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Ignorance taken to the next level.
 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-12-06 14:16:03
[. Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: not liking the spread of ignorance/stupidity DOES NOT make me a bigot, but you're too stupid to understand that and as to your lolthread nobody was offended by that, it just proves that you're a *** dumbass and we get a good chuckle out of it. Where is the logic? Excelior doesn't bring logic to the table, and the logic is in that the disallowing of ignorance/stupidity is indeed the exact opposite of being a bigot. On another note, I'm hungry.  Funny that you value logic so much, yet I've never seen you use it. You talk ***but you never use a rational argument. Perhaps you don't use logic at all. oh the logic is there, you just don't comprehend it, no religious person ever could (they are ignorant of logic)
Funny, I never once said I was religious. I said that I will continue to voice my opinion defending those who you attack for being different. No form of deductive or inductive argument can lead to the conclusion that I am religious. Please use either logic or reading comprehension.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:32:01
hows your hero doing lately?
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-06 14:36:26
Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
By Dubont 2010-12-06 14:37:34
Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: @ Excelior: you are saying, to summarize, that we shouldn't shove our anti-religious thoughts down the throats of the religious. While you are right, the religious should not shove their beliefs down OUR throats. Requiring prayer in schools, requiring the phrase "Under God" in the pledge. Trying to change history by saying that the founding fathers were Christian. I probably wouldn't have a problem with any of this if it was geared towards many religions, but instead, all of this is geared towards "God," the Christian "God." Need I post a video that shows religious violence? You say that the news only covers the bad about religion. They do the same to atheists, but this video that I'm about to show you is something that I've actually seen a lot of, especially when I was in high school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h7ekCD6uE4 Also, here is yet another video that depicts some of the religious extremists at work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gri0d8In5iE Now, am I saying that all religious people are like those in the video above? No, but it is the majority, especially here in the south. For example, two weeks ago, I was walking to class. A street preacher stopped me and asked me to put my hand on the Bible and pray that God remove my sins. When I respectfully declined by saying "I really need to get to class," the man began screaming at me and just flat out making a fool of himself. Others quickly joined in. If this keeps up, we could have another Civil War on our hands, or worse, a repeat of the Salem witch trials...only instead of witches, it will be free thinking people who even so much as question faith in "God," not a god, but THE Christian "God." tl;dr: Watch the videos and tell me how that is supposed to be "God's" love... Once again you are confusing the few for the many. I really don't think that "one nation under god" and "in god we trust" is hurting anyone. If you believe that it is then I guess we're just going to have to disagree. However, you have to realize that since it's been on our money for 200 years that it is also culturally significant. This is one of those freedoms of speech which you just tolerate because it isn't hurting you or anyone else. Pick your battles etc. While it may not be directly hurting anyone, it is a violation of the Constitution to require the use of any religious material. We are also not "one nation under God" because we were not founded upon the idea of a God. This nation was founded on ideas of freedom. "in god we trust" isn't as big of a problem, to me, because I rarely see it AND it isn't really a violation to print it on the money since the government doesn't print the money BUT it is a violation for the government to require us to use that money for the goods that we need for survival. Again, it may not be hurting anyone, but it is a violation of our rights and the Constitution.
Quoting the constitution is irrelevent because it is not the basis of your arguement. If I passed an amendment to the constitution saying that MUST be part of everyone's life would you support it? No, you would not. Why? Because you don't agree with it. The constitution is just a piece of paper, in the end it comes down to your own ideology. If you want to base your opinion upon rational conclusions as to the benefits and disadvantages of the presence of god in American life than please do so. Otherwise you have no "real" argument.
Sir, you may see the Constitution as just another piece of paper, but I see the Bible as nothing more than a fairy tale. Where they differ, however, is the the founding fathers were real and did exist, but back to my argument. The Constitution set forth the laws and regulations of this country. When an amendment is made, it is made to the Constitution. If the Constitution is "just a piece of paper," by your logic, it should be perfectly fine to own slaves. It should be perfectly fine to kill. It should be perfectly fine to tax any amount of money from any individual person. By your logic, sir, it is perfectly fine for the government to set down a strict religion and destroy all those who oppose it. Sir, the Constitution is keeping you, me and the rest of the people in this country alive.
