Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
hur dur durrrrrr
Then why are you in a forum. If your not going to hear the other side then just open a blog and talk to yourself.
Government Drops Defense Of Anti-gay-marriage Law
Government drops defense of anti-gay-marriage law
Then why are you in a forum. If your not going to hear the other side then just open a blog and talk to yourself.
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Im not an Atheist, Im a non-religious Catholic. I make fun of religious people al the time due to their sheeple-minded attitudes and their beliefs that if they leave their life in the hands of an imaginary being, they'll be able to inherit treasure or some ***like that.
is it the same as a non-practicing jew?
i've always been curious.
my take on it is that you still associate yourself with the belief but don't attend?
yes?
it's still a bit of a false-answer because it's not really fully expressing what you do believe, unless you'd rather just let your words illustrate your beliefs in a not so direct fashion. :P
Cerberus.Starr said:
Yes, I consider myself a REAL Christian (to use his own terms against him) even though I fornicate, lie, etc, I do not think any of these things are any worse than being a homosexual. The point I'm making is I don't do them in Church or in the name of God, or as a pledge to God. I don't think I can make this any clearer than that, there is nothing discriminative with what I am saying about homosexuals not being allowed to be married in Church.
If you don't fornicate in the name of God or as a pledge to God, why do you think a Christian homosexual couple would?
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Marriage, in a Christian church, done by a Christian priest/pastor/vicar should be solely for those who are Christians as it is not only a pledge to each other but a pledge to God.
I honesty find it interesting that this is your point of contention, not the whole 'gay sex is wrong' thing.
It raises an interesting loop-hole which I'm not sure you've considered:
Are you OK with a gay Christian couple getting married in a church?
So Weasel was right: you do think gay people can't be Christians, at least not REAL Christians, because being gay is inherently un-Christian?
One final question: why should your beliefs about who should or shouldn't be allowed to be married in a church carry any weight with society? In other words, why is this an issue that should be decided by majority vote and not, say, the Supreme Court?
Keep in mind that there are churches run by gays and lesbians who want the right to marry same-sex couples -- because whether you regard them as Christian or not, they regard themselves as Christian. Let me be clear about my question: I'm not asking why you should have a say in whether or not churches, such as the one you attend, should be forced to marry gay couples against their will (I'm not suggesting any forcing be done at all), I'm asking why you should have a say in whether or not these other churches, which you do not attend, should be allowed to marry the same-sex couples which they wish to marry.
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
I think heterosexual fornication is wrong from a religious view point. Now try and reword that into something that makes me look discriminative.
I think you're confused. I'm not Weasel. Look at the names beside the people commenting to you.
Now will you answer my questions?
They are not MY religious beliefs but those of anyone who truly loves and appreciates God and follows his scriptures that he told the prophets.
Wombat said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
Nearly every major historical event in the Biblical timeline from the life of David (in about 1050 B.C.E.) until the end of the New Testament era (about 95 C.E.), has either outside support (from other cultures) or archaeological backing.
:P
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Yes, I consider myself a REAL Christian (to use his own terms against him) even though I fornicate, lie, etc, I do not think any of these things are any worse than being a homosexual. The point I'm making is I don't do them in Church or in the name of God, or as a pledge to God. I don't think I can make this any clearer than that, there is nothing discriminative with what I am saying about homosexuals not being allowed to be married in Church.
If you don't fornicate in the name of God or as a pledge to God, why do you think a Christian homosexual couple would?
Cerberus.Starr said:
They are not MY religious beliefs but those of anyone who truly loves and appreciates God and follows his scriptures that he told the prophets.
Okay, that's great. So why should the beliefs of anyone who truly loves and appreciates God and follows his scriptures that he told the prophets dictate the religious lives of others?
[+]
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Yes, I consider myself a REAL Christian (to use his own terms against him) even though I fornicate, lie, etc, I do not think any of these things are any worse than being a homosexual. The point I'm making is I don't do them in Church or in the name of God, or as a pledge to God. I don't think I can make this any clearer than that, there is nothing discriminative with what I am saying about homosexuals not being allowed to be married in Church.
If you don't fornicate in the name of God or as a pledge to God, why do you think a Christian homosexual couple would?
pretty much to dumb it down you are saying that all sin is bad so the fact that it's homosexual should be irrelevant and a same sex marriage would be tantamount to having gay sex on the altar.
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Wombat said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
Nearly every major historical event in the Biblical timeline from the life of David (in about 1050 B.C.E.) until the end of the New Testament era (about 95 C.E.), has either outside support (from other cultures) or archaeological backing.
