|
|
Abortion
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-07-06 13:23:28
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: Sounds like my High School was ahead of the curve then, we got a thorough sex-ed course with bananas, condoms and plenty of delicious pictures of STDs during Freshman year after school. The immaturity levels were intense but I walked away with a much more solid understanding of sex.
People were encouraged to ask questions and you'd be surprised the silliness you get from a group of 14 year olds but those silly questions most likely stopped people from finding out the hard way.
We were even quizzed on various infections and got a grade. Condoms and lubricant were always available in the nurses office along with someone to confide in if you caught an STD.
Not that the nurse could keep her mouth shut when she told us all about how many seniors had crabs lol.
Yeah, me, too. Sorta - for me, I had health classes from 7th - 12th grade that covered this area, and my 8th grade one was clearly the most in depth. But yeah, every side (that I can think of) was covered indiscriminately - including things like the rhythm method and other less popular/less effective solutions. But the advice and willingness to answer questions was always there.
It's always weird to me hearing that not everyone gets that experience. There's a 31 year old woman I work with having a baby who just saw her first birth (on a video in a pregnancy class) and his freaked out... staggering, and a little scary.
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 13:25:14
Bahamut.Josseppi said: Sylph.Anjali said: Seha, I do think every woman should have the option. And contrary to what a certain other crass poster said, I wasn't generalising anyone. I was talking about the perception in society now. If you accidentally get pregnant (not talking about rape victims here), the first thoughts should be "Am I ready to have a child?" and thinking that through. Not "Oh damn... should I get an abortion?". That should be the last thing we think about. There isn't really any clearer way to explain this other than what I've said. In society now, abortion is a quick thought. Not an easy decision, but a quick thought nevertheless. It isn't the last thing people consider. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the relation between that and the availability of abortion facilities, but you can see how others might. Personally I just think it's all to do with the many other things wrong with modern society, which is too long a discussion for this :) That being said, is it possible that we're reaching a point in society where we realize the morality of abortion is not as significant as the impact that each new life has on this earth. As we discover more and more about our planet and its resources, we theorize how many people the earth can sustain. Maybe our loss of morality is part of the evolutionary process. Our morals to conserve and protect new life/clumps of cells, has weekened simply because our need to continue the species has become less and less of a driving force in our lives. I have the same theory about homosexuality. People can debate all day long whether people are born or choose to be homosexuals. The reality is, its a bit of both plus environmental factors. The key question in all of this, is if people are born gay, why would the evolutionary process allow this? It makes sense if the process is somehow aware of the need to slow down population growth. Our bodies/minds are altering our genetics to give birth to humans who will be productive workers, happy with what they have in life, and a lot less likely to reproduce. Is it possible that our loss of morality over abortion is part of evolution? Are we subconciously making it ok for the overall better of the continuation of the species without our genetics in it?
...What the crap are you talking about lol?
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-07-06 13:25:40
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: Wow.
We didn't get any of that. But then again, I came from a very poor school...
... Which I'd imagine needed it the most, actually...
Our school wasn't rich at all but it did have high academic standards at the time for entry.
It was an outside organization working with our school to educate freshmen on sex though.
Sehachan said: Mpf! Noobs!
Being creative me and a classmate made a penis using paper and glue and used that to teach our friends everything they needed to know!
lol.
But its more fun when everyone watches that one girl squish the banana penis while putting the condom on!
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 13:29:07
Phoenix.Sehachan said: Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: with bananas Mpf! Noobs! Being creative me and a classmate made a penis using paper and glue and used that to teach our friends everything they needed to know!
How in the blue hell do you construct a *** from paper XD!?
Some SERIOUS origami skillz goin down there!
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-06 13:29:57
If you put glue on paper it becomes solid as rock!
It was also very big...
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 13:33:56
Phoenix.Sehachan said: If you put glue on paper it becomes solid as rock! It was also very big...
>_>
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2011-07-06 13:35:33
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: Eluveitie said: Fairy.Spence said: /*** sigh Want to save space on this website? Get rid of the entire Politics and Religion section. THIS! OMFG THIS!!!!!! For one, I personally think that the quality of these threads have been increasing. Two, if you don't like it then stop clicking. Agree.
 Fairy.Spence
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23780
By Fairy.Spence 2011-07-06 13:40:18
You think that's due to certain bans?
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2011-07-06 13:41:47
There goes that experimenting I was talking about.
Terminus said: It's always weird to me hearing that not everyone gets that experience. There's a 31 year old woman I work with having a baby who just saw her first birth (on a video in a pregnancy class) and his freaked out... staggering, and a little scary.