Without the Constitution, there is no country. Without the Constitution, there is no law. Without the Constitution, there is NOTHING that is keeping my state from invading your state. Sir, there is nothing that is preventing the slaughter of millions in another Civil War without the Constitution. To reject the Constitution is treason in itself. So, sir, I ask you, do you like committing treason?
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:38:42
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:42:42
Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: @ Excelior: you are saying, to summarize, that we shouldn't shove our anti-religious thoughts down the throats of the religious. While you are right, the religious should not shove their beliefs down OUR throats. Requiring prayer in schools, requiring the phrase "Under God" in the pledge. Trying to change history by saying that the founding fathers were Christian. I probably wouldn't have a problem with any of this if it was geared towards many religions, but instead, all of this is geared towards "God," the Christian "God." Need I post a video that shows religious violence? You say that the news only covers the bad about religion. They do the same to atheists, but this video that I'm about to show you is something that I've actually seen a lot of, especially when I was in high school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h7ekCD6uE4 Also, here is yet another video that depicts some of the religious extremists at work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gri0d8In5iE Now, am I saying that all religious people are like those in the video above? No, but it is the majority, especially here in the south. For example, two weeks ago, I was walking to class. A street preacher stopped me and asked me to put my hand on the Bible and pray that God remove my sins. When I respectfully declined by saying "I really need to get to class," the man began screaming at me and just flat out making a fool of himself. Others quickly joined in. If this keeps up, we could have another Civil War on our hands, or worse, a repeat of the Salem witch trials...only instead of witches, it will be free thinking people who even so much as question faith in "God," not a god, but THE Christian "God." tl;dr: Watch the videos and tell me how that is supposed to be "God's" love... Once again you are confusing the few for the many. I really don't think that "one nation under god" and "in god we trust" is hurting anyone. If you believe that it is then I guess we're just going to have to disagree. However, you have to realize that since it's been on our money for 200 years that it is also culturally significant. This is one of those freedoms of speech which you just tolerate because it isn't hurting you or anyone else. Pick your battles etc. While it may not be directly hurting anyone, it is a violation of the Constitution to require the use of any religious material. We are also not "one nation under God" because we were not founded upon the idea of a God. This nation was founded on ideas of freedom. "in god we trust" isn't as big of a problem, to me, because I rarely see it AND it isn't really a violation to print it on the money since the government doesn't print the money BUT it is a violation for the government to require us to use that money for the goods that we need for survival. Again, it may not be hurting anyone, but it is a violation of our rights and the Constitution.
Quoting the constitution is irrelevent because it is not the basis of your arguement. If I passed an amendment to the constitution saying that MUST be part of everyone's life would you support it? No, you would not. Why? Because you don't agree with it. The constitution is just a piece of paper, in the end it comes down to your own ideology. If you want to base your opinion upon rational conclusions as to the benefits and disadvantages of the presence of god in American life than please do so. Otherwise you have no "real" argument.
Sir, you may see the Constitution as just another piece of paper, but I see the Bible as nothing more than a fairy tale. Where they differ, however, is the the founding fathers were real and did exist, but back to my argument. The Constitution set forth the laws and regulations of this country. When an amendment is made, it is made to the Constitution. If the Constitution is "just a piece of paper," by your logic, it should be perfectly fine to own slaves. It should be perfectly fine to kill. It should be perfectly fine to tax any amount of money from any individual person. By your logic, sir, it is perfectly fine for the government to set down a strict religion and destroy all those who oppose it. Sir, the Constitution is keeping you, me and the rest of the people in this country alive.
Without the Constitution, there is no country. Without the Constitution, there is no law. Without the Constitution, there is NOTHING that is keeping my state from invading your state. Sir, there is nothing that is preventing the slaughter of millions in another Civil War without the Constitution. To reject the Constitution is treason in itself. So, sir, I ask you, do you like committing treason?
the guy is an idiot you're wasting your time with this, but I feel ya. He and his traitorous hero both believe the constitution is nothing, and both should be jailed for acts of and plotting treason.
