iron ram, lamia mantle +1, af3 waist, future fab atma replacing ss
same worm held while I switched atmas
Stone IV:
31
31
31
Quake
49
49
49
Stonega III
29
29
29
Per request
-22% mdt gear not using body slot/twilight body/0 mdb/5 merit shellra 5
Twilight mail/aegis/mermans ear x2/twilight torque/dring/nierenblahblabhlah
INT @ 67+80
mc/vis/ss
Stone IV
47
47
47
Quake
75
75
75
Stonega III
57
57
57
Few strange things in there, mostly with stonega damage but I do apologize, it seems extremely high amounts of mdb become apparent, however, without future fab atma, the difference is minor enough to explain why small amounts of damage werent reduced any further.
Also tested club, sword, and staff ele ws's, none seem to work with divine emblem, could it just be aeolian?
I'm assuming you had af3+2 boots for all Ws's? or during activation?
Previous Divine Emblem testing indicated AF3+2 shoes probably have nothing to do with the damage bonus. They likely increase the associated Enmity bonus, though I'm not sure it has been tested.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.