:P
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Yes, I consider myself a REAL Christian (to use his own terms against him) even though I fornicate, lie, etc, I do not think any of these things are any worse than being a homosexual. The point I'm making is I don't do them in Church or in the name of God, or as a pledge to God. I don't think I can make this any clearer than that, there is nothing discriminative with what I am saying about homosexuals not being allowed to be married in Church.
If you don't fornicate in the name of God or as a pledge to God, why do you think a Christian homosexual couple would?
So you don't think homosexual couples fornicate in the name of God or as a pledge to God? Then how is this the difference between you and them? If it's not, what's your basis for denying them the right to get married in a church of their own?
[+]
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
Wombat said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
Nearly every major historical event in the Biblical timeline from the life of David (in about 1050 B.C.E.) until the end of the New Testament era (about 95 C.E.), has either outside support (from other cultures) or archaeological backing.
Cerberus.Starr said:
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
But you are. You're addressing your opinion to the entire gay community. You're judging them as sinning and telling them that they should not be allowed to get married in a church.
I'm perfectly calm, you're the one who seems to be flipping out a little here. I'm asking you to justify your position: why should your beliefs about scripture have any bearing at all on other people's lives?
Or do you think they should be allowed to get married in churches despite the fact that you personally think it's wrong?
[+]
Cerberus.Starr said:
I don't do them in Church or in the name of God, or as a pledge to God.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
But you are. You're addressing your opinion to the entire gay community. You're judging them as sinning and telling them that they should not be allowed to get married in a church.
I'm perfectly calm, you're the one who seems to be flipping out a little here. I'm asking you to justify your position: why should your beliefs about scripture have any bearing at all on other people's lives?
Or do you think they should be allowed to get married in churches despite the fact that you personally think it's wrong?
He'll be very clear that he can't though.
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Caitsith.Sai said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Caitsith.Sai said:
Calling people extremists simply because they believe differntly than you shows that you are more interested in getting your way than finding a solution that can work for both sides. By using inflamatory and inaccurate language you are just a mirror image of the people you argue against.
Well, I personally am more interested in getting my way than finding a solution that can work for both sides. I frankly don't care if the opponents of gay marriage get all worked up
This attitude though is why we still fight over the same things instead of progressing. If we can compromise on this issue than we can also find solutions to budget problems and welfare problems and education problems and so forth. We simply cannot afford the my way or the highway approach when we live in a country that has a 50/50 split on so many important issues. There is a reason we are stuck in neutral while other countries move forward.
We have to be able to work together even if that means giving concessions that we dont really want to give.
We sure can afford the 'my way or the highway approach': it's called the court system. It's historically been very useful at ending oppression by the majority (like we see here), where 'compromise' is really just code for: "We don't want to give up our unfair privileges."
The reason we're still fighting over this instead of progressing forward is because a bunch of incredibly rich Republicans funded a massive, very successful campaign to scare the public into thinking that gay marriage would undermine The American FamilyTM and corrupt our schools, and so when gay marriage was enacted in many states (progress) we had a massive voter backlash (regress.) Soon enough, though, it won't matter anymore, because enough people in government are realizing that this issue isn't something that should be determined by majority vote anyways: it's an issue of civil liberties within the scope of the Constitution, and should be addressed by the courts.
A public that refuses to work together and blames everything on dem/repub (like there is actually a difference) is so much easier to control don't you think?
the only time a gay man sins is when he goes ***-to-mouth...
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Wombat said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
Nearly every major historical event in the Biblical timeline from the life of David (in about 1050 B.C.E.) until the end of the New Testament era (about 95 C.E.), has either outside support (from other cultures) or archaeological backing.
:P
Caitsith.Sai said:
A public that refuses to work together and blames everything on dem/repub (like there is actually a difference) is so much easier to control don't you think?
What does control have to do with it? I thought we were talking about people's civil liberties.
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
But you are. You're addressing your opinion to the entire gay community. You're judging them as sinning and telling them that they should not be allowed to get married in a church.
I'm perfectly calm, you're the one who seems to be flipping out a little here. I'm asking you to justify your position: why should your beliefs about scripture have any bearing at all on other people's lives?
Or do you think they should be allowed to get married in churches despite the fact that you personally think it's wrong?
I have never been calmer. They are not "my beliefs", please take all scriptures related to homosexuality and try and interpret them to make them sound like God does not mind it.