As for the *** religions presence in the world today (even if you want to argue it can do good things (although many of these good things would probably still happen with religion being absent, can't be proven though just a thought) the damage it's done to humanity and the world is far too high to justify any good it's done, and the line of thinking that allows religion in itself to exists holds back the evolution of society and mankind.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2010-12-06 14:45:24
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ... I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith.
Blind your such an idiot. Jet has single handidly pointed out that Gregor Mendel was obviously a fake monk and probably wore the tunic for halloween one year and forgot to take it off. Seriously, he did his own research a while back, read a couple of things, and thats what it said. Your arguement has been clearly shot to pieces...
By Dubont 2010-12-06 14:45:26
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. actually...I'm just going to say something real quick, you can be completely religious and scientific at the same time? Why? Well, In calculus 2, we were taught about the Infinite possibility theory. There can be a 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% chance for something to happen, but there is no guarantee that it WILL happen/is true. In contrast, there can be a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance that something isn't possible/cannot be true, but there is no absolute guarantee the it CAN'T happen. This is where the idea of "Nothing is impossible but not everything is possible" comes from.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-12-06 14:48:19
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: hows your hero doing lately?
See. Unable to make a rational argument. You're just a troll.
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ... I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith.
This is somewhat accurate. A scientist does not exclude any possibility no matter how far fetched. However, a scientists uses systematic methods to prove his or her ideas. TRUE scientists therefore must believe in the possiblity of God. They just can't use it as an explaination without proof. Anyone who says that they are 100% sure that God does not exist is ignorant. The truth is we are unable to know at the moment and such a claim would be rediculous. The moment science gains a concensus on any subject is when progress can no longer be made.
Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: @ Excelior: you are saying, to summarize, that we shouldn't shove our anti-religious thoughts down the throats of the religious. While you are right, the religious should not shove their beliefs down OUR throats. Requiring prayer in schools, requiring the phrase "Under God" in the pledge. Trying to change history by saying that the founding fathers were Christian. I probably wouldn't have a problem with any of this if it was geared towards many religions, but instead, all of this is geared towards "God," the Christian "God." Need I post a video that shows religious violence? You say that the news only covers the bad about religion. They do the same to atheists, but this video that I'm about to show you is something that I've actually seen a lot of, especially when I was in high school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h7ekCD6uE4 Also, here is yet another video that depicts some of the religious extremists at work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gri0d8In5iE Now, am I saying that all religious people are like those in the video above? No, but it is the majority, especially here in the south. For example, two weeks ago, I was walking to class. A street preacher stopped me and asked me to put my hand on the Bible and pray that God remove my sins. When I respectfully declined by saying "I really need to get to class," the man began screaming at me and just flat out making a fool of himself. Others quickly joined in. If this keeps up, we could have another Civil War on our hands, or worse, a repeat of the Salem witch trials...only instead of witches, it will be free thinking people who even so much as question faith in "God," not a god, but THE Christian "God." tl;dr: Watch the videos and tell me how that is supposed to be "God's" love... Once again you are confusing the few for the many. I really don't think that "one nation under god" and "in god we trust" is hurting anyone. If you believe that it is then I guess we're just going to have to disagree. However, you have to realize that since it's been on our money for 200 years that it is also culturally significant. This is one of those freedoms of speech which you just tolerate because it isn't hurting you or anyone else. Pick your battles etc. While it may not be directly hurting anyone, it is a violation of the Constitution to require the use of any religious material. We are also not "one nation under God" because we were not founded upon the idea of a God. This nation was founded on ideas of freedom. "in god we trust" isn't as big of a problem, to me, because I rarely see it AND it isn't really a violation to print it on the money since the government doesn't print the money BUT it is a violation for the government to require us to use that money for the goods that we need for survival. Again, it may not be hurting anyone, but it is a violation of our rights and the Constitution. Quoting the constitution is irrelevent because it is not the basis of your arguement. If I passed an amendment to the constitution saying that MUST be part of everyone's life would you support it? No, you would not. Why? Because you don't agree with it. The constitution is just a piece of paper, in the end it comes down to your own ideology. If you want to base your opinion upon rational conclusions as to the benefits and disadvantages of the presence of god in American life than please do so. Otherwise you have no "real" argument. Sir, you may see the Constitution as just another piece of paper, but I see the Bible as nothing more than a fairy tale. Where they differ, however, is the the founding fathers were real and did exist, but back to my argument. The Constitution set forth the laws and regulations of this country. When an amendment is made, it is made to the Constitution. If the Constitution is "just a piece of paper," by your logic, it should be perfectly fine to own slaves. It should be perfectly fine to kill. It should be perfectly fine to tax any amount of money from any individual person. By your logic, sir, it is perfectly fine for the government to set down a strict religion and destroy all those who oppose it. Sir, the Constitution is keeping you, me and the rest of the people in this country alive. Without the Constitution, there is no country. Without the Constitution, there is no law. Without the Constitution, there is NOTHING that is keeping my state from invading your state. Sir, there is nothing that is preventing the slaughter of millions in another Civil War without the Constitution. To reject the Constitution is treason in itself. So, sir, I ask you, do you like committing treason?
