Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.
Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
It bounces around so much that it doesn't really help and it puts you at a greater chance of dying given TP move selection. :P
Even if you could survive against all of Dynamis Lord's physical & magical abilities/spells, what can you do about his Chainspell Death (spell)? Even without Chainspell, it would be difficult to expect every Death to be stunned as just a duo.
Lock in shadow ring and pray? I've never actually seen him cast death, though. Does he only cast it during CS?
Actually, how would you stun Death anyway? Aren't all his spells instant casts? The nukes are I know. Does he cast death slowly? Or does stunning that involve stun spam/massive luck?
Actually, how would you stun Death anyway? Aren't all his spells instant casts? The nukes are I know. Does he cast death slowly? Or does stunning that involve stun spam/massive luck?
you dont need to use height difference for mages to avoid AOEs if you positioned it well at the pop spot, i used to place mages at the pillars
idk if pld could solo/duo it fast enough before YY come's for you either - think the lowest ive seen it killed with no 2 hours is with 2 ninjas an Aegis/Almace pld a brd and a whm iirc.
idk if pld could solo/duo it fast enough before YY come's for you either - think the lowest ive seen it killed with no 2 hours is with 2 ninjas an Aegis/Almace pld a brd and a whm iirc.
Your problem will be terra slash, conal death that's absorbed by shadows. Even if you manage to have shadows up, he can spawn clones and do 4x terra slash and insta wipe you. Easily 6manned without 2hrs at 90 with vere mnk x2 brd thf rdm and a whm mule, could be done with 3-4 probably.
Ying and Yang aren't really an issue. They mostly bounce off me. The worst thing they do is petro eyes. And the combination of that and the WHM having just lost all his MP for manastorm is what killed me. If I can keep Ard out of manastorm range, so I can stona, they won't be a problem.
We're talking about DL, not Arch DL. I hadn't even considered trying to duo him... yet.
Although, IF Arch DL's Teraslash is physical dmg(like DL's is) then the death additional effect can most likely be prevented via shield block.
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Your problem will be terra slash, conal death that's absorbed by shadows. Even if you manage to have shadows up, he can spawn clones and do 4x terra slash and insta wipe you. Easily 6manned without 2hrs at 90 with vere mnk x2 brd thf rdm and a whm mule, could be done with 3-4 probably.
We're talking about DL, not Arch DL. I hadn't even considered trying to duo him... yet.
Although, IF Arch DL's Teraslash is physical dmg(like DL's is) then the death additional effect can most likely be prevented via shield block.
Dynamis lord summons adds at random just like arch DL, these depop though. edit: Terra slsash can be blocked? Interesting. Would be plausible if it doesn't actually cast death on you, and you don't get unlucky on adds.
Yeah, only wipes that ever happened were due to having a dualboxed healer and badly timed 4x tera slash. Could easily get 6+ kills per run without 2hr usage.
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Dynamis lord summons adds at random just like arch DL, these depop though.
Is this... new? I don't ever recall seeing normal DL call adds. I do recall that the shadow lord does that in fiat lux, though.
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Terra slsash can be blocked? Interesting. Would be plausible if it doesn't actually cast death on you, and you don't get unlucky on adds.
A blocked attack's additional effects will not land. So if that death is an add effect, blocking should prevent it.
Pretty much every WS DL has(can't say for sure with Arch though) is physical. None of his WS landed any statuses on me.
I figured it was just a conal death move that was blocked by shadows for some reason, I guess en-death is possible. Pretty sure old DL could still summon adds rarely, had it happen maybe once per 6 fights when I went at 90 for rings and mantles.
Normal DL could summon adds since its introduction, as far as I'm aware.
While I'm thinking about it, what merits do PLDs currently use?
I realized yesterday that since my PLD was 74 until recently, I hadn't thought about what merits to put into it. I have 2 in shield, and a couple in mp (to help while leveling PLD and a minor boost to my WHM). Aside from that I don't think I ever plotted out the merits to get.
I realized yesterday that since my PLD was 74 until recently, I hadn't thought about what merits to put into it. I have 2 in shield, and a couple in mp (to help while leveling PLD and a minor boost to my WHM). Aside from that I don't think I ever plotted out the merits to get.
