Arizona Congresswoman Shot At Public Event

Like I said, people want stricter/tighter gun control laws, because abhorrent antisocial behavior that takes innocent lives is unacceptable. Giving someone with psychological/emotional instability easy access to a means to mortally wound other citizens is a crime itself.

Now, you both bring up legitimate points about how you PERCEIVE stricter gun control laws MIGHT not decrease murders. But, you all, I assume, also both AGREE that the current climate in America, whereby people readily have the ability to go out and slay a bunch of people, basically just because they want to, IS UNACCEPTABLE. I think most Americans would concur. And therefore, SOMETHING MUST be done. Inaction would simply set further precedent that we're "ok" with events like today's shooting in Arizona to continue occurring ... again, and again, and again.

The trouble comes when you get the rednecks and paranoid folks with the "you can pry my guns from my cold dead hands" mantra. How do we get these people to realize that the status quo on gun use/availability is our country is INTOLERABLE and UNACCEPTABLE?

If you don't like my idea of requiring both initial and ongoing psychological and emotional health testing for gun owners, which seems logical to me, then what is YOUR idea to create beneficial change?

to be fair, it's very easy to kill people without a firearm, really easy

If that's the case, then why does almost every one of these tragedies, like the one in Arizona today, involve a gunman?

I concede that killing a human is quite possible without the use of a gun. But that isn't the point.

then what Is the point? you want to end tragic deaths, quite frankly getting rid of the tool isn't going to get rid of the people who commit those acts

1) Gun control laws won't change anything. You're silly if you think they will. If you made them harder to get people will just find an illegal way to obtain them. Drugs are illegal and they pour into our country everyday. What makes you think guns would be any harder for smugglers to bring in? Or that people who would break the law would go about another way to do it?

"Oh I'm going to kill someone but since guns are illegal I'll find another weapon"

Yeah right. If someone wants to kill people and guns are outlawed then they will find a black market to buy them from. The people that risk bringing drugs, for example, into our country know that the sentences for doing so are very steep. If that doesn't scare them out of doing so, I'm sure gun smuggling laws won't.

2) If you defend Glenn Beck, state the left has been advocating violence without wanting to provide proof (go for it, I'd love to hear it) or don't think the Tea Party is in anyway responsible for almost all the violent rhetoric in the last year: you're an idiot.

3) Pretending the Tea Party, the far-right and Fox have nothing to do with encouraging acts like this is not only absolving them of any responsibility, it is turning a blind eye to what they do because it benefits your beliefs.

For the record if you think Dr. Tiller was the first abortion provider killed by far-right loons, then you should read up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States

What a sad state of affairs ;/

Crimes against humanity are heinous. In this case the right to bear arms was abused. I am unconvinced that there are any good solutions to the ease of obtaining firearms by those who intend to do evil and the ease of which evil is perpetrated with the use of guns.

I will say this that your projection of government taking away the 2nd amendment is an inevitable end to rising gun related violence is highly unlikely. I don't think you understand just how hard it would be to change the constitution. "The United States Constitution is unusually difficult to amend. As spelled out in Article V, the Constitution can be amended in one of two ways. First, amendment can take place by a vote of two-thirds of both the House of Representatives and the Senate followed by a ratification of three-fourths of the various state legislatures (ratification by thirty-eight states would be required to ratify an amendment today). This first method of amendment is the only one used to date. Second, the Constitution might be amended by a Convention called for this purpose by two-thirds of the state legislatures, if the Convention's proposed amendments are later ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures."

3/4 of the state governments would have to accept this. Do you honestly think you would be able to convince 3/4 of all states to ever give up their right to bear arms?

But back to the issue. While I can't give any constructive answer to how to avoid gun violence, I do have a suggestion on how to help violence and therefor gun violence. Follow the golden rule. Simple, but that is the answer. But we have to be the change we wish to see in others. I agree with the sentiment stated earlier. Love a little more, read to your kids, kiss your spouse, stop fighting and make up, give a helping hand or a kind word. When I say we I mean me and if you do the same maybe it will spread. But love one another as you love yourself. Look after another's needs before your own. If we do this, that will be the end to violence in our life.

Whether you chose to believe Politics was directly involved in the Arizona tragedy is up to you I guess.

But I find it hard to believe this is coincidence.



After Sarah Palin posted this to her Facebook page in March 2009, someone kicked in or shot out a glass door and side window at Giffords' office in Tucson.
Afterwards, Giffords' made a statement directed at Palin's graphic:
"We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list; the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district (on her Facebook page in March '09). When people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."