The people who wrote the bible are real as well. Maybe they claimed their inspiration was from God. I think that's a moot point. Better to have an inspiration than none at all. The constitution for all purposes is simply a piece of paper void of meaning. You choose to believe in it because you feel that is the best way to organize your life and society. Some religious people feel the Bible is the best method. Obviously, the Bible is obsolete for the organization of society but it is still a tool for some people. If you agree with the power of the constitution you MUST agree with the Bible. They are both simply the belief that something is the "best" way of organizing society/life. There is no concrete value assigned to either. Subjective Perception.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2010-12-06 14:50:18
inb4
your ignornant/stupid end of story.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-06 14:50:39
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:53:41
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno)
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:54:28
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno)
simply put a man of science (or woman) would never have blind faith in anything, it goes against the principles of science.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2010-12-06 14:54:47
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ... I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
Cool story bro. But Jet logic makes you wrong the minute your finger hit the first key on the keyboard. You do realize for we've probably out typed Jet by about a paragraph per word he's typed in this thread?
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-06 14:55:20
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno) Yeah, except we still use his work today. Just about any beginning genetics class will go over Mendelian Genetics. Try again?
[+]
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2010-12-06 14:56:08
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ... I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that? if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno)
Jet whats your thoughts on Charles Darwin? You know he was religious too?
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-12-06 14:56:29
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ... I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that? if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno) simply put a man of science (or woman) would never have blind faith in anything, it goes against the principles of science.
So you believe in god then Jet? There is no conclusive proof that God doesn't exist. It would be blind faith to say that he does not. I am glad to see that you are now either religious or completely illogical.
By Dubont 2010-12-06 14:56:32
Phoenix.Excelior said:
The people who wrote the bible are real as well. Maybe they claimed their inspiration was from God. I think that's a moot point. Better to have an inspiration than none at all. The constitution for all purposes is simply a piece of paper void of meaning. You choose to believe in it because you feel that is the best way to organize your life and society. Some religious people feel the Bible is the best method. Obviously, the Bible is obsolete for the organization of society but it is still a tool for some people. If you agree with the power of the constitution you MUST agree with the Bible. They are both simply the belief that something is the "best" way of organizing society/life. There is no concrete value assigned to either. Subjective Perception.
I see what you are saying, but in this country, the Constitution is the law. The Bible is not. Religion was the law, once upon a time, and we saw what happened because of that. While both the Constitution and the Bible are nothing but ideas, one can see the rationality behind the Constitution a little more clearly than the Bible. Is the Constitution flawless? Absolutely not, which is why Amendments are constantly being made to keep up with the times. Is the Bible flawless? I will personally laugh in the face of anyone who says it is. We know who wrote the Constitution because we have the original Constitution, in English so there is no need for faulty translations. The Bible, on the other hands, is originally in Hebrew and the only way to properly translate the book would be to have someone who was of a neutral religion translate it. This is partly where the two differ.
