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Abyssea Era Ending?
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 09:44:02
Quote: Not everyone could kill Tiamat, Nidhogg or even Fafnir.
Because they sucked.
Though, I can rephrase my answer.
If your group was any good, there's no difficulty change. Easy vs Easy.
If your group sucked, then abyssea offered some relief, I guess.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-27 09:48:14
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: Not everyone could kill Tiamat, Nidhogg or even Fafnir.
Because they sucked.
Though, I can rephrase my answer.
If your group was any good, there's no difficulty change. Easy vs Easy.
If your group sucked, then abyssea offered some relief, I guess.
A pretty overwhelming majority did suck though.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 09:49:04
Well, if all the people in this thread here advocating that are willing to admit they sucked, so that's why abyssea seems so much easier, then I'll be ok with that.
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 09:49:58
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: Not everyone could kill Tiamat, Nidhogg or even Fafnir.
Because they sucked.
Though, I can rephrase my answer.
If your group was any good, there's no difficulty change. Easy vs Easy.
If your group sucked, then abyssea offered some relief, I guess. If you compare those NMs back in the day with the NMs right now.. Idk but there is a big change in difficulty. You couldn't rly half *** Tiamat. Maybe if you got 18 ppl but that would be rather rare because of the big pop window. Tanks had to pay some attention, same with mages. Now you just need 2 macros pretty much. Cure5 and 6. You can kill everything with 3-5 ppl easily. Any group. Except rani etc but well, can use a brew! Back in the day it was rather hard to kill NH with 3-5 ppl. And no brew available. Either you were good or you wiped.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-02-27 09:51:25
The only problem I have with Abyssea is the fact that it makes the game feel small and cramped.
It would be nice if SE made Sky, Sea, Salvage and Einherjar equally relevant to Abyssea, or a new event equally relevant.
It would make it feel like the game isn't taking place in 6 zones only.
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 09:52:05
Odin.Zicdeh said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: Not everyone could kill Tiamat, Nidhogg or even Fafnir.
Because they sucked.
Though, I can rephrase my answer.
If your group was any good, there's no difficulty change. Easy vs Easy.
If your group sucked, then abyssea offered some relief, I guess.
A pretty overwhelming majority did suck though.
Exactly, most sucked. They didn't deserve top gear. Now it doesn't matter if you suck. You can still get the best gear. Imo that is sad. And even if you didn't suck those NMs were atleast somewhat "harder" than any of the ***in abyssea. But don't get me wrong, I love both. Was fun to do somethign else but it's time to go back to "normal" content.
 Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 09:52:47
Shiva.Flionheart said: It would make it feel like the game isn't taking place in 6 zones only. Hey you got port jueno too and the first 3 abyssea zones when you are grinding out your empyrean weapons
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 09:53:28
Look at it this way. Rdm + brd were refresh atma. Unless your tank really sucked, w/ refresh and ballads (now even w/o if you're outside of abyssea ballad III and refresh II), you're not going to run out of mp.
Someone in the group to cast refresh on you isn't necessarily harder, it's just something that may be required. The same w/ refresh atma. Go take them off, it'll be the same thing. Take off refresh atma, add a rdm and a brd for refresh II and ballad III and II, ***won't be any harder. The atma just makes the 2 bodies not required.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-02-27 09:55:48
Bahamut.Dasva said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It would make it feel like the game isn't taking place in 6 zones only. Hey you got port jueno too and the first 3 abyssea zones when you are grinding out your empyrean weapons
I think my point still stands lol.
I don't like there being one endgame for all. Not for any reason other than it gets boring and samey.
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 09:56:47
You are seriously saying old ffxi wasn't harder?
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 09:57:21
"harder" implies that either of them were hard to begin with. Neither them were hard.
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Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 09:57:31
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Look at it this way. Rdm + brd were refresh atma. Unless your tank really sucked, w/ refresh and ballads (now even w/o if you're outside of abyssea ballad III and refresh II), you're not going to run out of mp. Someone in the group to cast refresh on you isn't necessarily harder, it's just something that may be required. The same w/ refresh atma. Go take them off, it'll be the same thing. Take off refresh atma, add a rdm and a brd for refresh II and ballad III and II, ***won't be any harder. The atma just makes the 2 bodies not required. Not everyone had the bodys or the right bodies
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 09:58:04
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: "harder" implies that either of them were hard to begin with. Neither them were hard. Not really. Something can be easy and still be harder than something easier. It's just a comparison says nothing about the actual lvl of difficulty
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 09:59:19
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: "harder" implies that either of them were hard to begin with. Neither them were hard. So everyone and their mom were able to kill NH and stuff like that? Even with shoutgroups? You could do that stuff without looking at the screen pretty much?
