Dnc And /nin Enfeebles

I will admit that I am a proponent of unusual/unconventional builds that work.

I think the major stipulations in this scenario is:

1) Sticking /NIN enfeebles at least 75-80% of the time with a duration of at least 2 minutes

2) Not needing a heavy setup time in order to reach desired levels of MACC to stick said enfeebles for this duration

If you can pull those two off and feel comfortable that you are not gimping yourself in other areas, then go for it ^_^

that's exactly what i hope for, perhaps at most presto-step to help it but if i can make it reliable on a suitable amount of mobs i'd like to make it common practice. kurayami seems to be incredibly easy to land probably just because it's a T2 ninjutsu, the question remains is how well i can make para and slow stick especially since they are just ichi spells.

completed nebula set and got artemis medal, still havent merited ninjutsu quite yet. but the 3 nin enfeebles are actually quite reliable on most mobs inside abyssea, i've easily para/blind EE and attowha moth to name some major ones the only things i rarely land any enfeebles on are undead type mobs which is to be expected anyways. i've also managed to magic burst blind in a self sc many times.

all in all: /nin enfeebles are quite doable now and in most cases does not require stutter step to land them at roughly 70% rate and they last a decent amount of time as well.

Is this with or without a MACC atma?

without, using impregniable tower for when im tanking does increase the rate to near 100% though

How much MACC are you using in gear? It seems impossible to me. Your land rate on NMs in abyssea /NIN with no MACC+ should be floored at 5% even with ninjutsu merits (and it is, I watch people try to land kurayami: ni /NIN all the time on light/dark/firesday while NMs harass me from behind). Assumning your hit rate were mathematically 5% and not just floored there, you'd need 90 macc to hit 50% success rate and another 20 to hit a 70% rate. Seeing as full Nebula is 25 macc and Artemis's Medal is 10 at best. That leaves Balrahn's ring (+4), Omega ring (+3) ( Miseria ring is probably out of the question for most due to the latent being triggered at 50% MP or less and doesn't work at 0/0 MP (would be easier to deal with if NQ nebula didn't give -MP))., Incubus earrings +1 (+6), and Sturm's report (+2), so the max MACC DNC can relaly get from gear is +50, which would make the hit rate for Ninjutsu ~30% assuming the base hit rate is at 5%. There's either:

1.) Something else going on here. I.E. Ninjutsu has boosted hit rates.
2.) Our understanding of MACC and MEVA is flawed. As it stands, "actual" 5% hit rate occurs at Target_MEVA - 90 (antyhing less than this is floored to 5%). A level 90 player has approximately 315 MEVA (supposed to be like a C+ skill or something like that), so 5% hit rate would occur at 225 MACC and start increasing from there.
3.) You're overestimating your hit rate.

That said, the only place I see /nin enfeebles really worth using is Kurayami: Ni, as it's stronger in potency than any blind effect a mage is likely to cast and casts quickly.

def going to try this today with Merciless Matriach. just cause the fast fast would be nice for ichi casting. is the MACC about the same from the two atmas?

Hmmmm that's kinda nifty... sometimes have to set hp on thf wonder if I could land them then myself too

I am also skeptical and would like to see your sets. I use Omega's/Balrahn's/Artemis' Medal for Violent Flourish and whenever I try to stick Kurayami: Ni for Grellow proc, and I'm on the freaking 5% floor with Kurayami for sure. The difference between 5% and 70% isn't a few pieces of Nebula gear.

it's just artemis medal and nebula set. no im not over estimating, it's far more often than 5%.

I'm not saying you're at 5%. I'm sure with a reasonable amount of MACC you can push it above 5%.

I'm saying 70% has to be a gross overestimate, just based on how MACC works to increase magic hit rate.

Perhaps you aren't counting all the macc? I mean she's proably getting quite a bit from dint too. On top of the straight macc from atmas and gear

more often than not im using RR GH apoc, and for when im tanking i use RR apoc and impregnable tower. are you including int in your macc calculation?

Ok I'm seriously doubting your hitting 70% without atma or step help help... at least on those NMs... maybe EPs maybe even then it shouldn't be easy

Well, the melee accuracy floor is actually 20%. For some reason we have been saying 5%.

That said, I don't think I have seen a 20% land rate with my Kurayami: Ni casts when trying to proc Grellow, Magic Bursted or not. I've wasted a lot of Sairui-ran trying to land that crap. I'll try it some more tonight probably.

Magic are weird. The 5% is for you to fully land it. That's not including half resist and such. Most debuffs have a 1/2 resist so most have a ~9% chance to not be resisted I think

OK, let's estimate ~100 for a NM's int in abyssea. I really have no idea what to estimate there, but it doesn't seem high for a NM anyway (probably low, if you ask me). 90DNC45NIN/Mithra has 69 int, unless JPs on your server are particularly active in the zone for the day, +40 int from cruor buffs/all furtherance abyssites.

For kicks, we'll even give the NM the MEVA of a LV90 player, so 315ish skill...which translates into what 403 MEVA?, And this is supposed to be without MACC atma, so we're not adding anything from that.