By Dubont 2010-12-06 14:57:57
Dubont said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. actually...I'm just going to say something real quick, you can be completely religious and scientific at the same time? Why? Well, In calculus 2, we were taught about the Infinite possibility theory. There can be a 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% chance for something to happen, but there is no guarantee that it WILL happen/is true. In contrast, there can be a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance that something isn't possible/cannot be true, but there is no absolute guarantee the it CAN'T happen. This is where the idea of "Nothing is impossible but not everything is possible" comes from. Read this Jet, please.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2010-12-06 14:58:57
Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: The people who wrote the bible are real as well. Maybe they claimed their inspiration was from God. I think that's a moot point. Better to have an inspiration than none at all. The constitution for all purposes is simply a piece of paper void of meaning. You choose to believe in it because you feel that is the best way to organize your life and society. Some religious people feel the Bible is the best method. Obviously, the Bible is obsolete for the organization of society but it is still a tool for some people. If you agree with the power of the constitution you MUST agree with the Bible. They are both simply the belief that something is the "best" way of organizing society/life. There is no concrete value assigned to either. Subjective Perception. I see what you are saying, but in this country, the Constitution is the law. The Bible is not. Religion was the law, once upon a time, and we saw what happened because of that. While both the Constitution and the Bible are nothing but ideas, one can see the rationality behind the Constitution a little more clearly than the Bible. Is the Constitution flawless? Absolutely not, which is why Amendments are constantly being made to keep up with the times. Is the Bible flawless? I will personally laugh in the face of anyone who says it is. We know who wrote the Constitution because we have the original Constitution, in English so there is no need for faulty translations. The Bible, on the other hands, is originally in Hebrew and the only way to properly translate the book would be to have someone who was of a neutral religion translate it. This is partly where the two differ.
I'd beg to differ that the Bible isn't the law. Our laws pretty solidly follow Judeo-Christian morals/values.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 14:59:09
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. Gregor Mendel produced ground breaking science in genetics and was a monk. Thus proving that someone can be both truly religious and truly a scientist. Can we at least agree on that?
if he's religious then he doesn't require a fact for his belief, meaning he's not a real scientist, so no. Regardless of his achievements as a hack scientist (which as to how somebody can understand such logic and fail to understand the logical fallacy of a religion is beyond, maybe he was pretending for the age he was in just due to the fact it was the best way to get his work done, dunno) Yeah, except we still use his work today. Just about any beginning genetics class will go over Mendelian Genetics. Try again?
even if his work was sound, his logic was flawed, obviously.
Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-12-06 14:59:22
Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: The people who wrote the bible are real as well. Maybe they claimed their inspiration was from God. I think that's a moot point. Better to have an inspiration than none at all. The constitution for all purposes is simply a piece of paper void of meaning. You choose to believe in it because you feel that is the best way to organize your life and society. Some religious people feel the Bible is the best method. Obviously, the Bible is obsolete for the organization of society but it is still a tool for some people. If you agree with the power of the constitution you MUST agree with the Bible. They are both simply the belief that something is the "best" way of organizing society/life. There is no concrete value assigned to either. Subjective Perception. I see what you are saying, but in this country, the Constitution is the law. The Bible is not. Religion was the law, once upon a time, and we saw what happened because of that. While both the Constitution and the Bible are nothing but ideas, one can see the rationality behind the Constitution a little more clearly than the Bible. Is the Constitution flawless? Absolutely not, which is why Amendments are constantly being made to keep up with the times. Is the Bible flawless? I will personally laugh in the face of anyone who says it is. We know who wrote the Constitution because we have the original Constitution, in English so there is no need for faulty translations. The Bible, on the other hands, is originally in Hebrew and the only way to properly translate the book would be to have someone who was of a neutral religion translate it. This is partly where the two differ.
You have raised a good point. The ONLY reason the constitution still exists is because it is able to be amended and changed. I bet if the Bible could be edited into the views of most Christians today it would not be as violent/dividing.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-06 15:00:17
Phoenix.Excelior said:
So you believe in god then Jet? There is no conclusive proof that God doesn't exist. It would be blind faith to say that he does not. I am glad to see that you are now either religious or completely illogical.
I lol'd
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-06 15:00:38
I think Jet lives in a special world where scientists must apply the scientific method to every endeavor in life to be called a scientist.