Sentinel Recast 5/5
Depending on what "Enhances Cover 2" does at 99 with relic+2 body, that may be worthwhile, however I rarely get to use cover nowadays, and make use of the relic body cover bonus even less often.
With Aegis, Shield Bash 5/5 is nice. Without, Rampart 5/5.
As for group 2:
More room to play here. I do a lot of low man stuff, so capped Chivalry is very useful. Fealty needs at least 1 point. Can base your merits in the other 2 based on your desire/need. I never really used Rampart as a "way to get my shadows back up", so never put merits into the spell interrupt bonus to rampart.
Personally, due to my playstyles, I did
5/5 sentinel
5/5 shield bash
5/5 chivalry
5/5 fealty.
Depending on what "Enhances Cover 2" does at 99 with relic+2 body, that may be worthwhile, however I rarely get to use cover nowadays, and make use of the relic body cover bonus even less often.
With Aegis, Shield Bash 5/5 is nice. Without, Rampart 5/5.
As for group 2:
More room to play here. I do a lot of low man stuff, so capped Chivalry is very useful. Fealty needs at least 1 point. Can base your merits in the other 2 based on your desire/need. I never really used Rampart as a "way to get my shadows back up", so never put merits into the spell interrupt bonus to rampart.
Personally, due to my playstyles, I did
5/5 sentinel
5/5 shield bash
5/5 chivalry
5/5 fealty.
What about the non-PLD specific merits like sword/shield/hp/mp/etc?
Depends on your other jobs.
With current buffs, I moved all MP merits to full HP for survivability (and enmity lost via damage taken is proportional to the amount of hp lost relative to your max hp). Sword merits will always help, if you're not sacrificing the acc/attack need for another job you play more (or perhaps need to reach some WS procs).
Shield has pretty low results, but any solid Pld should have shield merits.
I have capped sword/shield/hp. Spell Interupt and Crit hit rate capped. Though spell interupt isn't that super unless it's helping you out on a good spell interupt equipment build.
With current buffs, I moved all MP merits to full HP for survivability (and enmity lost via damage taken is proportional to the amount of hp lost relative to your max hp). Sword merits will always help, if you're not sacrificing the acc/attack need for another job you play more (or perhaps need to reach some WS procs).
Shield has pretty low results, but any solid Pld should have shield merits.
I have capped sword/shield/hp. Spell Interupt and Crit hit rate capped. Though spell interupt isn't that super unless it's helping you out on a good spell interupt equipment build.
Hey all, back with a small bit of shield testing data. This time I took a different approach: Ballista. I had doubts that shield block rates would function the same inside Ballista, but after getting about a 2,000+ sample, it seems that the block rates function normally & are at what you would expect on the same level mob outside Ballista, averaging at around a 53% block rate with Aegis (95) on an Even Match (player that was the same level as me, Lv.95).
With this, we will be able to compare the effects of shield block rate in relation to the attacker's level without any doubts of their actual level.
Here is the data & analysis. For the sake of keeping the players who helped me with this test anonymous, I'll just label them as Player1, Player2, etc.
My Job/Level: PLD95/SCH47
Shield: Aegis (95)
Shield Skill: 404 (Includes 4/4 Shield Skill Merits, No extra skill+ gear was used).
Buffs: Light Arts, Regen, & nothing else.
Equipment remained static for each parse. No gear swaps mid parse.
Player1 Job/Level: THF95/NIN47
*Note: Raider's (AF3+2) set was not used for these tests, as to not confuse the difference between blocked damage & unblocked damage.
Hits: 2,007
Blocks: 1,083
Block Rate: 53.96%
Player2 Job/Level: RDM95/BLM47
Hits: 836
Blocks: 433
Block Rate: 51.79%
Average Block Data Between Lv.95s:
Hits: 2,843
Blocks: 1,516
Block Rate: 53.32%
Player3 Job/Level: BRD90/RNG45
Hits: 1,029
Blocks: 648
Block Rate: 62.97%
The block rate difference from the level 95's & level 90 appears to be 9.65%, which is equal to roughly 1.93% block rate gained per level the mob is below your level. Due to variation & sample size, the actual number would likely be 2% block rate per level difference.