Seems to me that Mrs. Giffords was tragically 100% correct.
Yes, an emotionally deranged or unstable young man pulled the trigger, but, make no mistake, I am pointing the finger for the shooting today directly at Sarah Palin and those who follow or support her brain-dead way of thinking.

I think anyone who fails to see the connection here is mentally inept or completely in denial.

Bad symbolism from those of heavy influence in combination with mentally unstable and gullible people makes for a scary and sadly, tragic consequence it would seem.

WoW! This thread is so full of /fail with all of the Leftist Paranoid CONSpiracy Theory rhetoric going around...

Forefather quotes:

"Those who would give up Liberty for a false sense of Security deserve neither Liberty or Security" In other words, I'd rather deal with the EXTREMELY RARE CHANCE OF BEING SHOT (more likely to be killed in an auto accident) Than to allow a Gaggle of Gestapo Goons (Liberals and their Military/Police State Control Grids) dictate every facet of my life, my childs lives etc. Or any other inconvenience for that matter before exchanging my Freedom.

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants" Now if you don't understand this one, you're a lost cause...seriously. This includes all of the little Napoleons running around calling for the Police Nanny State to suckle and hold their <Too Weak> /rear.

"It's good to have a r3VOLution every Generation" Simply put, without a Revolution of new ideas every generation, society becomes lackadaisical and ignorant. If you think a Revolution is all about Anarchy in the streets, Road Warrior stuff then you're totally wrong!

Here is "THEIR" Revolution against "US" (the little people like you and me, aka the slave class)Well, some Slaves are definately more slave like than others. THEIR Revolution, not yours...

Here is how they did it to you! Hey look it's in cartoon format and it's fun to watch /cheer! The American Dream

Old Black & White classic of 1934. Enjoy! \(^_^)/
The House of Rothschild (Red Shield) 1934

Here is their plan for Humanity just in case you forgot. Welcome to your New Prison

Eco Fascists (NAZI 4th Reich) calls for "Elite Warrior Leadership" aka 3rd and final Anti Christ.
You Liberals are just so impatient aint ya

And to think that people wonder why this young patsy did what he did? He shows all the signs of a patsy and yet you CONspiracy Theorists still think he thought it all up without the Alphabet Soup? LoL!

Definition of a False Flag

*awaits more Drama Llama reasons why humanity should commit slow suicide while living on a Prison Planet*

Your insane and paranoid political rhetoric in combination with your less than lucid avatar is of great concern.

Damn Luz and I agreeing on something, what is the world coming to?

Case's like this have to involve a gunman to fit into the shooting tragedy scenario. I'd rather be shot then stabbed, its less painful, less dangerous and easier to treat assuming you survive. But I'm all for out lawing guns so long as the government gives theirs up first.

Oh look, it's that Alex Jones BS again ...

Well, you're right. The fact that your answer is simple doesn't make it less valuable or less relevant.
Yes, if the gunman in Arizona today had been able to think "I would not like it if someone randomly shot me in the head, therefore I will not do that to him/her" then, yeah, today's tragedy probably would not have happened.

But that's just it. Humans are flawed, inherently. Even if we conjecture that MOST people are capable of following the "golden rule" (which is likely an erroneous presumption) there will still be some who are incapable of following it.

And frankly, that's how and why modern laws started to be codified.
To control and/or prevent aberrant, abhorrent, and/or dangerous behaviors from adversely affecting other citizens who have committed no foul.

And that's what we have here. Dangerous citizens, with dangerous ideas, exacting petty personally-motivated vendettas by slaying other citizens who are entitled, by law to live freely without being punished or injured or killed randomly without cause.

Yes, as some have pointed out, there are ways to kill people besides guns, and there are ways to obtain guns other than legitimate gun vendors.

BUT YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
FAILURE TO ACT CREATES THE PRECEDENT THAT PUBLIC RANDOM KILLINGS ARE ACCEPTABLE AND TOLERABLE.
THEY ARE CLEARLY NOT ACCEPTABLE AND TOLERABLE, SO SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.

And, as much as I would love to be naive and innocent enough to believe that the "Golden Rule" alone will solve this crisis, I am simply not that naive, and frankly I doubt you are that naive. If you are, my condolences.

So, back to my original point, if 2nd Amendment advocates fail to relax their stance and are unable to help produce an effective compromise to bolster firearms control, and therefore MORE events like today's Arizona shooting continue to occur, the government WILL fight back eventually, there WILL be a breaking point ... and the "Police State" so many conservatives and gun-owners fear will become a reality. Ironically, they will have brought it on themselves.