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 10:00:37
Not saying you had to have a *** uber pro linkshell with everyone having a relic to barely be able to kill something. But if you think that everyone was able to kill everything like they can today.. then idk.
 Asura.Nalien
Server: Asura
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Posts: 71
By Asura.Nalien 2011-02-27 10:01:46
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Look at it this way. Rdm + brd were refresh atma. Unless your tank really sucked, w/ refresh and ballads (now even w/o if you're outside of abyssea ballad III and refresh II), you're not going to run out of mp.
Someone in the group to cast refresh on you isn't necessarily harder, it's just something that may be required. The same w/ refresh atma. Go take them off, it'll be the same thing. Take off refresh atma, add a rdm and a brd for refresh II and ballad III and II, ***won't be any harder. The atma just makes the 2 bodies not required. lol
Try the same argument with DDs.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-02-27 10:02:20
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: "harder" implies that either of them were hard to begin with. Neither them were hard.
Still though, with both being easy one still has to be more difficult than the other unless they are exactly the same.
Bismarck.Nalien
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 114
By Bismarck.Nalien 2011-02-27 10:02:57
It's probably a good idea to just flat out ignore him, his arguments are full of ***. (See Player := Atma)
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Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:04:04
It's not really even abyssea specifically that makes things "easy", it's the sheer amount of MP you have access to in comparison. Let's say we exit abyssea. Whm can get what? 5/tic refresh (2 body, 1 hands/feet, 1 weapon, 1 head) base, add a rdm, refresh II 6/tic, ballad III and II for well idk how +ballad works but I'd assume an extra 1/tic so w/ +2 ballad gear (no relic) 2+2 = 4, 3+2 = 5, so in case I'm wrong 5-9/tic.
5 + 6 + 5-9 = 16-20/tic without even looking at sublimation or convert depending on your sub.
You think things are going to get hard when they drop abyssea when whms can literally afford to just spam cure 5 as much as they'd like?
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-27 10:05:20
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Well, if all the people in this thread here advocating that are willing to admit they sucked, so that's why abyssea seems so much easier, then I'll be ok with that.
Can't you just take that as a given, since it seems everyone sucks but you anyway.
[+]
Asura.Nalien
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 71
By Asura.Nalien 2011-02-27 10:05:43
If everyone stays within their 1-1,5k HP range, I would assume so.
Bahamut.Dasva
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 10:06:06
We were given more mp because SE understood that we would be needing more. It's just abyssea gives rediculous amounts extra.
If we had what we had before fighting NMs that are as hard at 90 as the ones before were at 75 it just wouldn't cut it.
Plus not everyone can have a whm with full refresh gear a brd with full +ballad gear and a rdm with +refresh gear. Assuming so is kinda silly. Realistically that whm is going to have 10ish assuming everyone keeps up on the refreshes
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:06:12
Odin.Zicdeh said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Well, if all the people in this thread here advocating that are willing to admit they sucked, so that's why abyssea seems so much easier, then I'll be ok with that.
Can't you just take that as a given, since it seems everyone sucks but you anyway. I know plenty of people who don't suck, lol.
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 10:08:12
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: It's not really even abyssea specifically that makes things "easy", it's the sheer amount of MP you have access to in comparison. Let's say we exit abyssea. Whm can get what? 5/tic refresh (2 body, 1 hands/feet, 1 weapon, 1 head) base, add a rdm, refresh II 6/tic, ballad III and II for well idk how +ballad works but I'd assume an extra 1/tic so w/ +2 ballad gear (no relic) 2+2 = 4, 3+2 = 5, so in case I'm wrong 5-9/tic.
5 + 6 + 5-9 = 16-20/tic without even looking at sublimation or convert depending on your sub.
You think things are going to get hard when they drop abyssea when whms can literally afford to just spam cure 5 as much as they'd like?
Before abyssea ppl didn't have that much refresh. Not every DD could easily tank most of the ***. Usually you would have 3 from rdm, 3 from brd, 1 from body. That's 7. That's is not enough to just spam as much as you want and you would easily pull hate off any DD. DDs couldn't just face tank those NMs.
Bismarck.Nalien
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 114
By Bismarck.Nalien 2011-02-27 10:08:49
You don't seem to understand the terms easier and harder.
