Kamome Vs 2-4 Multi-hit Katana

Also, i have brutal and suppa....no need for me to ever get nin ear right?

I'm strongly considering a double attack+10 katana for outside abyssea. I want to force more hits onto the mainhand during aftermath and critrate is Q.Qish when you don't have atmas.

WS gorget/belt would probably win, though, i'm no mathologist. Anguinus would be worth looking into, too.
Also, people greatly overrate the amount of attack you have. NIN shouldn't be using VV, so, even with red curry/stalwart's/berserk, you're not attack capped on anything worth a damn.
That being said, Atheling > Iga.
inb4 "wait, you don't have a second brd or a cor doing xi rolls? suck less ™"

I didn't, but we could. It's still more TP moves over time.
No, they don't. Given that NIN's sub of choice is /WAR, this really hurts OAX weapons.
Yes.
The thing about that superior TP gain is that you're sacrificing DoT in the process, and NIN has a significant DoT component. Low damage and high delay means weak hits and slow TP gain, along with fewer hits from your stronger mainhand weapon. In the case of Kannagi, this also means less opportunities for ODD aftermath to proc since it's only active on the mainhand weapon.

Atheling Mantle will nearly always win for TP and WS, and Iga neck is only good for TP (gorget for WS, or potentially Hope Torque for Hi).

Keep in mind that you're increasing your total delay by 10% over a Kannagi/Sekka setup, whereas DA+10% is less than 10% more hits over time due to preexisting DA gear/traits. You're then reducing your rate of TP gain further due to high delay weapons (TP gain over time increases in a non-linear manner as you reduce delay/hand below 180 including DW traits). I strongly recommend using either a Sekka +2 or Oirandori for outside Abyssea.

Get both, Kamome works hugely inside abyssea, for situations outside abyssea 2-4 works better since atma's make Kamome better them 2-4 hits, also if your nin/dnc alot 2-4 is an execptional offhand weapon too, especialy when soloing, you cant just focus on 1 thing for all situations, having multiple choices makes you alot more efficient in all situations.

There's a better choice than OA2-4 for pretty much any situation.

Would you really notice the difference in delay though? The damage difference with kamome is so noticeable because it's a huge boost to begin with and your crit rate is so high in abyssea. With delay it's different since other things like stopping to cast and fight length in general. Just how much time would have to pass in order to see a significant difference between kamome and enchu? assume you have ***' awesome gear, haste and/or haste samba.

Did you even read what I posted? It was a comparison to Sekka +2, which is going to outperform Kamome outside Abyssea. And it's not about what loleyeballing can see, it's about the mathematical difference between the two builds. Every round will occur 10% faster with Kannagi/Sekka than with Kannagi/Enchu +2. The additional hits/round will not compensate for this. You said you wanted to force more hits onto the mainhand and in practice that is not going to happen with a DA katana.

I don't understand how it doesn't though T~T

Simulate... let's say 10000 units of delay. Ignore haste and DW, they're a constant multiplier so they'll affect both equally here.

Kannagi/Sekka has a total 411 delay, Kannagi/Enchu has 452 delay. Let's only assume Brutal Earring for DA.

10000/411=24.3309002 rounds
10000/452=22.1238938 rounds

Add Brutal Earring and Enchu DA.

24.3309002*1.05=25.5474452 hits/hand in this timeframe, so that many hits for Kannagi
22.1238938*1.15=25.4424779

A small advantage for /Sekka, but an advantage nonetheless. Adding more DA gives /Sekka a further advantage. For instance, add Atheling Mantle, Twilight Belt, and /WAR:

24.3309002*1.2=29.1970802
22.1238938*1.3=28.7610619

See how the difference has increased?

Now, there's a further consideration:



This graph depicts speed of TP gain per unit time for various delays. Notice how TP gain begins to increase dramatically below 180 delay/hand. Now, DW is factored into TP gain, and NIN obviously has a lot of DW. Not only is the /Sekka setup swinging faster, it's going to gain TP at an increased rate as well. Factor in the fact that some of DW Enchu's TP gain will be overflow (exceed 100 TP within a given attack round) and the gap in WS frequency increases again.

Lol yeah, sorry for the late answer.

Brutal >> Epona's ring, its just that good.

Hmm, is this a debate between ppl that are too lazy to finish the OA 2-4 times katana (can't tell enough about how i love mine) and ppl that would be too pissed off to admit they spent all that time only to be eclipsed by kamome? I guess it's possible that kamome is better. Just know that it's gonna be against OA 2-5 times + a lil higher base dmg at 99. Still wouldn't be conviced? That's ok, hope you have fun waiting on your tp for your next ws.

The answer will be neither OA2-X nor Kamome at 99, so who cares about that?

Yea, would make perfect sense. I'm still looking forward to the 99 version of the OA2-X tho, fun times to me for the least. Really enjoy swinging often basically.

I enjoy eyeballing DPS.

Oh wow. thanks for taking the time to type all that out I appreciate it. I can also see what you were talking about earlier more clearly. My only problem is this 10000 units of delay you used. That's an awful long time to be fighting something without pausing for whatever reason. Yeah I know ideal circumstances and whatnot but why not use TP->WS phases?. Do you really find yourself swinging nonstop for several minutes at a time? I tend to WS at the beginning of fights to get aftermath going.

If you mathed out tp->ws phases and just looked at the double attack occurrences mainhand during aftermath wouldn't additional double attack win over delay? Assuming you only do 1-3 tp->ws phases per fight.

Because I don't have enough info to do so. If I did model that, however, /Enchu would lose some ground in WS frequency as I noted. JA delay would change things a bit but I can't quantify that without more detailed info.

10000 delay was honestly just an arbitrary choice since (210+242)/(210+201) apparently wasn't an obvious difference in delay. The timeframe involved doesn't really impact the answer here, at least not in DA's favor... the shorter the timeframe is, the more frequently you're going to kill the mob midway through an attack around and lose some potential DA procs. You're also losing some of the advantage of DA Enchu's higher base damage for the same reason.

So yeah, the more detailed I get the worse it's going to get for DA Enchu.

hmmm. In my case it might just boil down to something besides damage output. I don't lowman powerful things very often and when I do fight something strong I have a ton of support.

Such as? DA Enchu is a damage weapon, not a utility weapon, so I'm curious what reasoning you'd have that wouldn't encourage the use of a different weapon.

Well if I tally up all my haste, DW, STP and support I'm looking at 20 hits to 100 tp with either combo and only a couple seconds difference between the two after a few tp phases. If I look at the extra double attacks in say 3 tp phases it's something pitiful like 3 and then finally the chance for those to do double damage and it boils down to like 1. To me that's hardly worth all the NMs I need to fight. I'll just take one of the old Sekkas I never use, like the target defense down or evasion+, and make it +2 after abyssea.

The DA10 Enchu +1 is a solid mainhand weapon for those not striving for Blade: Hi. But that's all it's good at.

Believe it, the Kamome will outperform the OA2-4 handily.