Oh Look it's someone with NO PROOF and more of the same Rhetoric again...

You have no proof. Go back to being a sheep following the conspiratorial crowd.

This is the first I have seen or heard of this. While in hindsight I think the graphical choice of using cross-hairs vs a target was a mistake. It in no way says to me that violence should be perpetrated against anyone on the targeted list. Only that they were targeted for removal from office. Someone with violent tendencies and an unstable mind might see something beyond though.

How often is the term "I had it in my sights" used for some sort of goal that one is close to achieving? Had SP used a target instead and GG door been also shot then would have the huge retail chain then changed its branding? Can you honestly, and logically say that SP wished physical harm up to and including death on her parties political rivals? And then would you also argue that she publicly post such a hit on a social media site?

The answer probably lies in the aftermath of the shooting of GG office. Did SP at least take down the graphic? Did SP publicly apologize for any part she may have played to help incite violence?

Phyrexius, if you believe this incident in Arizona was a "False Flag", you are a very sadly deluded, jaded, and likely mentally handicapped, individual.


Exactly.

stop overreacting, if the "Police state" happens, they'll get overturned, tyranny never wins.

Holy *** are you for real?

I love the "Well if we make x illegal people that were going to do it anyway will just do it illegally" argument.

If that argument actually proved anything we could decriminalize just about every crime.

Make murder legal, cause the people who really want to murder someone are going to do it anyway.

Make rape legal, cause the people who really want to rape someone are going to do it anyway.

Make fraud legal, cause the people who really want to make ponzi schemes are going to do it anyway.

See how ridiculous it sounds? The current gun control laws don't work, and I as a country boy who loves his guns wouldn't have any problem signing some extra paper work to make sure the next Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't shoot those close to me.

After all protecting those close to you is what the whole 2nd amendment is about. Conceal carry goes a long way, but prevention would be the wisest course of action.

As long as there is evil in the hearts of man things like this will happen. Bickering over if this guy is right or left teaparty or democrat is irrelevant I think we are all in agreement the guy is a lunatic extremist who doesn't share the views of any major political or social party. Pointing fingers will not undo this tragedy.

I don't see the parallel between laws stating possession and lawful use of said item is legal/illegal and stealing/raping/murdering is okay because you're going to do it anyway. Owning a gun is not inherently dangerous/detrimental to society. It's what you do with it.

By your logic, because people can drink and drive, we shouldn't give them the opportunity to purchase alcohol.

You can say I'm overreacting. You could have probably also said that Representative Giffords was overreacting when she denounced Sarah Palin's Facebook graphic featuring the cross-hairs.

Look how that turned out.

Tyranny is far from ideal. But so is what happened today in Arizona. You can stick your head underground and deny the possibility if you want, Jet, but I'm telling you, the issue of politically-motivated violence and murder is coming to a head in the USA.

There is ZERO point in holding a democratic election to vote people into representative office if citizens can just murder that representative because they feel like it.

Change is coming, and it's probably gonna be exactly the opposite of the changes sought by the "Tea Party", unless they cease their inflammatory and hyperbolic rhetoric immediately.

If you can't play nice and share with others, you're gonna get your toys taken away from you.

And the "parents" in this analogy is the federal government. Make no mistake, if citizens (the "children" in this analogy) keep abusing their privileges, the parents WILL start taking away toys, until the behavior is corrected.

And whether you believe gun control laws will "work" or not, guns WILL be on the list of "toys" that get taken away.

I would vote you into office. Well said.

won't happen and quite frankly I find democracy to be a failed system, as for Sarah Palin, she should be shot.

If you think that this is new to humanity or at least new since the invention of guns then you are naive and you have my condolences.


Something has been done, just as it has been since the beginning of crime... Punishment of the criminal. Other than what I suggested that is the only thing we can do.



To believe that by posting about the golden rule and then expect world peace would soon follow would be naive, but by following the golden rule in my life I create no violence in my world and so can you in yours. That is fact not naivety. As we expand our influence perhaps others will do the same.



Back to my point, this is highly unlikely to happen. You would have to change the constitution by 3/4 of all state governments ratifying it or their would be cessation by the more than 13 states that would refuse to ratify it. I cannot see either happening. If the actual assassination of one of the more loved presidents didn't do it I can't see the shooting of a congresswoman doing anything, but creating rumblings.

You're probably stocking up on diesel fuel and fertilizer aren't you?

Gonna take back the US of A from the hands of the NWO one Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building at a time right?

I'd laugh but I really do fear for what this guy is like in real life D: