Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.

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Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-10-31 16:10:02
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Which don't occur on WS
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-10-31 16:12:48
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I'm at work all day, so I don't have my spreadsheet with me. But I'll post the spreadsheet numbers later.

Req. will still have it's place, but CDC will beat it fairly easily on most content.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-10-31 16:14:08
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
For PLD I can believe CDC being superior to Req, since the likelihood of a Paladin reaching the attack threshold that makes Req better is not very high. All told, however, Requiescat is the superior weaponskill. Just for actual DDs.

I have it winning with Dia2 and Frailty(without JA) as long as you have at least two +1 minuets(my BRDs don't know how to use their harps) against Tojil.

It's a difficult thing to simulate, though. Making assumptions about a role that doesn't exist in current content, etc.
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By amadis 2013-10-31 16:16:26
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If your attack is far from cap then CDC will win, all other situations Req wins.
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By amadis 2013-10-31 16:18:06
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(yes that is using spreadsheet numbers, not assumption)
I am a 99 Almace owner and it makes me sad but its a fact.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-10-31 16:22:08
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Almace unfortunately compounds the problem. when CDC is at its strongest, Almace is at its weakest
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-10-31 16:26:56
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Well weakest is subjective. If you mean "slightly behind Excalibur" then sure. If you mean "in situations where you're fighting high level mobs then you'll want Burtgang's damage mitigation too", then sure.

So like I said:

Burt > Excal > Almace after RME upgrade.

I'll check my spreadsheet at home, I'm still getting CDC > Req most of the time, and especially when you're not getting lots of buffs.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-10-31 16:31:09
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What constitutes "lots of buffs", what role are you playing, and what are you fighting?

I feel like you're modeling a scenario that hasn't existed for years
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-10-31 16:37:55
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Using a simulated Tojil, which is my normal torture test for these sorts of things due to him being the most difficult thing to cap attack on at the moment, with absolute maximum buffs/debuffs (4x +5 Mins, 2x +5 Mads, 11 chaos, 11 hunter, 11 fighter, 11 rogue, capped boost-str, berserk, aggressor, red curry, frailty, max dia, max box step, 25% DEF down) and the set posted in the OP and Buramenk'ah, we're looking at an average Requiescat of 4319 and an average Chant du Cygne of 3145 (p.s. mikinaak cuisses and wanion belt > ogier breeches and ele belt).

When we start removing buffs, which is a far more realistic scenario set in terms of available resources and the fact that a tank party isn't very likely to be getting SV songs and COR rolls, we see it level off as expected, but on a very slow curve. In order for CDC to finally beat Requiescat, you'd have to have no debuffs or buffs whatsoever outside of food, at which point you shouldn't even be engaged as you'd be a liability.

I've done a lot of work comparing these two weaponskills on BLU, and the trend is actually quite different for PLD. For BLU, CDC is better up until around 1.7~1.8 ratio, but on PLD it takes nearly floored ratio for CDC to pull ahead. I can only chalk this up to inferior dDEX and gear selection for CDC that PLD has access to.
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 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-10-31 22:05:07
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Do people bring Pld to Tojil still?

And do you actually get any real attack buffs when you do lol?

Either way, we're going to have 2 great sword WS options paired with some outstanding upgraded RME options after this next update. Pretty exciting.
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-11-01 01:37:50
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No, PLD's only real niche in the game right now that I can think of is tanking Wildskeeper Reives. I'm guessing we'll see it cyclically relied upon whenever new hard content comes out (2xPLD + 6RNG setups, for example) until people figure out a way to do it faster.
 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2013-11-01 04:00:35
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Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Well weakest is subjective. If you mean "slightly behind Excalibur" then sure. If you mean "in situations where you're fighting high level mobs then you'll want Burtgang's damage mitigation too", then sure.

So like I said:

Burt > Excal > Almace after RME upgrade.

I'll check my spreadsheet at home, I'm still getting CDC > Req most of the time, and especially when you're not getting lots of buffs.
If your doing relevant content and using PLD and that PLD is getting any kind of offensive buffs you're doing it wrong like like neo says.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 06:27:59
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As opposed to giving them what? Ballad and Minne? They'll generate less enmity and slow progress. The tanking role may not exist at the present, but turning the clocks backward looking for strategies isn't going to help paladin.

Please stop with the, "yeah! What Neo said!". He can speak for himself, and your support isn't doing him any favors.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-01 06:41:31
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i find that having ballads is much more beneficial than minuets for t2 wildkeepers(after march, of course), which are also the only current content that PLD can justify it's slot on
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 06:46:27
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When the zone is a mess, I can imagine. If you can get a tank party organized I find them much less beneficial(on PLD or RUN).
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-01 06:51:07
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i'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible to stay near hate cap(for the purposes of math, define that as >90% of cap, it isn't meant to be vague so much as avoid erring by saying staying at it) on yumcax without ballads and a cure cheat

i mean, if your entire premise is the current metagame then you should probably give some attention to the 1 mob that an ideal group would include a PLD for
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 06:57:59
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Forgot Yumcax existed, so point taken. Buffs were being used to steer WS usage, though, which is all but completely irrelevant in that situation.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-01 07:06:48
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not going to pretend natenn has any idea what he's talking about, and obviously neo is a bit behind on current events, but the entire premise is silly

pld doesn't really belong in delve(acceptable in morimar to hold turtle, but any dd can do that with no negative effect on speed since eft/raptor should die before it's ready anyway) so delve buffs are irrelevant

unless i'm missing a reason to use pld on anything besides WKR(and really just yumcax and tchakka at that), CDC does seem to be the best ws for a typical PLD situation
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 07:09:56
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I prefaced several responses with the arbitrary nature of the discussion. I'm working under the assumption that someone insists upon using their PLD in silly situations, because in the single appropriate situation you noted, a WS debate doesn't exist.

That said, Requiescat depends much more on defense downs than attack ups. And fairly conservative ones at that.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-11-01 10:58:36
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No reason to become hostile. We just made different assumptions on usage when we were asserting which WSs would be superior and useful.

I always saw Pld as a job people used when content was new and hard, or when they're having fun low manning/soloing some old content for fun. So in those situations, when a Pld isn't getting as many buffs, CDC pulls ahead.

As much as Pld will always be my favorite job, I was the first person to drop it from the alliance as soon as we could do it with a faster melee strat.

The point is, it's great that we have a choice between the WSs based on the mob we're fighting, buffs, and debuffs. And knowing when each WS will shine benefits us all.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 11:30:29
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No hostility intended. Natenn's thoughtless injections were just irritating.
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 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2013-11-01 12:56:46
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
As opposed to giving them what? Ballad and Minne? They'll generate less enmity and slow progress. The tanking role may not exist at the present, but turning the clocks backward looking for strategies isn't going to help paladin.

Please stop with the, "yeah! What Neo said!". He can speak for himself, and your support isn't doing him any favors.
should be getting march/ballad if you do have a brd
 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2013-11-01 13:12:49
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
thoughtless injections
 Asura.Izilder
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By Asura.Izilder 2013-11-04 15:15:22
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The attributes for the sword Excalibur have been adjusted.
Excalibur's additional effect will now take precedence over En- spells.


this means we can stack enlight now with the added affect ? - if so thats worth something or it just means you cant apply enlight? which would suck at times.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2013-11-04 15:31:26
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I'm pretty sure it means we can use enlight now without it screwing the Excal added effect, but I guess we can wait and test.

I'm satisfied with the REM upgrades, though the base damage was slightly lower than I was expecting.
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By Sylph.Feary 2013-11-04 16:54:25
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so pld only needs like 5 sets? what about af 1 2 and 3? any uses?
im sorting thru my inventory and want to free up space.
 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2013-11-04 19:37:12
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Is Bura+CDC > Sharur+Realmrazer now?
 Asura.Arcc
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By Asura.Arcc 2013-11-08 06:47:18
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So, I've been out of FFXI since. . . well before Abyssea.

While this and other guides have been useful for relearning my job, I don't recognize some of the acronyms people are throwing around these days, like CDC. Anyone got a list of the relevant ones?
 Quetzalcoatl.Busta
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By Quetzalcoatl.Busta 2013-11-09 12:04:18
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@Arcc
CDC amoung others
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Empyrean_Weapons
Realmrazer
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Merit_Points
I guess work your way through Abyssea until u can get more familiar with new contents(newer)
 Fenrir.Shaun
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By Fenrir.Shaun 2013-11-09 15:32:40
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Nice guide. haven't really played my PLD since the 75 cap much... back then in endgame most people didn't fully understand enmity to a full point on my server, was fun to exploit over certain tanks that annoyed me in the shell I was in lol.
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