Macc = Magic skill + Contribution from gear/merits + contribution from stats

Ninjutsu Skill at level 45 is 138. Let's be nice and throw in 8 merits for 154 and assume that the DNC is wearing +50 in Macc, which is just about the best you can get from gear.

In this case dINT is +9 so that's +9 macc, if I'm calculating that correctly.

Macc = 154 + 50 + 9 = 213.

5% hit rate occurs at 310 total Macc.
75% hit rate occurs at 428 total Macc.

Anyway, this is all using hypothetical inputs so it's not really a good example, but get me some exact values for INT and MEva for an Abyssea NM and then it's easy to figure out for sure.

landed paralyze 4/5 times and blind 2/2 times (rr gh apoc) on this:



para twice and blind 1/2 (rr impreg apoch) fight didnt last long:



small sample im aware, went to work on popsets for the coarse NM in attowha and not a single nin debuff landed on undead/ghost/coarse, the hound was quite susceptible though.

Unfortunately there are little to no values of Meva for most mobs. Mostly because mobs don't have a set Meva value but different values to different elements and even sometimes to specific spells or lines of spells. So pretty much the only ones that have Meva values for are the ones that were used for testing to come up with said formulas...

As far as this landing /nin debuffs all I can think of is either they inadvertantly boosted macc when they did the added dmg update from skill... or somehow mobs inherently have rediculously Meva vs them. I mean ***we have trouble landing threnodies with 790 brds that haven't skilled up since 75 if they don't /blm just for proccing lol

As for Itzpapalotl, the Wamoura family is weak to ice (supposedly).

Eve is 80Cap content and it's most likely lower than level 90, so you're probably getting a bonus due to level correction.

**not to mention the macc atma.

Someone should run out and test this non-dnc/NIN with the same atmas.

perhaps, are you only considering hero's NMs in your previous calculations? i have actually not yet test /nin debuffs in the new zones since i got full nebula, i'd imagine i'd see similar rates though since i was already able to blind amarok and tablillia without nebula.

Wouldn't even need any atmas since she says usually doesn't use any pertinent ones unless tanking

Amarok isn't particularly resistant to anything, although it usually takes 6-7 casts for our BLU/NIN trigger *** to land Kurayami on Amarok, and he's using Minikin Monstrosity atma and has higher base INT on top of that, so he should have much higher MACC than a DNC.

then i suppose the vibe im getting is that i need to be able to stick debuffs and T3 mega bosses in order to be worthwhile, considering what you have named off on the 3 mobs i have mentioned is pretty common through out abyssea.

Actually, I'm just trying to figure out what JP button you're using to get such a high landing rate, because I'd like to land Kurayami: Ni without devoting 19 inventory slots taking up an atma slot I could devote to something better.

Edit: By land I don't mean "eventually." You have no idea how much I hate standing with my back turned while a BLU and BRD mule try to land Kurayami and threnody.

there is no easy button on my client unfortunately (would love to have it though) im saying it like it is, nebula set and artemis medal, was also using miseria ring but according to you 0/0 mp doesnt work, for some reason i got the idea that 0 mp out of 0 mp is considered 0% mp. the atma is pretty standard for me since alot of NMs lately like to dish out 2k dmg attacks and follow up with a double attack melee or what have you, and having a 95% for sure stick rate on violent flourish is nothing for me to over look (then again i probably have it without tower). im not saying that it works on the higher tier mobs that can be left for nin mains or mages that should be with you anyways, but i also found out from our local NINs that they have an easy stick rate with only 250ish ninjutsu skill and nothing in the means of atma/gear to help stick.

I bought some Nebula Slops/Cuffs +1. I've been meaning to do it to test the Fast Cast anyway. The new Utsusemi neck and the new Fast Cast gear (Nebula HQ Body/Hands/Legs) with Loquacious may potentially let us cast Ichi reliably between monster swings.

Anyway, the new gear should give me moderately comparable set to yours if I un-store it.

Blah, I really wish we had about 100 active inventory.

The MND+ on Miseria Ring's latent makes it easy to check if it works (I bought it too thinking it would work, but sold it back).

I virtually never use Impregnable tower atma, though. My atma choice goes like this:


1.) Do I need to resist death? Yes: Cloak and Dagger, No ---> 2.)

2.) Am I going to me ramsacked by damage of a specific element? (Orthrus + Dragua + Dhormke Khimaira say hi) Yes---> +100 resist atma (with barspell you have +245 resist, which is enough to mitigate most of the damage) of that element. No ---> 3.)

3.) Is the NM particularly evasive (Indrik)? Yes.) ---> Atma of the Sand Emperor (in my experience the acc/evasion on this are higher than C+D) No ---> 4.)

4.) Atma of the Apocalypse

I haven't needed more than the 2600 - 3000 HP I have with just cruor buffs since I finished my MDT set.

tell me about it, i ended up having to sell my staves for my sch and be a gimp with a 4th mace (siriti can i have it?)

amusing note we had a 90whm/29brd with us last night and he landed horde lullaby 2 out of 2 times on our blu that got charmed by the coarse, i'd assume brd skills work similarly. (was pretty amusing since we didnt have sleepga ready-to-use so we tried to burn his shadows, i ended up blinding him and the whm dia'd him like a goof)