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Is there a empryean weapon that outshines others
Caitsith.Ejin
Server: Caitsith
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Posts: 39
By Caitsith.Ejin 2011-02-09 15:08:14
Not counting retaliation for war or counter for mnk; Ukon war dropping hasso still beats a 90 vereth mnk.
Assuming march x2 and haste. War not using hasso.
MNK DPS: 574.108
WAR DPS: 598.472
edit: These numbers are probably not precise, as they don't count ODD favoring Ukon, mnk is /nin(but still getting berserk bonus), and restraint bonus for war WS. My only point was that when war drops hasso, it doesn't suddenly nosedive below mnk.
By Serj 2011-02-09 15:10:18
Caitsith.Ejin said: Not counting retaliation for war or counter for mnk; Ukon war dropping hasso still beats a 90 vereth mnk.
Assuming march x2 and haste. War not using hasso.
MNK DPS: 574.108
WAR DPS: 598.472
True, but taking counter and retaliation into consideration, if you're using seigan, you're losing retaliations and a mnk is pulling ahead, on top of losing hasso. It's just HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
By Ashaaman 2011-02-09 15:11:38
Cerberus.Tikal said: What's the point of a WAR not using it? If you're not using a defensive capability WAR is capable of using when you get into a shitty situation, you need to quit WAR now.
Once you've played a fully hasted, retaliation up, hasso up, etc 5-hit Ukon WAR... You want deleted your seigan/TE macros.
Anyone else agree? Lol
Caitsith.Ejin
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By Caitsith.Ejin 2011-02-09 15:14:55
Ashaaman said: Cerberus.Tikal said: What's the point of a WAR not using it? If you're not using a defensive capability WAR is capable of using when you get into a shitty situation, you need to quit WAR now.
Once you've played a fully hasted, retaliation up, hasso up, etc 5-hit Ukon WAR... You want deleted your seigan/TE macros.
Anyone else agree? Lol
This is basically the point.
Everything just dies so fast that 1 whm CAN keep up, because the fight lasts at MOST 1-3min. The best defense is a good offense.
By Ashaaman 2011-02-09 15:16:44
Caitsith.Ejin said: Ashaaman said: Cerberus.Tikal said: What's the point of a WAR not using it? If you're not using a defensive capability WAR is capable of using when you get into a shitty situation, you need to quit WAR now.
Once you've played a fully hasted, retaliation up, hasso up, etc 5-hit Ukon WAR... You want deleted your seigan/TE macros.
Anyone else agree? Lol
This is basically the point.
Everything just dies so fast that 1 whm CAN keep up, because the fight lasts at MOST 1-3min. The best defense is a good offense.
Yeah, the only thing I'd be worried about would be mobs that have hard hitting aoes. If you don't get the appropriate -dt set on, the whm can easily fall behind because of the amount of tp the mob is getting from constant swings and hitting the wars.
Caitsith.Konda
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By Caitsith.Konda 2011-02-09 16:31:12
Sylph.Ghaleon said:
also, war can get 1shotted where as mnk has much higher hp to save them from being so
and ninja has Migawari to save them from being so.
war gets wrecked way too quickly to be resourceful on higher tier nms in heroes areas.
scars/vision areas on the other hand, i can see why you wouldn't have trouble on any nm with just war+whm; outside of the 1shot factor.
1) I cant recall WAR getting 1shotted EVER in abyssea zones. If you're getting 1 shotted you're either using the wrong atmas, don't have any abyssite of merit or your mages just suck, and you didnt get 1 shotted, you were beat down from a number TP moves/spells/melee hits.
2)Migawari is such a huge waste of time casting, it hurts your DD significantly, hurts your wallet (not that gil is an issue these days) and hurts hate holding capabilities while tanking. the ONLY time I've ever been 1shot on NIN was when I didnt turn fast enough from Chariot in alteppa and multi attacks at high speed occurred when it had spikes up.
3) maybe if you just stand there in tp gear while a smn and rdm try and keep you alive with cure 4. War can hit 49% PDT or something HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE these days, so it's anything but "squishy"
4) you have 1shot issues in scars/visions areas? what are you? a lv60 taru smn?
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Fenrir.Krazyrs
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2011-02-09 16:36:57
Caitsith.Konda said: Sylph.Ghaleon said:
also, war can get 1shotted where as mnk has much higher hp to save them from being so
and ninja has Migawari to save them from being so.
war gets wrecked way too quickly to be resourceful on higher tier nms in heroes areas.
scars/vision areas on the other hand, i can see why you wouldn't have trouble on any nm with just war+whm; outside of the 1shot factor.