A scientist must have blind faith in at least one thing to be a scientist. That one thing is called the scientific method.
[+]
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 15:01:21
Dubont said: Dubont said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: Oh cool, Jet is back. Maybe he can clear up that whole Gregor Mendel thing for me after all ...
I told you already a person cannot be truly religious and truly a scientist at the same time, it's not possible. Unless you can find a religion that actually has provable facts and isn't an exercise in blind faith. actually...I'm just going to say something real quick, you can be completely religious and scientific at the same time? Why? Well, In calculus 2, we were taught about the Infinite possibility theory. There can be a 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% chance for something to happen, but there is no guarantee that it WILL happen/is true. In contrast, there can be a 0.0000000000000000000001% chance that something isn't possible/cannot be true, but there is no absolute guarantee the it CAN'T happen. This is where the idea of "Nothing is impossible but not everything is possible" comes from. Read this Jet, please.
try to tell a mathematician that there's a possibility that something that doesn't pass the vertical line test is a function and he'll laugh in your face.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 15:02:03
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: I think Jet lives in a special world where scientists must apply the scientific method to every endeavor in life to be called a scientist.
A scientist must have blind faith in at least one thing to be a scientist. That one thing is called the scientific method.
scientific method is perfect, to say it requires faith is laughable.
By Dubont 2010-12-06 15:03:08
Phoenix.Excelior said: Dubont said: Phoenix.Excelior said: The people who wrote the bible are real as well. Maybe they claimed their inspiration was from God. I think that's a moot point. Better to have an inspiration than none at all. The constitution for all purposes is simply a piece of paper void of meaning. You choose to believe in it because you feel that is the best way to organize your life and society. Some religious people feel the Bible is the best method. Obviously, the Bible is obsolete for the organization of society but it is still a tool for some people. If you agree with the power of the constitution you MUST agree with the Bible. They are both simply the belief that something is the "best" way of organizing society/life. There is no concrete value assigned to either. Subjective Perception. I see what you are saying, but in this country, the Constitution is the law. The Bible is not. Religion was the law, once upon a time, and we saw what happened because of that. While both the Constitution and the Bible are nothing but ideas, one can see the rationality behind the Constitution a little more clearly than the Bible. Is the Constitution flawless? Absolutely not, which is why Amendments are constantly being made to keep up with the times. Is the Bible flawless? I will personally laugh in the face of anyone who says it is. We know who wrote the Constitution because we have the original Constitution, in English so there is no need for faulty translations. The Bible, on the other hands, is originally in Hebrew and the only way to properly translate the book would be to have someone who was of a neutral religion translate it. This is partly where the two differ.
You have raised a good point. The ONLY reason the constitution still exists is because it is able to be amended and changed. I bet if the Bible could be edited into the views of most Christians today it would not be as violent/dividing. Considering that Bible has been rewritten many times, I believe that it can amended, but I also believe that that would cause major problems with those who believe. Once everyone switched from Old Testament to New Testament, there were many riots that broke out due to the New Testament being "blasphemy" and "the work of the Devil" just because it's a little less violent and hellish. So, I think the Bible should be amended, at least to fix a couple of contradictions within it, but to do so would be to go against the faith for "God Himself wrote the Bible." We know he didn't, but that's the idea lol.
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-12-06 15:03:26
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ragnarok.Blindphleb said: I think Jet lives in a special world where scientists must apply the scientific method to every endeavor in life to be called a scientist.
A scientist must have blind faith in at least one thing to be a scientist. That one thing is called the scientific method.
scientific method is perfect, to say it requires faith is laughable. Scientific method is not perfect, to say otherwise is laughable.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-12-06 15:03:39
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Excelior said:
So you believe in god then Jet? There is no conclusive proof that God doesn't exist. It would be blind faith to say that he does not. I am glad to see that you are now either religious or completely illogical.
I lol'd
or you can just say there is no reason to believe he does or doesn't, but why add a god in the picture in the first place, you're either illogical or don't take a stance on the issue we don't know.
Religious people and people who claim there is no god at all are in the same boat on that.
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