Let's take a look at how I low manned pre- and post-Abyssea.
pre:
While incredibly easy if you were capable of utilizing your brain, I did have to pay some attention and hold out if I felt like taking a piss in the middle of a fight.
post:
I just *** go afk while auto-engaged on SAM NIN or any other job available and come back with a pool full of drops.
The game was harder before Abyssea, it was not hard.
Huge difference.
[+]
Bismarck.Nalien
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Bismarck.Nalien 2011-02-27 10:10:52
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: It's not really even abyssea specifically that makes things "easy", it's the sheer amount of MP you have access to in comparison. Let's say we exit abyssea. Whm can get what? 5/tic refresh (2 body, 1 hands/feet, 1 weapon, 1 head) base, add a rdm, refresh II 6/tic, ballad III and II for well idk how +ballad works but I'd assume an extra 1/tic so w/ +2 ballad gear (no relic) 2+2 = 4, 3+2 = 5, so in case I'm wrong 5-9/tic.
5 + 6 + 5-9 = 16-20/tic without even looking at sublimation or convert depending on your sub.
You think things are going to get hard when they drop abyssea when whms can literally afford to just spam cure 5 as much as they'd like?
Before abyssea ppl didn't have that much refresh. Not every DD could easily tank most of the ***. Usually you would have 3 from rdm, 3 from brd, 1 from body. That's 7. That's is not enough to just spam as much as you want and you would easily pull hate off any DD. DDs couldn't just face tank those NMs.
They could if they did not suck, actually.
Although MP could turn into an issue, or a DD potentially being one-shotted.
By Serj 2011-02-27 10:11:01
Shiva.Flionheart said: The only problem I have with Abyssea is the fact that it makes the game feel small and cramped.
It would be nice if SE made Sky, Sea, Salvage and Einherjar equally relevant to Abyssea, or a new event equally relevant.
It would make it feel like the game isn't taking place in 6 zones only.
Take away the *** time constraints and I'd be all for it.
Einherjar once a day or a few times a day. Sky nms at 15 min repops. Salvage is decent now I suppose. Never had any issues with sea aside from the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE low drop rates.
I love out of abyssea content now since you can do it casually with a few friends, but they still need to make it less of a time sink.
Put *** ground hnms at a 1-3 hour repop (4-6? something) and I'll be *** thrilled.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:11:18
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: It's not really even abyssea specifically that makes things "easy", it's the sheer amount of MP you have access to in comparison. Let's say we exit abyssea. Whm can get what? 5/tic refresh (2 body, 1 hands/feet, 1 weapon, 1 head) base, add a rdm, refresh II 6/tic, ballad III and II for well idk how +ballad works but I'd assume an extra 1/tic so w/ +2 ballad gear (no relic) 2+2 = 4, 3+2 = 5, so in case I'm wrong 5-9/tic.
5 + 6 + 5-9 = 16-20/tic without even looking at sublimation or convert depending on your sub.
You think things are going to get hard when they drop abyssea when whms can literally afford to just spam cure 5 as much as they'd like?
Before abyssea ppl didn't have that much refresh. Not every DD could easily tank most of the ***. Usually you would have 3 from rdm, 3 from brd, 1 from body. That's 7. That's is not enough to just spam as much as you want and you would easily pull hate off any DD. DDs couldn't just face tank those NMs.
And again, the amount of mp we have access to isn't abyssea specific, it was just plain updated with the game. Take abyssea away and we still have bottomless pits of mp.
Hence my argument of abyssea not being the specific thing to make the game "easy" but the fact that we now have access to all this mp. Take abyssea away, the MP is still going to be here.
By Serj 2011-02-27 10:12:19
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Before abyssea ppl didn't have that much refresh. Not every DD could easily tank most of the ***.
What DD couldn't tank most everything? Rng? lol.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:12:20
Bismarck.Nalien said: You don't seem to understand the terms easier and harder.
Let's take a look at how I low manned pre- and post-Abyssea.
pre:
While incredibly easy if you were capable of utilizing your brain, I did have to pay some attention and hold out if I felt like taking a piss in the middle of a fight.
post:
I just *** go afk while auto-engaged on SAM NIN or any other job available and come back with a pool full of drops.
The game was harder before Abyssea, it was not hard.
Huge difference. I'm sure a second grade test is harder than a first grade test, but who gives a ***, they're both easy.
I know cap is going up to 99 and there are no more abyssea expansions, so basically i been doing some thinking and it seems like abyssea is going to end soon and just turn into an event like limbus or dynamis after 90-99 expansion comes out. And all those empreyan weapons that were done are now going to be crap outside;;
What are your thoughts?
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