Parse Data (each player may have multiple parts due to stopping/starting the parser when the Ballista match ended until the next match began):
With this, we will be able to compare the effects of shield block rate in relation to the attacker's level without any doubts of their actual level.
Here is the data & analysis. For the sake of keeping the players who helped me with this test anonymous, I'll just label them as Player1, Player2, etc.
My Job/Level: PLD95/SCH47
Shield: Aegis (95)
Shield Skill: 404 (Includes 4/4 Shield Skill Merits, No extra skill+ gear was used).
Buffs: Light Arts, Regen, & nothing else.
Equipment remained static for each parse. No gear swaps mid parse.
Player1 Job/Level: THF95/NIN47
*Note: Raider's (AF3+2) set was not used for these tests, as to not confuse the difference between blocked damage & unblocked damage.
Hits: 2,007
Blocks: 1,083
Block Rate: 53.96%
Player2 Job/Level: RDM95/BLM47
Hits: 836
Blocks: 433
Block Rate: 51.79%
Average Block Data Between Lv.95s:
Hits: 2,843
Blocks: 1,516
Block Rate: 53.32%
Player3 Job/Level: BRD90/RNG45
Hits: 1,029
Blocks: 648
Block Rate: 62.97%
The block rate difference from the level 95's & level 90 appears to be 9.65%, which is equal to roughly 1.93% block rate gained per level the mob is below your level. Due to variation & sample size, the actual number would likely be 2% block rate per level difference.
Parse Data (each player may have multiple parts due to stopping/starting the parser when the Ballista match ended until the next match began):
Ballista shield testing... That's bloody brilliant. XD
And you can actually speed up the rate of hits taken since haste gear/buffs are usable. The biggest drawbacks would be the time limit, and the BP req. for diorama reservation.
So this will let us get accurate lvl data against, lower lvls than the pld, but..
Can you lvl sync in a ballista match? If you can, then you could gather data on a large range of lvl differences, by syncing the PLD. If you can't, then you'd actually need a lower lvl PLD, which is rather limiting.
Although, syncing could have it's own issues. Reducing Ochain's, def by a large amount might put it's DMG reduction below the point of block/non-block overlap. It'd probly be less an issue with Aegis of normal shields that have a higher base DMG reduction
And you can actually speed up the rate of hits taken since haste gear/buffs are usable. The biggest drawbacks would be the time limit, and the BP req. for diorama reservation.
So this will let us get accurate lvl data against, lower lvls than the pld, but..
Can you lvl sync in a ballista match? If you can, then you could gather data on a large range of lvl differences, by syncing the PLD. If you can't, then you'd actually need a lower lvl PLD, which is rather limiting.
Although, syncing could have it's own issues. Reducing Ochain's, def by a large amount might put it's DMG reduction below the point of block/non-block overlap. It'd probly be less an issue with Aegis of normal shields that have a higher base DMG reduction
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Can you lvl sync in a ballista match?
Edit: The only problem with lowering your level would be the inability to equip Ochain or Aegis if you go below Lv.90, or have already upgraded them to Lv.95. Other shields such as Koenig Shield could still be used in place though, and we can still test shield block floor rate whenever they decide to add the ability to manipulate Shield Skill levels that was mentioned a while back.
Since most players haven't been able to upgrade their Ochain to Lv.95 due to the Heavy Metal Plate trial, and Lv.99 is just around the corner to be implemented on the test server, you could likely do a test as Lv.90 PLD with Ochain versus a Lv.99 player and see the results.
Ran some tests to see if I could find the shield block rate floor. The data is as follows:
My Job/Level: DRK76/SCH38
Shields: Januwiyah +1 & Koenig Shield
Shield Skill: 8 (Due to merits)
Buffs: Light Arts, Regen, & nothing else.
Equipment remained static for each parse. No gear swaps mid parse.
Player1 Job/Level: THF95/NIN47
*Note: Raider's (AF3+2) set was not used for these tests, as to not confuse the difference between blocked damage & unblocked damage. Also used a single dagger for these tests rather than Dual Wield.