1) I cant recall WAR getting 1shotted EVER in abyssea zones. If you're getting 1 shotted you're either using the wrong atmas, don't have any abyssite of merit or your mages just suck, and you didnt get 1 shotted, you were beat down from a number TP moves/spells/melee hits.
2)Migawari is such a huge waste of time casting, it hurts your DD significantly, hurts your wallet (not that gil is an issue these days) and hurts hate holding capabilities while tanking. the ONLY time I've ever been 1shot on NIN was when I didnt turn fast enough from Chariot in alteppa and multi attacks at high speed occurred when it had spikes up.
3) maybe if you just stand there in tp gear while a smn and rdm try and keep you alive with cure 4. War can hit 49% PDT or something HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE these days, so it's anything but "squishy"
4) you have 1shot issues in scars/visions areas? what are you? a lv60 taru smn? migawari works wonders on indrik
indrik 1 shots my mnk
mnk has more hp then war
so indrik can 1 shot my war
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By Sylph.Binckry 2011-02-09 16:54:23
Hiiii Timmy! Hiii Ghal! :o
By sefalon 2011-02-11 10:08:22
Mind if I bring this thread back to topic lol. So its established monk or war is the top 2 emp weapons question is of those two what do you think is a faster one to obtain? I have 2 characters and have 1-2 ppl that help me. So I will have to low man it. I would also like to see some numbers on the cor emp weapon since my second. Character. Has 20 gems already does not have drk or sam lvld
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-11 10:12:05
Mnk's is slightly faster, I wouldn't imagine so by much. All of Tahrongi emps suck ***
Bahamut.Xslayrx
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By Bahamut.Xslayrx 2011-02-11 10:24:58
Mnk is faster and has easier NMs imo. Can't really go wrong either way both are amazing weapons, and both suck *** to get. :P
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By sefalon 2011-02-11 10:52:39
I been having a hard time deciding since I have 2 characters my main has masamune and my 2nd has whm and mnk. I could get uko on my main but I already have gk so seems pointless. On my main I have rdm not whm and 90 percent of the time I play solo/duo so I am trying to find best combo without having to lvl more jobs on either characters. I do feel that having 2 characters with emp weapons would be better than. 1 char with 2. That is also why I was thinking of doing cor emp since I already have 20 gems. If rdm gets cure v my troubles are over.
By Coldone 2011-02-14 10:34:15
I disagree with said Kannagi being weak outside of abyssea, i see quite frequent 2k+ Blade: Hi s outside abyssea with this highest of 3k.. and don't discount the ODD effect, as nin still has the fastest attack speed for high dot.
I'm not a big number cruncher, or whatever.. but its still a good weapon outside.
Ragnarok.Kingx
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By Ragnarok.Kingx 2011-02-14 11:00:19
Twashtar i vote for it. You want solo something still get th o try solo something usefull on dnc? Twashtar will give you an help.Ok for the big dmg of kannagi/masa/ukko. but if i planning to have everywhere an empe(1of the best dmg for Dnc/thf)and th togheter il vote for it :) No sense make the fake dagger, Becouse Twashtar is mainly strong for Aftermath > Rundra.
Quetzalcoatl.Dova
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dova 2011-02-14 11:16:46
Phoenix.Kirana said:
Rudra's will average at around 1k-1.5k in abys unstacked, whereas evis can easily average 2k-3k unstacked. On an Assassin's charge Berserk Warcry rcb unstacked rudra's I once hit 3.3k, but evis would have done more for sure.
Random question but if you AC can double attack take priority over it? I'm under the assupmtion double trumps triple trumps quad. Or is that wrong all together.
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2011-02-14 12:43:04
Quetzalcoatl.Dova said: Phoenix.Kirana said:
Rudra's will average at around 1k-1.5k in abys unstacked, whereas evis can easily average 2k-3k unstacked. On an Assassin's charge Berserk Warcry rcb unstacked rudra's I once hit 3.3k, but evis would have done more for sure.
Random question but if you AC can double attack take priority over it? I'm under the assupmtion double trumps triple trumps quad. Or is that wrong all together. no, it's QA then TA then DA, DA will never take priority over TA.