Well to be fair, I can only imagine giving birth to a baby must be pretty terrifying.
I feel a good sex-ed course is one of the best things you can teach a HS student. Regardless of if the parents choose to accept it, once kids hit 12 or so they start hearing and becoming interested in sex which could lead to "oops" moments if uneducated.
Better they learn something at school from people who are properly educated on the topic (we hope) than from friends convincing them that the pull out method works or that condoms are overrated.
Bahamut.Josseppi
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 106
By Bahamut.Josseppi 2011-07-06 13:43:47
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Josseppi said: Sylph.Anjali said: Seha, I do think every woman should have the option. And contrary to what a certain other crass poster said, I wasn't generalising anyone. I was talking about the perception in society now. If you accidentally get pregnant (not talking about rape victims here), the first thoughts should be "Am I ready to have a child?" and thinking that through. Not "Oh damn... should I get an abortion?". That should be the last thing we think about. There isn't really any clearer way to explain this other than what I've said. In society now, abortion is a quick thought. Not an easy decision, but a quick thought nevertheless. It isn't the last thing people consider. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the relation between that and the availability of abortion facilities, but you can see how others might. Personally I just think it's all to do with the many other things wrong with modern society, which is too long a discussion for this :) That being said, is it possible that we're reaching a point in society where we realize the morality of abortion is not as significant as the impact that each new life has on this earth. As we discover more and more about our planet and its resources, we theorize how many people the earth can sustain. Maybe our loss of morality is part of the evolutionary process. Our morals to conserve and protect new life/clumps of cells, has weekened simply because our need to continue the species has become less and less of a driving force in our lives. I have the same theory about homosexuality. People can debate all day long whether people are born or choose to be homosexuals. The reality is, its a bit of both plus environmental factors. The key question in all of this, is if people are born gay, why would the evolutionary process allow this? It makes sense if the process is somehow aware of the need to slow down population growth. Our bodies/minds are altering our genetics to give birth to humans who will be productive workers, happy with what they have in life, and a lot less likely to reproduce. Is it possible that our loss of morality over abortion is part of evolution? Are we subconciously making it ok for the overall better of the continuation of the species without our genetics in it? ...What the crap are you talking about lol?
It's called thinking outside the box. Is our moral center as a society becoming more open to lifestyle's and choices that keep our population in check in order to preserve the species as a whole? Unlike China where people are only allowed to have 1 child, we have the freedom to choose. Maybe our bodies/minds our making those decisions without our conscious thoughts making a choice.
Is there a chemical change going on inside of us due to the huge amounts of abnormal molecules being put into our bodies from immunizations, medicines, processed genetically modified foods, and many other environmental variables that are completely different since the beginning of industrialized society? The population of our world has grown right along with the availability of these items, it only seems to make sense that there would be an adverse effect to the population boom and longer life expectancy that would result in a diminshing natural desire to procreate and care for children in a world already reaching capacity.
By Halfpint 2011-07-06 14:04:26
Sex education then and now........
Sex education ala 1970 (height of "Sexual Revolution"),
4 days...during PE class
1)segregate boys and girls and give overview of the discussions
2) movies about puberty and body changes
3)show plastic anatomical model of flacid penis and testicles...show model of female pelvis before and during pregnancy, condoms and diaphram.
4)Talk about: abstinance and rhythm method of tracking period, femine hygene, and sexually transmitted diseases. Teach girsl how to put a condom on a banana, just incase they need to know.
Son's sex ed class 3 years ago...
classes co-ed, covered pretty much the same thing but.....
1)saw live action movie of man ejaculation into a woman's vagina,
2) time lapse video of a baby growing from conception to full term,
3) a live birth.
4)Full discussions of what abortion is and how it is done and all the laws applying to it.
5)All of the various STD's, what are avoidable, what are treatable, and how to protect yourself.
6) all methods of birth control and what are the most effective, and how you can screw up and get pregnant anyhow.
how times have changed
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 14:18:31
Bahamut.Josseppi said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Josseppi said: Sylph.Anjali said: Seha, I do think every woman should have the option. And contrary to what a certain other crass poster said, I wasn't generalising anyone. I was talking about the perception in society now. If you accidentally get pregnant (not talking about rape victims here), the first thoughts should be "Am I ready to have a child?" and thinking that through. Not "Oh damn... should I get an abortion?". That should be the last thing we think about. There isn't really any clearer way to explain this other than what I've said. In society now, abortion is a quick thought. Not an easy decision, but a quick thought nevertheless. It isn't the last thing people consider. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the relation between that and the availability of abortion facilities, but you can see how others might. Personally I just think it's all to do with the many other things wrong with modern society, which is too long a discussion for this :) That being said, is it possible that we're reaching a point in society where we realize the morality of abortion is not as significant as the impact that each new life has on this earth. As we discover more and more about our planet and its resources, we theorize how many people the earth can sustain. Maybe our loss of morality is part of the evolutionary process. Our morals to conserve and protect new life/clumps of cells, has weekened simply because our need to continue the species has become less and less of a driving force in our lives. I have the same theory about homosexuality. People can debate all day long whether people are born or choose to be homosexuals. The reality is, its a bit of both plus environmental factors. The key question in all of this, is if people are born gay, why would the evolutionary process allow this? It makes sense if the process is somehow aware of the need to slow down population growth. Our bodies/minds are altering our genetics to give birth to humans who will be productive workers, happy with what they have in life, and a lot less likely to reproduce. Is it possible that our loss of morality over abortion is part of evolution? Are we subconciously making it ok for the overall better of the continuation of the species without our genetics in it? ...What the crap are you talking about lol? It's called thinking outside the box. Is our moral center as a society becoming more open to lifestyle's and choices that keep our population in check in order to preserve the species as a whole? Unlike China where people are only allowed to have 1 child, we have the freedom to choose. Maybe our bodies/minds our making those decisions without our conscious thoughts making a choice. Is there a chemical change going on inside of us due to the huge amounts of abnormal molecules being put into our bodies from immunizations, medicines, processed genetically modified foods, and many other environmental variables that are completely different since the beginning of industrialized society? The population of our world has grown right along with the availability of these items, it only seems to make sense that there would be an adverse effect to the population boom and longer life expectancy that would result in a diminshing natural desire to procreate and care for children in a world already reaching capacity.
What? You are making no sense AT ALL...
That has NOTHING to do with evolution... and that is a ridiculous statement about "abnormal molecules".
Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-06 14:20:53
Jossy you look confused...
Fairy.Spence
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23780
By Fairy.Spence 2011-07-06 14:22:38
Well, I think he means the growing indifference towards abortion is society evolving to survive against an overpopulated world. That's what I get.
[+]
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 14:25:14
Fairy.Spence said: Well, I think he means the growing indifference towards abortion is society evolving to survive against an overpopulated world. That's what I get.
Thank you so much for putting an entire paragraph of babble into one sentence I can understand XD.
That is still not evolution though. It is a method of control implemented by science and technology, not natural change.
Fairy.Spence
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23780
By Fairy.Spence 2011-07-06 14:27:30
Well, that's arguable!
/shrug
By Shiva.Khimaira 2011-07-06 14:43:20
Dear god...
Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-06 14:44:48
Shiva.Khimaira said: Dear god... ..for this Christmas I'd like a new skateboard!
Bahamut.Josseppi
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 106
By Bahamut.Josseppi 2011-07-06 14:45:05
Haha, I'm not confused at all. Just trying to make people think of abortion in a different light. It is so commonly catorgorized as a women's rights issue or morality/religious issue, that the science and population control behind it is /shrugged off.
And yes, it can be considered an evolutionary process, just because the catalysts that force the change aren't natural doesn't mean our body/mind's reactions are not. We are creating medicines, vaccines, and GMO foods to deal with the natural limitations of this earth and our bodies. Now the technologies that we've created are creating new scenarios that our bodies have to adapt to in order to survive. I'm not talking about the abortion procedure itself, but the change in women that has lead to the debate we are having now.
Woman don't want to be told what to do - freedom of choice
Religious folks think life begins at conception - pro life argument
Abortion, though a medical procedure are a natural part of life on this earth as we evolve to addapt to our environment and preserve our species and planet for future generations. - pro science
Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-06 14:50:08
Adaptivity is different from evolution. Evolution will be when humans will be born already immune to the things we take vaccines for.
And also psychological evolution is different from biological evolution. You mixed the two a bit.
Fairy.Spence
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23780
By Fairy.Spence 2011-07-06 14:53:08
Something tells me a lot of people don't know how evolution actually works :/
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 14:58:09
Bahamut.Josseppi said: Haha, I'm not confused at all. Just trying to make people think of abortion in a different light. It is so commonly catorgorized as a women's rights issue or morality/religious issue, that the science and population control behind it is /shrugged off. And yes, it can be considered an evolutionary process, just because the catalysts that force the change aren't natural doesn't mean our body/mind's reactions are not. We are creating medicines, vaccines, and GMO foods to deal with the natural limitations of this earth and our bodies. Now the technologies that we've created are creating new scenarios that our bodies have to adapt to in order to survive. I'm not talking about the abortion procedure itself, but the change in women that has lead to the debate we are having now. Woman don't want to be told what to do - freedom of choice Religious folks think life begins at conception - pro life argument Abortion, though a medical procedure are a natural part of life on this earth as we evolve to addapt to our environment and preserve our species and planet for future generations. - pro science
Freedom of choice is not evolution.
You are comparing apples and oranges here. Our bodies are not changing as a result of contraception and the option of abortion, so I'm not entirely sure what you are highlighting as 'evolution' in regards to changes in our bodies and minds. When a woman is considering abortion I highly doubt she is thinking about the long term population of planet earth.
You mention new scenarios that our bodies have to adapt to in order to survive? What exactly are you referring to? I do not see any scenarios that are forcing a change in our bodies.
Can you give me some logical explanation behind these statements pls because they don't seem to be related to anything :3
Bahamut.Josseppi
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 106
By Bahamut.Josseppi 2011-07-06 15:15:06
We're to a point now where the slow process of physical evolution that we've studied for centuries is long since past. The process of physical adaptation to our environment became almost obsolete the minute we discovered how to use our minds to create tools and force ourselves to adapt to the changes in our surroundings. Though biological evolution is still gradually taking place, psychological evolution is more of a driving factor in or adaptation today.
Though they may be seperate in the nature of what is changing, psychological evolution is more or less in continuation with the biological evolutionary process. Our bodies have reached a point where we're satisfied (for the most part) with our physical abilities and traits, and we've discovered how to force evolution on our selves through immunizations that would have taken 100's if not 1000's of years to happen naturally if they ever happened at all.
Just because no other species isn't doing this, doesn't mean its not a part of evolution. Until we have other worlds of beings to compare to, we'll never know if what we've done since the devolopment of tools and communication is a natural part of a the cycle of life, or if its just our random luck that we developed conscious individualized thoughts and chronological memory parterns that lead to us debating abortion, smoking pot, or homosexuality.
So, with all that being said, the industrialization of our world community creating a strain on the once common large family, along with need to seek out happiness beyond that of child birth has created a period in history where it is starting to become even more commonly accepted that our lives aren't just about having babies. The life that is already here and developed is now more important than those we could potentially create simply for the fact that their are so damn many of us, we are running out of food, water, and sources of income, and it sometimes feels like bringing a child into this world would be cruel to a point. Whether or not this psychological evolution will play a bigger part in the biological evolution of humans and how we change is yet to be seen, but to say that it's not a part of the greater scheme of our development is like saying that pluto is a planet in our solar system. You learned it that way, but that doesn't mean that ideas and theories don't change.
Asura.Shylaa
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Asura.Shylaa 2011-07-06 15:23:15
We need more abortion options, and retroactive one's at that...
Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-06 17:12:32
I disagree. Anthropology has nothing to do with evolution.
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-07-06 17:15:47
Phoenix.Sehachan said: I disagree. Anthropology has nothing to do with evolution.
Agreed, although Jossepi made more sense in that last post, I can understand his point of view now.
 Bismarck.Misao
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22620
By Bismarck.Misao 2011-07-06 17:22:50
Fairy.Spence said: Something tells me a lot of people don't know how evolution actually works :/  lvl16 ->  lvl36 -> 
sorry, couldnt help it.
 Carbuncle.Lolserj
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2851
By Carbuncle.Lolserj 2011-07-06 17:24:31
Bismarck.Misao said: Fairy.Spence said: Something tells me a lot of people don't know how evolution actually works :/ lvl16 -> lvl36 ->
sorry, couldnt help it.
sometimes you have to use a thunderstone
[+]
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-06 17:27:22
Do creationists' pokemons all have everstones?
vs Kansas:
Kansas to Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic Friday | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/kansas-shut-down-all-abortion-clinics-friday
Quote: This story has been updated below.
It's official. Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1. As we reported last week, strict new state laws put in place this month threatened to close the remaining three abortion clinics in Kansas. The staff of one of these facilities, a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, initially thought their operation could survive the strict new standards. But on Thursday afternoon, Planned Parenthood announced that the Overland Park clinic has thus far been denied a license to continue operating—effectively cutting off access to legal abortion in the entire state.