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 677
Blocks: 26
Block Rate: 3.84%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 519
Blocks: 39
Block Rate: 7.51%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 1,196
Blocks: 65
Block Rate: 5.43%
Player2 Job/Level: RDM95/BLM47
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 438
Blocks: 26
Block Rate: 5.94%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 325
Blocks: 14
Block Rate: 4.31%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 763
Blocks: 40
Block Rate: 5.24%
Total Averages
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 1,115
Blocks: 52
Block Rate: 4.66%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 844
Blocks: 53
Block Rate: 6.28%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 1,959
Blocks: 105
Block Rate: 5.36%
Given the sample size & variance, it would seem that shield block rates floor at around 5%. Unknown if Ochain & Aegis shares the same floor rate (if you could even find a mob to floor Ochain's block rate low enough).
Parse Data
My Job/Level: DRK76/SCH38
Shields: Januwiyah +1 & Koenig Shield
Shield Skill: 8 (Due to merits)
Buffs: Light Arts, Regen, & nothing else.
Equipment remained static for each parse. No gear swaps mid parse.
Player1 Job/Level: THF95/NIN47
*Note: Raider's (AF3+2) set was not used for these tests, as to not confuse the difference between blocked damage & unblocked damage. Also used a single dagger for these tests rather than Dual Wield.
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 677
Blocks: 26
Block Rate: 3.84%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 519
Blocks: 39
Block Rate: 7.51%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 1,196
Blocks: 65
Block Rate: 5.43%
Player2 Job/Level: RDM95/BLM47
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 438
Blocks: 26
Block Rate: 5.94%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 325
Blocks: 14
Block Rate: 4.31%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 763
Blocks: 40
Block Rate: 5.24%
Total Averages
Januwiyah +1
Hits: 1,115
Blocks: 52
Block Rate: 4.66%
Koenig Shield
Hits: 844
Blocks: 53
Block Rate: 6.28%
Both Shields Averaged
Hits: 1,959
Blocks: 105
Block Rate: 5.36%
Given the sample size & variance, it would seem that shield block rates floor at around 5%. Unknown if Ochain & Aegis shares the same floor rate (if you could even find a mob to floor Ochain's block rate low enough).
Parse Data
Interesting.
BTW, why have the thf single wield? They'd hit faster dual wielding, so your sample would accumulate more quickly. I can't see any need to have them single wield. Unless them dual wielding was causing survival issues?
It seems to me, that the next thing to do, would be to start increasing shield skill to observe the changes.
We could check to see if skill vs block rate behaves differently at different skill lvls.
There's about ~50 skill worth of shield skill that DRK can wear. Although some of it is rather rare. There's +36 skill worth of common gear though. Common: Skeld sword/sinfender, Acheron shield(only good for size 3 tests) torque, buckler earring and boxer's. Rare: radiant mail, portus annulet, knight's earring.
For more skill, you could use sub jobs with shield skill. Could get skill +'s ranging from +89(F) to + 117(A+) using various subs.
BTW, why have the thf single wield? They'd hit faster dual wielding, so your sample would accumulate more quickly. I can't see any need to have them single wield. Unless them dual wielding was causing survival issues?
It seems to me, that the next thing to do, would be to start increasing shield skill to observe the changes.
We could check to see if skill vs block rate behaves differently at different skill lvls.
There's about ~50 skill worth of shield skill that DRK can wear. Although some of it is rather rare. There's +36 skill worth of common gear though. Common: Skeld sword/sinfender, Acheron shield(only good for size 3 tests) torque, buckler earring and boxer's. Rare: radiant mail, portus annulet, knight's earring.
For more skill, you could use sub jobs with shield skill. Could get skill +'s ranging from +89(F) to + 117(A+) using various subs.
Great testing as always.
I'm in the middle of finals, but since this thread is now sticked, I'll get to work on re-formatting the main page to include sections for all the currently tested and yet to be tested data, as well as links and info to all the tests that have been done. Finals for me will be over Dec 15th, so I'll work on finishing that the weekend after that (17th/18th).
What do you guys think should be in the main page?
1. Example Spellcast. (im actually remaking mine based on a more advanced Motenen version I found, I'll post when done.)
2. Emnity/Damage formulas and links.
3. Shield testing by size (with JA, reprisal, all the work thats been done and posted here so far).
4. Optimum/example sets (best sets, or maybe a range based on attainability?)
5. Maybe something fun like Pld solos, useful tips, or links to videos/etc?
Any input?