Stop shooting the messenger, seriously. So you're mad at religion and don't wanna follow God, so what, don't aim all your misconceptions and disagreements at me, I posted my opinion on the topic at hand, aimed at noone, which is exactly what discussion forums are for. I am not here to answer your every question.
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Caitsith.Sai said:
A public that refuses to work together and blames everything on dem/repub (like there is actually a difference) is so much easier to control don't you think?
What does control have to do with it? I thought we were talking about people's civil liberties.
Cerberus.Starr said:
Wombat said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Put simply: why should your religious beliefs dictate the religious lives of others?
Nearly every major historical event in the Biblical timeline from the life of David (in about 1050 B.C.E.) until the end of the New Testament era (about 95 C.E.), has either outside support (from other cultures) or archaeological backing.
The ones listed above are just the tip of the iceberg. If you get into finds that are "disputed" there are even more.
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
But you are. You're addressing your opinion to the entire gay community. You're judging them as sinning and telling them that they should not be allowed to get married in a church.
I'm perfectly calm, you're the one who seems to be flipping out a little here. I'm asking you to justify your position: why should your beliefs about scripture have any bearing at all on other people's lives?
Or do you think they should be allowed to get married in churches despite the fact that you personally think it's wrong?
I have never been calmer. They are not "my beliefs", please take all scriptures related to homosexuality and try and interpret them to make them sound like God does not mind it.
Stop shooting the messenger, seriously. So you're mad at religion and don't wanna follow God, so what, don't aim all your misconceptions and disagreements at me, I posted my opinion on the topic at hand, aimed at noone, which is exactly what discussion forums are for. I am not here to answer your every question.
Oh. Ok. I misunderstood. I thought these were your beliefs, not God's. You're just the messenger.
That makes my question the easiest of all: why should God's word have any say at all over our laws?
[+]
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Caitsith.Sai said:
A public that refuses to work together and blames everything on dem/repub (like there is actually a difference) is so much easier to control don't you think?
What does control have to do with it? I thought we were talking about people's civil liberties.
Eh, that's probably true, but it doesn't mean that we need to compromise, here. Sometimes one side of a debate is simply wrong.
so what, I can find a piece of broken pottery in my back yard right now and claim its from the BC years when people made ***out of bat ***or something.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Cerberus.Starr said:
I am not dictating anyone, if I was here telling a homosexual personally that they should not do it then you might have a point. I merely posted my opinion on the topic at hand, addressed at noone. I do not judge anyone or tell them what to do, from my opinion, if they are religious then I will simply say "The scriptures say this: xxx". You're arguing with yourself here, please calm down.
But you are. You're addressing your opinion to the entire gay community. You're judging them as sinning and telling them that they should not be allowed to get married in a church.
I'm perfectly calm, you're the one who seems to be flipping out a little here. I'm asking you to justify your position: why should your beliefs about scripture have any bearing at all on other people's lives?
Or do you think they should be allowed to get married in churches despite the fact that you personally think it's wrong?
I have never been calmer. They are not "my beliefs", please take all scriptures related to homosexuality and try and interpret them to make them sound like God does not mind it.
Stop shooting the messenger, seriously. So you're mad at religion and don't wanna follow God, so what, don't aim all your misconceptions and disagreements at me, I posted my opinion on the topic at hand, aimed at noone, which is exactly what discussion forums are for. I am not here to answer your every question.
Oh. Ok. I misunderstood. I thought these were your beliefs, not God's. You're just the messenger.
That makes my question the easiest of all: why should God's word have any say at all over our laws?
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Quetzalcoatl.Kanjirou said:
Caitsith.Sai said:
A public that refuses to work together and blames everything on dem/repub (like there is actually a difference) is so much easier to control don't you think?
What does control have to do with it? I thought we were talking about people's civil liberties.
Eh, that's probably true, but it doesn't mean that we need to compromise, here. Sometimes one side of a debate is simply wrong.
Now that priests are *** altar boys to quench their obvious human urge for sex, the Vatican will change the rules yet again to allow this.
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
so what, I can find a piece of broken pottery in my back yard right now and claim its from the BC years when people made ***out of bat ***or something.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
Cerberus.Starr said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
so what, I can find a piece of broken pottery in my back yard right now and claim its from the BC years when people made ***out of bat ***or something.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
If it was found by human hands, and no one understands it, those hands will twist the truth to fit their needs. Therefore, it will be flawed, just like the bible.
But seriously, why can't the Vatican change the rules (since theyre so good at it) to allow gays to marry since its obvious gays aren't going anywhere?
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