The new law, which takes effect Friday, establishes new standards for abortion providers—standards apparently designed to make compliance difficult. The rules require changes to the size and number of rooms, compel clinics to have additional supplies on hand, and even mandate room temperatures for the facilities. Given that the rules were released less than two weeks before clinics were expected to be in compliance, many providers knew they wouldn't be able to obtain a license to continue operating. The laws, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or TRAP laws, are an increasingly common legislative maneuver to limit access to abortion by redering it tough, if not impossible, for providers to comply.
With today's announcement that the Overland Park clinic was denied a license, Kansas becomes the first state to effectively make the legally protected right to obtain abortion services moot. One clinic in Kansas has already filed suit against the new rules, and a hearing on that suit is planned for Friday. Planned Parenthood is also expected to sue. The clinics are also expected to seek an injunction to block the law from being enforced. UPDATE: Planned Parenthood has filed suit. They are seeking an emergency injunction to allow their clinic to remain open while the lawsuit is pending.
"The women of Kansas waiting on their scheduled procedures will pay the immediate price for this outrageous and flagrant exertion of the radical GOP’s legislative muscle under the Brownback administration," said Kansas NOW in a statement Thursday, referring to conservative Republican Gov. Sam Brownback. "The freedom and right to legal healthcare has been denied to the women of Kansas."
UPDATE: In a statement issued Thursday evening, Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, seemed to hold out some hope that its clinic could still obtain a license to continue operating, even as the organization sought an injuction to block the law from taking effect. "We have been targeted in this bill and Kansas women are the ones who will suffer if their health care is taken away," said Brownlie. "This is radical, extreme government intrusion into private health care."
UPDATE 5:45 PM EST THURSDAY: The Associated Press is reporting that the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, after initially denying a license to Planned Parenthood, has now changed their mind. Stay tuned for more updates. PP said inspectors were back at the clinic Thursday reevaluating it, after earlier this week indicating that they would not be able to obtain one.
UPDATE 6:08 PM EST THURSDAY: Planned Parenthood just announced that the health department has, in fact, decided to grant it a license to continue operating. The PP clinic in Overland Park will remain open. "Notwithstanding that the regulations are burdensome and unnecessary, the findings of the inspection indicate what we have known and said throughout this process: Planned Parenthood operates with the highest standards of patient care and has rigorous safety procedures in place," Brownlie said.
UPDATE 7:15 PM EST FRIDAY: A federal judge in Kansas City has blocked the new abortion clinic regulations from taking effect.
Kansas Judge Blocks Abortion Clinic Regs | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/07/kansas-judge-blocks-abortion-clinic-regs
Quote: A judge in Kansas has blocked the state's strict new regulations on abortion providers from taking effect, a move that will allow all three clinics in the state to continue offering services, the Kansas City Star reports.
On Friday afternoon, U.S District Judge Carlos Murguia granted a request from two clinics—Aid for Women in Kansas City and the Center for Women's Health in Overland Park—to grant temporary relief from the new rules, which took effect July 1. The clinics were denied a license to continue operating after the state issued new rules on June 17 that would have required both clinics to make major changes to their facilities. A third clinic, owned by Planned Parenthood, was granted a license to continue operating on Thursday.
The injunction will remain in place until the court hears the formal challenge to the state's regulations.
"This is a tremendous victory for women in Kansas and against the underhanded efforts of anti-choice politicians to shut down abortion providers in the state," said Center for Reproductive Rights president Nancy Northup, which joined with the clinics in filing the legal challenge to the law, in a statement Friday evening. "The facts were clear—this licensing process had absolutely nothing to do with patient health or safety and everything to do with political shenanigans."
The Kansas legislature passed a new law in April creating a new designation for abortion providers under the state's licensing system, and directed the Department of Health and Environment to issue new rules. The department issued 36-pages of rules on June 17 (though the clinics did not receive copies until June 20), mandating things like the size of waiting and recovery rooms, the number of bathrooms, and the required temperatures for each room in the facility. Clinic owners argued that it was impossible to meet the new standards, given that they were released just two weeks before the clinics were required to comply. Moreover, they argued, the rules had little to do with protecting patients and were designed to shut down the clinics.
This type of law, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or "TRAP" laws, isn't exactly new or unique, but Kansas' would have gone farther than others in actually shutting down abortion providers.
Kate Sheppard covers energy and environmental politics in Mother Jones' Washington bureau. For more of her stories, click here. She Tweets here. Get Kate Sheppard's RSS feed.
|
|