I'm in the middle of finals, but since this thread is now sticked, I'll get to work on re-formatting the main page to include sections for all the currently tested and yet to be tested data, as well as links and info to all the tests that have been done. Finals for me will be over Dec 15th, so I'll work on finishing that the weekend after that (17th/18th).
What do you guys think should be in the main page?
1. Example Spellcast. (im actually remaking mine based on a more advanced Motenen version I found, I'll post when done.)
2. Emnity/Damage formulas and links.
3. Shield testing by size (with JA, reprisal, all the work thats been done and posted here so far).
4. Optimum/example sets (best sets, or maybe a range based on attainability?)
5. Maybe something fun like Pld solos, useful tips, or links to videos/etc?
Any input?
Phoenix.Neosutra said: »
Great testing as always.
I'm in the middle of finals, but since this thread is now sticked, I'll get to work on re-formatting the main page to include sections for all the currently tested and yet to be tested data, as well as links and info to all the tests that have been done. Finals for me will be over Dec 15th, so I'll work on finishing that the weekend after that (17th/18th).
What do you guys think should be in the main page?
1. Example Spellcast. (im actually remaking mine based on a more advanced Motenen version I found, I'll post when done.)
2. Emnity/Damage formulas and links.
3. Shield testing by size (with JA, reprisal, all the work thats been done and posted here so far).
4. Optimum/example sets (best sets, or maybe a range based on attainability?)
5. Maybe something fun like Pld solos, useful tips, or links to videos/etc?
Any input?
I'm in the middle of finals, but since this thread is now sticked, I'll get to work on re-formatting the main page to include sections for all the currently tested and yet to be tested data, as well as links and info to all the tests that have been done. Finals for me will be over Dec 15th, so I'll work on finishing that the weekend after that (17th/18th).
What do you guys think should be in the main page?
1. Example Spellcast. (im actually remaking mine based on a more advanced Motenen version I found, I'll post when done.)
2. Emnity/Damage formulas and links.
3. Shield testing by size (with JA, reprisal, all the work thats been done and posted here so far).
4. Optimum/example sets (best sets, or maybe a range based on attainability?)
5. Maybe something fun like Pld solos, useful tips, or links to videos/etc?
Any input?
[+]
Cool beans. I'll do most of the work in word so I have a backup copy this time and send you a copy when done. Won't be for another two weeks though due to finals.
Law school is draining the life out of me.
Law school is draining the life out of me.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Interesting. BTW, why have the thf single wield?
Ahh, makes perfect sense. Maybe grab a pair of identical DMG daggers for future testing?
I'm always hesitant to use Ballista testing due to SE seeming to alter specific damage/status effects when used on PvP rather than mobs. However the testing seems to be in line with what we've already seen.
Will be nice when 99 comes around and we can add some finality to Aegis/Ochain 99 block rates and gear choices for maximum damage reduction.
Will be nice when 99 comes around and we can add some finality to Aegis/Ochain 99 block rates and gear choices for maximum damage reduction.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
It seems to me, that the next thing to do, would be to start increasing shield skill to observe the changes.
We could check to see if skill vs block rate behaves differently at different skill lvls.
We could check to see if skill vs block rate behaves differently at different skill lvls.
My Job/Level: DRK76/PLD38
Shield: Koenig Shield
Shield Skill: 145
Buffs: None
Equipment remained static for each parse. No gear swaps mid parse.
Player1 Job/Level: THF95/NIN47
*Note: Raider's (AF3+2) set was not used for these tests, as to not confuse the difference between blocked damage & unblocked damage.
Hits: 1,992
Blocks: 111
Block Rate: 5.57%
Player2 Job/Level: RDM95/BLM47
Hits: 1,041
Blocks: 49
Block Rate: 4.71%
Total Averages
Hits: 3,033
Blocks: 160
Block Rate: 5.28%
It appears that even with 145 shield skill, block rate is still floored at 5% on Lv.95 targets. The only other step at this point would be to either level DRK to Lv.95 for a small amount of extra skill (via Lv.47 PLD sub), or use lower level attackers. The problem with lower level attackers would be their accuracy, likely floored at 20% hit rate, which would greatly increase the time needed to gather data.
Parse Dara
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