Ragnarok.Kingx said: Twashtar i vote for it. You want solo something still get th o try solo something usefull on dnc? Twashtar will give you an help.Ok for the big dmg of kannagi/masa/ukko. but if i planning to have everywhere an empe(1of the best dmg for Dnc/thf)and th togheter il vote for it :) No sense make the fake dagger, Becouse Twashtar is mainly strong for Aftermath > Rundra. fake dagger says hi:
also apparently twashtar aftermath stacks with dnc's af3+2 set
Quetzalcoatl.Dova
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dova 2011-02-14 15:23:42
Asura.Yunalaysca said: Quetzalcoatl.Dova said: Phoenix.Kirana said:
Rudra's will average at around 1k-1.5k in abys unstacked, whereas evis can easily average 2k-3k unstacked. On an Assassin's charge Berserk Warcry rcb unstacked rudra's I once hit 3.3k, but evis would have done more for sure.
Random question but if you AC can double attack take priority over it? I'm under the assupmtion double trumps triple trumps quad. Or is that wrong all together. no, it's QA then TA then DA, DA will never take priority over TA.
Ah thnx :)
Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-02-14 15:32:55
Aftermath stacks with thf set bonus as well. I once had a crit for 2k w/o SA
also wow, are those surveyors weak to piercing? the best rudra's I've done so far was about 6.2k
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-02-14 15:34:40
I already normally get 1k Sneak Attacks from time to time with gear swaps... I'd like to see a 3k dmg SA sometime, add onto that the proc from Rudra's and I have no idea how high that spike would be.
Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-02-14 15:41:27
Cerberus.Tikal said: I already normally get 1k Sneak Attacks from time to time with gear swaps... I'd like to see a 3k dmg SA sometime, add onto that the proc from Rudra's and I have no idea how high that spike would be.
Assuming you have Twastar, you should be using SA on your WS, not unstacked.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-02-14 15:43:03
Coldone said: I disagree with said Kannagi being weak outside of abyssea, i see quite frequent 2k+ Blade: Hi s outside abyssea with this highest of 3k.. and don't discount the ODD effect, as nin still has the fastest attack speed for high dot.
I'm not a big number cruncher, or whatever.. but its still a good weapon outside. Nobody said it was weak, just weak er. Hi clearly loses more by leaving Abyssea than Smite, Ukko's, or CDC does.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-02-14 15:43:47
I don't have Twashtar, and I meant 1k Sneak Attacks without WS, ODD of Twashtar, or AF3+2 proc.
Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-02-14 15:45:27
Cerberus.Tikal said: I don't have Twashtar, and I meant 1k Sneak Attacks without WS, ODD of Twashtar, or AF3+2 proc.
Which is why I said what I said. if you had twash, it would be silly to waste SA on anything but a WS.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-02-14 15:46:33
It'd still be interesting to see just how high it could spike.
Valefor.Kermit
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By Valefor.Kermit 2011-02-14 15:59:59
Ah the outside abyssea discussions, how abyssea has plauged the view of the game.
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Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2011-02-14 16:09:16
Can I epeen too?
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l7/Jayjs20/ffxi_20110210_203505.png
And I recall a screenshot of a 5k+ SA on bats, and the number's not too difficult to hit.
5,000 / 12.5 = 4k (if you remove piercing weak)
4,000 / 3 = 1,333 (if you remove triple damage proc set)
1,333 isn't all that extraordinary for SA on a normal mob. My average tends to me 1100-1200. The average THF can probably do it if you use RR, SS and omnipotent and some patience.
Carbuncle.Soneldar
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By Carbuncle.Soneldar 2011-02-14 16:12:11
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: 1 fist onry
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of updates ago, didn't they fix OAX with respect to offhand for H2H? Could have sworn I read that somewhere.
If such is the case, do we need to slap around SE again to get this adjusted for ODD too?
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-14 16:13:15
That's how it's always been. Spharai(triple dmg) and Glanzfaust as well only proc on 1 fist.
Carbuncle.Soneldar
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By Carbuncle.Soneldar 2011-02-14 16:17:19
Ahh, Hand to Hand. The *** child of SE's weapon coding. Thanks.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-14 16:19:05
Well I think it's cause it's closer to DW than it is 2handed.
When you main Kannagi for example, you don't get ODD in the offhand, so they're keeping it to a singular term for h2h as well. 2hand, ofc is singular by default since it's the only one there. That being said, I think they're all programmed on a singular term.
After killing carabosse and brias solo/duo I realized that it will probably be fairly easy to obtain a emp weapon. I am making a masamune for sure but my question is there a emp weapon that is far supperior to others. I was thinking of nin 1 but I also would like a almace for my blue. I wanted to make a thwashtar but it takes to many KI compared to some others and have not heard anyone say how awesome it was.
I realize im all over the place a common problem when you have too many high lvl jobs lol.
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